International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Deleted member 585708]

Gotta disagree. It will only increase the deaths of innocents.

Israelis aren't going to lie down if they get by a worse October 7 ( nor should they )

Just be more of the same cycle at a increased rate

It's the risk they have to take.

Same can be said for Ukraine, they have no option but to try and force Russia to lay down arms.

Like Israel, they will not do that voluntarily.

Dealing with Putin and Netanyahu is outside the realms of logic.

 

[Anewt]

Confronting violent settlers in the occupied West Bank, together

In the hills of the West Bank, Palestinian shepherds and Israeli activists unite to face down settler violence.

www.bbc.com

Really good read

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Confronting violent settlers in the occupied West Bank, together

In the hills of the West Bank, Palestinian shepherds and Israeli activists unite to face down settler violence.

www.bbc.com

Really good read

I read that, it's well worth a read!

 

[Anewt]

It's the risk they have to take.

Same can be said for Ukraine, they have no option but to try and force Russia to lay down arms.

Like Israel, they will not do that voluntarily.

Dealing with Putin and Netanyahu is outside the realms of logic.

I don't think trying to force Israel. Or Russia. Or ukraine. Or hamas. Or Hezbollah by increasing the suffering of innocents and regular people will ever work..... the people making the decisions clearly don't give a fuck. ( to varying degrees)

Israel has been trying to force hamas to lay down its arms and has been since October 7th. They will not do that voluntarily.

So trying the same strategy back at Israel just seems like more of the same to me

 

[Deleted member 585708]

I don't think trying to force Israel. Or Russia. Or ukraine. Or hamas. Or Hezbollah by increasing the suffering of innocents and regular people will ever work..... the people making the decisions clearly don't give a fuck. ( to varying degrees)

Israel has been trying to force hamas to lay down its arms and has been since October 7th. They will not do that voluntarily.

So trying the same strategy back at Israel just seems like more of the same to me

I think the difference when you have an aggressor is that they can only keep attacking if they have support.

Israelis are probably a little like Russians - feeling safe, feeling secure, going to work, living normally, not ready to overthrow the government that is interested in protecting itself and itself alone.

Unfortunately the population are needed now, and they're not acting. I don't see any other way out of it but overwhelming pressure, protest, and a loss of international support.

I wish there was another way, I don't want ANYONE to die, but Israel is demanding this war. They won't stop, we know that.

 

[Samjj]

#1. You're the one who brought up the ICJ. I never stated the ICJ did anything. Stop lying.
#2. The ICJ judge said the purpose of the ruling was to declare that South Africa had a right to bring its case against Israel and that Palestinians had “plausible rights to protection from genocide” - rights which were at a real risk of irreparable damage.

#3. You're parsing minor details because your overall argument is so weak. You try to get people "lost in the weeds" with dumb nitpicky semantic arguments.

#4. As far as I'm concerned, you are clearly lying as you have previously have stated the West Bank settlements were wrong. But later started defending it. You're not consistent and make constant excuses.

Lol, you’re a serial liar. I don’t take you seriously.

 

[Anewt]

I think the difference when you have an aggressor is that they can only keep attacking if they have support.

Israelis are probably a little like Russians - feeling safe, feeling secure, going to work, living normally, not ready to overthrow the government that is interested in protecting itself and itself alone.

Unfortunately the population are needed now, and they're not acting. I don't see any other way out of it but overwhelming pressure, protest, and a loss of international support.

I wish there was another way, I don't want ANYONE to die, but Israel is demanding this war. They won't stop, we know that.

Oh I get it. My fear would be it having the opposite outcome. Rather than the population blaming the government for the failure of their security / military and any actions that may have led to the retaliation that creates the lack of security.


The blame goes to those doing the killing not your government as a general rule. See Palestinian opinions regarding hamas during the heavy early reprisals from the idf. The same with Israelis and the hatred of Palestinians after October 7.


I do not think any Muslim nation attacking Israelis will come with a blame of their government more than the people dropping bombs... especially with the propaganda / media control.

Just like hamas gained support in the immediate aftermath. Not lost it.

 

[Hog-train]

Lol, you’re a serial liar. I don’t take you seriously.

Ok show it. Where am I lying? Probably going to get crickets as usual.

 

[cincymma79]

I might be an idiot, but if you are being honest, you know slandering an entire people based on your belief is ignorant. Islamic religious text on this subject is far different than what you suggest. All I did was point out the Jewish religious position from our own texts.

Homosexuality in Jewish Law​

Among the sexual perversions proscribed as criminal offenses in the moral code of the Torah are homosexual relations between males (Lev. 18:22). Both offending parties are threatened with capital punishment (Lev. 20:13)
​

וְאִ֗ישׁ אֲשֶׁ֨ר יִשְׁכַּ֤ב אֶת־זָכָר֙ מִשְׁכְּבֵ֣י אִשָּׁ֔ה תּוֹעֵבָ֥ה עָשׂ֖וּ שְׁנֵיהֶ֑ם מ֥וֹת יוּמָ֖תוּ דְּמֵיהֶ֥ם בָּֽם׃
If a man lies with a male as one lies with a woman, the two of them have done an abhorrent thing; they shall be put to death—and they retain the bloodguilt.

Leviticus 20:13

If a man lies with a male as one lies with a woman, the two of them have done an abhorrent thing; they shall be put to death—and they retain the...

www.sefaria.org

BTW, I too am Jewish.

Shalom, sherbro

Can you be gay in Israel right now?

 

[Halifax]

Yes, although there is always an element seeking to really vilify homosexuality in the West.

People shooting up gay nightclubs and drag acts and such.

Trans is the current 'threat to children' (it used to be gay people not so long ago), and a lot of that is rooted in Judaeo-Christianity (of which Islam is an extension).

Pushing phobic narratives on to developing countries is always a recipe for disaster whichever religion invests in the intolerance.

Very Small element in western Christianity.. it's dwarfed by Islam, which even moderates and progressives of Islam are very anti LGBTQ +

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Oh I get it. My fear would be it having the opposite outcome. Rather than the population blaming the government for the failure of their security / military and any actions that may have led to the retaliation that creates the lack of security.


The blame goes to those doing the killing not your government as a general rule. See Palestinian opinions regarding hamas during the heavy early reprisals from the idf. The same with Israelis and the hatred of Palestinians after October 7.


I do not think any Muslim nation attacking Israelis will come with a blame of their government more than the people dropping bombs... especially with the propaganda / media control.

Just like hamas gained support in the immediate aftermath. Not lost it.

I would hope - and it is just hope - that the already present anti war sentiment (that isn't enough) would swell and grow.

But you might be right. It could become an us vs the world mentality.

Hopefully Russians crack. They are being lied to in a way the Israeli's aren't. But hopefully the more aware Israelis fight back against Netanyahu.

 

[Halifax]

Do you honestly expect world's most powerful militaries to fight with sticks and rocks?

US dominates all others on the basis of its vastly superior airforce. Russia has always counted on its artillery to overpower foes. Did you think IDF would fight the war on Hamas's terms and in ways most convenient to them?

Yea IDF has reduced Gaza to rubble just like was expected. What happened to Grozny when Russia fought domestic militants there? The entire capital of Chechnya was reduced to rubble same as Gaza yet I doubt you were outraged about it or even knew.

You can bet Mexico City would be reduced to rubble as well if Mexican soldiers committed a 9-11 x20-30(in proportional terms) atrocity and then retreated and hid among civilians in major cities.....and if not US then Russia would 100% do it with any regional player. I am not happy about the deaths and I hope it gets resolved sooner than later but it was 100% preventable. Don't do Oct 7 style attacks, it's idiotic in numerous ways. Gazans were literally dependent on Israelis for everything. It's like shooting someone who's preventing you from falling off a cliff.

You should go back and read through the first 2 threads after 10/7

A lot of dorks were gloating about how they hoped the IDF dared to enter Gaza boots on ground, saying "Hamas is ready for them! I hope they try", and envisioned a booby trapped mest grinder

Most of them turned absolutely outraged that the IDF did what any logical army would do and used their air superiority to soften it up lol.
"It's not fair! Fight boots on the ground. Be a man! Take casualties! THIS ISN'T FAIR"

 

[Halifax]

Catching up on this. I think Iran do something performative. I think they're well within their rights to go mad as the attack happened in their soil. If roles were reversed and Netinyahu was assassinated in Tel Aviv, the same.

However I genuinely don't think they are capable and don't think the Ayatollahs REALLY want the smoke. They talk a huge game to their people but it they really believed in martyrdom and what awaits them in death, they wouldn't spend most of their time in hiding.

I think we'll get another tit for tat exchange over 1-2 days that then dissipates. Didn't Trump's US assassinate a top Iranian with no response? Wonder why?

I don't like using the term paper tiger and don't think Iran are one, but they are nowhere near the threat that some believe. This isn't Russia or China. A danger? Of course. But nothing that a combined effort wouldn't decimate in a fairly short period of time.

If, say, Iraq was sympathetic to Israel, and allowed Israel to fund a Jewish Militia called Hezbullshit on the border with Iran that technically isn't the IDF of Israeli, but we're fully armed and funded by Israel, and they started blasting into Iran every now and then as part of a proxy war, yall would be like "can't be mad at israel or Iraq. It was those damn Hezbullshit renegades"

Making a comparison like "if iran killed Netanyahu" would work if Israel had assassinated Khamenei. They didn't. They killed Hamas and Hezbollah terrorist leaders.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Speaking in his evening address, Zelensky said: "Russia must be forced into peace if Putin wants to continue waging war so badly”

---

Unfortunately you have to deal with psychotic leaders in this manner.

It is also looking like the only way to stop Netanyahu, too.

Someone will simply have to hurt Israel enough that the people womt tolerate all out war, otherwise there are absolutely no signs of them stopping.

Eh, doesn't that just perpetuate the cycle? That sounds almost exactly like the logic Israel uses against Hamas.

You can't "force" someone into peace with an offensive action. Zelensky is an idiot.

 

[PEB]

 

[SandisLL]

Benny : we will continue until you will release all hostiges.
Also looks that they aren't ready to annex Gaza de iure cos Knesset not likely will support this today.
Egypt? Sisi told that Egypt doesn't have intent to annex or control Gaza.

U.N is useless puppet with Russia and China orchestrating idiotic bireucracy machine where China and Russia does have veto rights ...
And for Russia and Iran it better that shit in Gaza will be long nightmare: this does push up gold prices and crude oil future contracts prices...Iran and Russia does have crude oil and gold they are able to sell.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Eh, doesn't that just perpetuate the cycle? That sounds almost exactly like the logic Israel uses against Hamas.

You can't "force" someone into peace with an offensive action. Zelensky is an idiot.

Nah, Netanyahu isn't interested in peace, just like Putin isn't interested in peace. Both have plenty of opportunity to stop fighting and live safely, but neither will do it.

Since they won't do it, they have to be made to understand their aggression comes at a cost. You can't just expect everyone to lay down for one man's giant ego and let him have everything his own way at your expense.

Netanyahu and Putin are the same guy. Netanyahu has arbitrarily decided he is entitled to Palestine, Putin has arbitrarily decided he is entitled to Ukraine (or, now that it's proving difficult, large parts of it [see: Netanyahu and the West Bank]). In both cases, international law clearly shows that no, they aren't entitled to shit.

They simply can't, and shouldn't, be allowed to steamroll over everyone, killing as they go.

 

[SandisLL]

Eh, doesn't that just perpetuate the cycle? That sounds almost exactly like the logic Israel uses against Hamas.

You can't "force" someone into peace with an offensive action. Zelensky is an idiot.

I agree that Zelensky administration were and are idiots while like you too comrade.


Ukraine didn't had situation when admission in NATO or EU was possible stuff....even without Russia impact btw.
However you comrade most likely are pro MAGA oriented guy, nothing wrong, it is business and nothing special.....so elect Trump and enjoy support he will sign for Israel. Reps are more willing to send your money to Israel than dems. Cope and be happy....

 

[SandisLL]

Nah, Netanyahu isn't interested in peace, just like Putin isn't interested in peace. Both have plenty of opportunity to stop fighting and live safely, but neither will do it.

Since they won't do it, they have to be made to understand their aggression comes at a cost. You can't just expect everyone to lay down for one man's giant ego and let him have everything his own way at your expense.

Netanyahu and Putin are the same guy. Netanyahu has arbitrarily decided he is entitled to Palestine, Putin has arbitrarily decided he is entitled to Ukraine (or, now that it's proving difficult, large parts of it [see: Netanyahu and the West Bank]). In both cases, international law clearly shows that no, they aren't entitled to shit.

They simply can't, and shouldn't, be allowed to steamroll over everyone, killing as they go.

With Benny stuff is that when war will end there will be investigation about MOSSAD why during decades generously funded MOsSAd didn't had spotted dense tunnels and bunkers networks building during 10+ years in Gaza and Jews will ask why and how MOSSaD didn't had spotted preparation for very large scale fast saturation attack by using xxxx cheap missiles in one day.

Benny does knows how angry cos this are jews.

 

[Snubnoze707]

Nah, Netanyahu isn't interested in peace, just like Putin isn't interested in peace. Both have plenty of opportunity to stop fighting and live safely, but neither will do it.

Since they won't do it, they have to be made to understand their aggression comes at a cost. You can't just expect everyone to lay down for one man's giant ego and let him have everything his own way at your expense.

Netanyahu and Putin are the same guy. Netanyahu has arbitrarily decided he is entitled to Palestine, Putin has arbitrarily decided he is entitled to Ukraine (or, now that it's proving difficult, large parts of it [see: Netanyahu and the West Bank]). In both cases, international law clearly shows that no, they aren't entitled to shit.

They simply can't, and shouldn't, be allowed to steamroll over everyone, killing as they go.

I think you are over simplifying the conflicts and they have completely different circumstances surrounding them so you can't treat them like exact parallels. You also can't just boil this down to a single person's ego. Zionism wasn't created by Netanyahu, and would exist without him. You are however using similar rhetoric as Israel when it comes to dealing with the Palestinians, so be aware of that.