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What's better? Allowing the Hamas government to fail and it to be "shitty" for a bit or killing tens of thousands of civilians and bombing everything to rubble?
Your point is preposterous.
International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII
- Thread starter Strychnine
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What's better? Allowing the Hamas government to fail and it to be "shitty" for a bit or killing tens of thousands of civilians and bombing everything to rubble?
Your point is preposterous.
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Your argument here is that Israel should have tightened the blockade after Hamas’ rise to power and prevented financial aid from entering Gaza.
You have done nothing but condemn the blockade for a year now. This doesn’t follow any consistent logic.
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"I can hold two contradictory views in my head simultaneously, as long as it always allows me to come to the same conclusion: Israel wrong."
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If your calling into question the death toll then really I think you have to do so with the view that its likely a gross underestimate.
Look at the devastation we've seen in the last year, look at the mass bombing, the snipers, months without proper sanitation, little or no healthcare, etc and your telling me that 98% of Gaza's population has survived that? Personally I would be shocked if the death toll is under 100K and I think theres potential it maybe FAR higher than that into the hundreds of thousands.
The reason we don't see the death toll questioned is not because of some anti Isreali bias in the media(as laughable as that should be anyway) its because theres a pro Isreali bias, they know the figure is a gross underestimate but they don't question it because it allows them to downplay Isreali war crimes.
I suspect the issue here as well is that Hamas probably has reason to downplay it as well, whilst they likely view Isreali atrocities as good PR for their cause on some level they also probably don't want the true scale of the death toll out there because it makes them look weak and unable to defend the population.
Look at the devastation we've seen in the last year, look at the mass bombing, the snipers, months without proper sanitation, little or no healthcare, etc and your telling me that 98% of Gaza's population has survived that? Personally I would be shocked if the death toll is under 100K and I think theres potential it maybe FAR higher than that into the hundreds of thousands.
The reason we don't see the death toll questioned is not because of some anti Isreali bias in the media(as laughable as that should be anyway) its because theres a pro Isreali bias, they know the figure is a gross underestimate but they don't question it because it allows them to downplay Isreali war crimes.
I suspect the issue here as well is that Hamas probably has reason to downplay it as well, whilst they likely view Isreali atrocities as good PR for their cause on some level they also probably don't want the true scale of the death toll out there because it makes them look weak and unable to defend the population.
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If you believe the death toll is this high, that's all the more reason to end the war ASAP.
So lets make sure Hamas releases 0,001% of the Israeli population to make this possible
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What CT are you accusing me of?Yes because Israeli Talking points include criticism of Israeli West Bank Settlers….Are you actually retarded?
So there it is. Hamas Apologism. Those corrupt settlers were too scary so they had to kill a bunch of random Israelis that had nothing to do with their oppression…That didn’t do squat for well being of Palestinians anywhere…This is such a retarded take, my god. You make @SammyPops look like a Nobel Laureate with his QAnon conspiracies.
The typical “capitalism” battle cry coupled with the Jihadist Apologism…Man, y’all tankie/commie loving cucks can’t think for yourselves and just default to every “west=bad” stance ever. You might as well do us all a favor and just fuck off to Iran…
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The reality is even if Hamas fully capitulates and returned the hostages and/or their bodies... The totally innocent children of Gaza who have never done anything wrong will continue to attack Israelis and other foreign aid workers working on reconstruction efforts and maintaining security during the process.
Everyone knows this is true. Only some people will admit it for some reason.
you are so full of shit.
yes, they had a menu that offered the option of hamas "failing" or killing tens of thousands of civilians back in 2018.......and you're the one throwing out words like "preposterous".
you STILL can't articulate how hamas would have simply "failed" or what "shitty" would have actually looked like.
YOU are exactly the person who would criticize israel for "occupation" of gaza and "poverty" and checkpoints while also blaming them for security lapses and allowing funding into gaza.
but hey, you've been calling israel a piece of shit country for over a decade here now. but i'm sure you'd have been cheering on israel blocking money and resources coming into gaza. lol.
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Well, i dont disagree.
We've seen alot of moral support to Hamas from Islamic nations.
I can only image they are jumping at the opportunity to be part of the rebuilding of Gaza and establishment of a bufferzone.
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when libya kills 11 million people and puts millions more in concentration camps, let me know.You know what’s uncanny. The same arguement can be made for the Nazis during WW2. Sure, they are guilty of the holocaust/being overall POS but they also reduced unemployment rates, enacted replenishment of infrastructure and similar sorts of things that you boast about Jihadist groups of being associated with doing too….
Employment and living standards - Life in Nazi Germany, 1933-1939 - Edexcel - GCSE History Revision - Edexcel - BBC Bitesize
Learn about and revise what life was like in Nazi Germany between 1933 and 1939 with this BBC Bitesize History (Edexcel) study guide.www.bbc.co.uk
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More women and children killed in Gaza by Israeli military than any other recent conflict in a single year – Oxfam
Published: 30th September 2024Israeli explosive weapons hit civilian infrastructure in Gaza - including schools, hospitals and aid distribution points - once every three hours
More women and children have been killed in Gaza by the Israeli military over the past year than the equivalent period of any other conflict over the past two decades, new Oxfam analysis has found.
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Nice fan fiction.
My argument is super simple. Don't help fund Hamas for years - because they're terrorists. Which is exactly what Netanyahu's regime did including sometimes getting the IDF to personally escort the suitcases of cash into Gaza.
All you gasliighters and excuse makers can't escape that very inconvenient fact. Netanyahu's Israel helped keep Hamas afloat for years financially.
Quite pathetic that you can't admit FUNDING TERRORISTS FOR YEARS was a bad idea. This is what I mean when I say you Israeli supporters cannot admit one single thing they did wrong.
Blah blah. Bunch of excuse making bullshit. All your proclamations of how Hamas must be destroyed at all costs kind of falls on deaf years when they've been literally helping to fund them.
Netanyahu sent Mossad head, general to Qatar, ‘begged’ it to pay Hamas
Liberman: Netanyahu sent Mossad head, general to Qatar, ‘begged’ it to pay Hamas
Yisrael Beytenu party leader says the pair were sent by PM two weeks ago to convince Doha not to end its money transfers to the Gaza-based terror group
www.timesofisrael.com
Yisrael Beytenu party leader says the pair were sent by PM two weeks ago to convince Doha not to end its money transfers to the Gaza-based terror group
Head of the Mossad Yossi Cohen speaks at a cyber conference at Tel Aviv University on June 24, 2019. (Flash90)
Mossad chief Yossi Cohen and the top officer of the Israel Defense Forces in charge of Gaza, Herzi Halevi, visited Qatar earlier this month on the instructions of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to plead with its leaders to continue their periodical payments to Hamas, Yisrael Beytenu party chief Avigdor Liberman claimed Saturday night.
Speaking to Channel 12 news, Liberman censured Netanyahu for having “begged” the Qataris to continue supporting the Gaza-based terror group.
“On Wednesday two weeks ago the head of Mossad… and the head of [IDF] Southern Command visit Qatar on an errand from Netanyahu, and they simply beg the Qataris to keep sending money to Hamas after March 30. The Qataris have said they will stop sending money on March 30,” Liberman said.
“Both Egypt and Qatar are angry with Hamas and planned to cut ties with them. Suddenly Netanyahu appears as the defender of Hamas, as though it was an environmental organization. This is a policy of submission to terror,” he said, adding that Israel was paying Hamas “protection money” to maintain the calm.
The Yisrael Beytenu leader has become a leading critic of Netanyahu’s, and twice frustrated Netanyahu’s efforts to form a majority coalition after elections last April and September. Israel goes to the polls for the third time in a year on March 2.
In the TV interview, Liberman also said that Netanyahu will seek a plea bargain after the elections, having been indicted for graft in three cases. The prime minister’s trial is set to start on March 17. Netanyahu “is not running in these elections in order to put a government together. He’s running in order [to strengthen his position] to seal a plea bargain,” said Liberman.
Prime Minister Netanyahu at the weekly cabinet meeting at the Prime Minister’s Office in Jerusalem, December 29, 2019. (Abir Sultan /Pool via AP)
With Israel’s approval, Qatar since 2018 has periodically provided millions of dollars in cash to Hamas to pay for fuel for the Strip’s power plant, allow the group to pay its civil servants and provide aid to tens of thousands of impoverished families.
Israel has reportedly done so in exchange for Hamas ensuring calm in the south and as part of efforts to reach a long-term ceasefire with the terror group.
Yisrael Beytenu party chairman Avigdor Liberman speaks during an event in Ashdod, southern Israel, on December 12, 2019. (Flash90)
Liberman, the former defense minister, has accused Netanyahu of paying protection money to Hamas in the past (despite the payments having started during his time in office).
The transfers were also opposed by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who has sought to pressure and weaken Hamas in Gaza.
Israel’s government has offered little information about the transfers.
Recently tensions along the border with Gaza have escalated due to an increase in rocket attacks and the use of helium balloons carrying explosives and incendiary devices into Israeli territory.
File: Israeli Southern Command chief Maj. Gen. Herzi Halevi in Jerusalem on November 2, 2015. (Flash90)
Palestinian terrorists in the Gaza Strip began sending clusters of balloons and kites into Israel laden with explosives beginning in 2018. The practice has waxed and waned over that time, but has picked up considerably in recent weeks, with dozens of such balloon-borne bombs landing in towns and farming communities adjacent to the Palestinian enclave.
Netanyahu said on Tuesday the military was planning a “big surprise” for Hamas if the terrorist group failed to rein in violence aimed at southern Israel, amid reports that Israel was contemplating the assassination of two senior Hamas leaders.
Lebanese Al-Akhbar newspaper reported Thursday that Hamas has warned Israel against any severe measures, saying the immediate response would be a rocket barrage on Tel Aviv.
Israel and Gaza have engaged in several sporadic rounds of violence over the last two years as the sides attempted to reach a long-term ceasefire.
The last major conflict between the two sides was during a fifty-day clash in 2014, dubbed by the IDF as “Operation Protective Edge.” During the fighting Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups in Gaza launched thousands of rockets into Israel, including at Tel Aviv and other central regions of the country.
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To be honest though the PLO have very little credibility as a government either, massively corrupt Israeli lapdogs which is why Hamas got into power in the first place, they were the only alternative to them as the Israelis had killed pretty much anyone else.
did you just plan to bombard with a wall of text and pictures to deflect away from the actual point?? lol. way to not address shit.Nice fan fiction.
My argument is super simple. Don't help fund Hamas for years - because they're terrorists. Which is exactly what Netanyahu's regime did including sometimes getting the IDF to personally escort the suitcases of cash into Gaza.
All you gasliighters and excuse makers can't escape that very inconvenient fact. Netanyahu's Israel helped keep Hamas afloat for years financially.
Quite pathetic that you can't admit FUNDING TERRORISTS FOR YEARS was a bad idea. This is what I mean when I say you Israeli supporters cannot admit one single thing they did wrong.
Blah blah. Bunch of excuse making bullshit. All your proclamations of how Hamas must be destroyed at all costs kind of falls on deaf years when they've been literally helping to fund them.
Netanyahu sent Mossad head, general to Qatar, ‘begged’ it to pay Hamas
Liberman: Netanyahu sent Mossad head, general to Qatar, ‘begged’ it to pay Hamas
Yisrael Beytenu party leader says the pair were sent by PM two weeks ago to convince Doha not to end its money transfers to the Gaza-based terror group
Yisrael Beytenu party leader says the pair were sent by PM two weeks ago to convince Doha not to end its money transfers to the Gaza-based terror group
Head of the Mossad Yossi Cohen speaks at a cyber conference at Tel Aviv University on June 24, 2019. (Flash90)
Mossad chief Yossi Cohen and the top officer of the Israel Defense Forces in charge of Gaza, Herzi Halevi, visited Qatar earlier this month on the instructions of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to plead with its leaders to continue their periodical payments to Hamas, Yisrael Beytenu party chief Avigdor Liberman claimed Saturday night.
Speaking to Channel 12 news, Liberman censured Netanyahu for having “begged” the Qataris to continue supporting the Gaza-based terror group.
“On Wednesday two weeks ago the head of Mossad… and the head of [IDF] Southern Command visit Qatar on an errand from Netanyahu, and they simply beg the Qataris to keep sending money to Hamas after March 30. The Qataris have said they will stop sending money on March 30,” Liberman said.
“Both Egypt and Qatar are angry with Hamas and planned to cut ties with them. Suddenly Netanyahu appears as the defender of Hamas, as though it was an environmental organization. This is a policy of submission to terror,” he said, adding that Israel was paying Hamas “protection money” to maintain the calm.
The Yisrael Beytenu leader has become a leading critic of Netanyahu’s, and twice frustrated Netanyahu’s efforts to form a majority coalition after elections last April and September. Israel goes to the polls for the third time in a year on March 2.
In the TV interview, Liberman also said that Netanyahu will seek a plea bargain after the elections, having been indicted for graft in three cases. The prime minister’s trial is set to start on March 17. Netanyahu “is not running in these elections in order to put a government together. He’s running in order [to strengthen his position] to seal a plea bargain,” said Liberman.
Prime Minister Netanyahu at the weekly cabinet meeting at the Prime Minister’s Office in Jerusalem, December 29, 2019. (Abir Sultan /Pool via AP)
With Israel’s approval, Qatar since 2018 has periodically provided millions of dollars in cash to Hamas to pay for fuel for the Strip’s power plant, allow the group to pay its civil servants and provide aid to tens of thousands of impoverished families.
Israel has reportedly done so in exchange for Hamas ensuring calm in the south and as part of efforts to reach a long-term ceasefire with the terror group.
Yisrael Beytenu party chairman Avigdor Liberman speaks during an event in Ashdod, southern Israel, on December 12, 2019. (Flash90)
Liberman, the former defense minister, has accused Netanyahu of paying protection money to Hamas in the past (despite the payments having started during his time in office).
The transfers were also opposed by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who has sought to pressure and weaken Hamas in Gaza.
Israel’s government has offered little information about the transfers.
Recently tensions along the border with Gaza have escalated due to an increase in rocket attacks and the use of helium balloons carrying explosives and incendiary devices into Israeli territory.
File: Israeli Southern Command chief Maj. Gen. Herzi Halevi in Jerusalem on November 2, 2015. (Flash90)
Palestinian terrorists in the Gaza Strip began sending clusters of balloons and kites into Israel laden with explosives beginning in 2018. The practice has waxed and waned over that time, but has picked up considerably in recent weeks, with dozens of such balloon-borne bombs landing in towns and farming communities adjacent to the Palestinian enclave.
Netanyahu said on Tuesday the military was planning a “big surprise” for Hamas if the terrorist group failed to rein in violence aimed at southern Israel, amid reports that Israel was contemplating the assassination of two senior Hamas leaders.
Lebanese Al-Akhbar newspaper reported Thursday that Hamas has warned Israel against any severe measures, saying the immediate response would be a rocket barrage on Tel Aviv.
Israel and Gaza have engaged in several sporadic rounds of violence over the last two years as the sides attempted to reach a long-term ceasefire.
The last major conflict between the two sides was during a fifty-day clash in 2014, dubbed by the IDF as “Operation Protective Edge.” During the fighting Hamas and other Palestinian terror groups in Gaza launched thousands of rockets into Israel, including at Tel Aviv and other central regions of the country.
but...................thx for the highlight:
With Israel’s approval, Qatar since 2018 has periodically provided millions of dollars in cash to Hamas to pay for fuel for the Strip’s power plant, allow the group to pay its civil servants and provide aid to tens of thousands of impoverished families.
Israel has reportedly done so in exchange for Hamas ensuring calm in the south and as part of efforts to reach a long-term ceasefire with the terror group.
now, continue with your derp derp "funding" and "collapse" and hamas "fail". like i said, you're so full of shit.
you can't even acknowledge that hamas was the elected government of gaza, or that they controlled everything that went on in gaza.
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Yea I do NOT BELIEVE Netanyahu's lies.
Because he's saying one thing in public and one thing in private. Nice try though... not. Stop repeating the same shit.
The prime minister also said that, “whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for” transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
He's literally stating here he's against a two state solution. He's AGAINST PEACE.
Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak - "Netanyahu created and financed Hamas."
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Hamas has been the governing administrative body in Gaza. “Not funding it” means preventing all forms of aid and commerce into the strip as everything is run by them. Bibi certainly saw it as politically beneficial to have division between Palestinian factions and particularly a Jihadist one which would reduce international legitimacy for Palestinian national aspirations but he wasn’t “derp fUNdiNg teRrorists, derp”. This is a disingenuous argument from you.
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"Preventing all forms of aid and commerce" is better than actually bombing the entire infrastructure to rubble and killing tens of thousands of people.
All your "humanitarian reasons" sounds like a load of horseshit because of Netanyahu's own words and actions.
Secondly, the Qatari cash payments agreement with Israel started because the PA stopped paying the salaries of Hamas workers. Not due to famine or anything like that. The primary reason was Netanyahu didn't want the collapse of the Hamas government.
Still can't admit allowing over a billion dollars into Hamas hands was a bad idea. Pathetic.
"Reduce international legitimacy for Palestinian national aspirations" = He wants to keep the Palestinians divided politically so they never get a chance for a two state solution. AKA he never wants peace.
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"Preventing all forms of aid and commerce" is better than actually bombing the entire infrastructure to rubble and killing tens of thousands of people.
All your "humanitarian reasons" sounds like a load of horseshit because of Netanyahu's own words and actions.
Secondly, the Qatari cash payments agreement with Israel started because the PA stopped paying the salaries of Hamas workers. Not due to famine or anything like that. The primary reason was Netanyahu didn't want the collapse of the Hamas government.
Still can't admit allowing over a billion dollars into Hamas hands was a bad idea. Pathetic.
"Reduce international legitimacy for Palestinian national aspirations" = He wants to keep the Palestinians divided politically so they never get a chance for a two state solution. AKA he never wants peace.
You’re deflecting from your stupid argument of “BIBI FUnDerED TERRoRIsTs - FUnD T3rrizm BaD!”
I see that you support an even stricter blockade than what Israel had previously applied though. Certainly interesting food for thought.
