International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Deleted member 585708]

Its pretty sick to see people so quick to justify the killing of children but that's what you get with ugly ethnic conflicts.

The cat video in particular is pretty suspect, if you ask me it looks like the kid is miming the slaughter of livestock but I wouldn't put it past the hasbara brigade to take something like that out of context. We've also seen the Pallywood conspiracy amplified here as well so the sum total of these viewpoints is that children aren't suffering and if they are its because they deserve it. Ghoulish stuff.

I always thought of it as 'honest oversight' when people were saying Palestinians are responsible for their situation, despite the fact so many Palestinians are children who have never had a say in anything.

Collective responsibility is a disgusting concept anyway, but it at least makes sense to say 'you got what you voted for' in some circumstances.

Children, though, do not vote.

 

[tastaylvr]

What I'm saying is if there was a kid in a suicide bomb vest running towards me and I had a gun in my possession, you'd best believe I'll be emptying my magazine with no fucking reservations.

Terrorism apologist, Islamist imbecile.

Why even bring up suicide bombs? That's not even relevant to this discussion. Hamas doesn't even use suicide bombs nor is it even that prevalent these days.

You obviously think Islam is inherently evil and then change your talking points when confronted. The only reason you are in this thread is because you hate Islam. You have no love for Jews or Israel either. It's also comical that you are the first person to cry racism/anti-Semitism while holding the views you do.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

Don't do that now. We know what you were implying here.

You made a leap from children singing/dancing that have no idea what they are doing to "kids can be terrorists" too. That's fucking madness.

The logical leaps you make to justify the slaughter of innocent children is insane.

I posted the videos to show how young they get started with the indoctrinations. You have no problem with this kind of savagery.

The original point stands. Not all children are innocent.

 

[tastaylvr]

I posted the videos to show how young they get started with the indoctrinations. You have no problem with this kind of savagery.

The original point stands. Not all children are innocent.

What is the savagery here? The only savage here is the person judging millions of children based on a 10 second video uploaded to a propaganda subreddit.

The irony in calling them indoctrinated while you get your information from a propaganda bubble. Hilarious.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

Why even bring up suicide bombs? That's not even relevant to this discussion. Hamas doesn't even use suicide bombs nor is it even that prevalent these days.

You just can't put two and two together, can't you? How about if the kid charged at me with a knife? His ass will be met with an equal response.

You obviously think Islam is inherently evil and then change your talking points when confronted. The only reason you are in this thread is because you hate Islam. You have no love for Jews or Israel either. It's also comical that you are the first person to cry racism/anti-Semitism while holding the views you do.

Me thinking a religion founded by a genocidal warmonger who raped a nine year old girl is inherently evil? Oh, the horror!

Are you accusing me of being anti-semitic? You have accused me of being an Evangelical Christian three fucking times already. You're a fucking idiot.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

What is the savagery here? The only savage here is the person judging millions of children based on a 10 second video uploaded to a propaganda subreddit.

Exactly. You've just proven my point. You don't find this kind of content to be savage. This does not surprise me. This is par for the course for an Islamist and terrorist apologist.

The irony in calling them indoctrinated while you get your information from a propaganda bubble. Hilarious.

How is it fucking propaganda when the video itself is being recorded and distributed by the perpetrators themselves? Again, just stupid.

 

[Anewt]

The original point stands. Not all children are innocent.

Man........ jfc

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

Man........ jfc

What the fuck is your problem? This is the 2nd or 3rd time you've written this to me. Very compelling argument you've got there.

So are you another one of these idiots who believe children are not capable of inflicting violence unto others and should not be held responsible for their crimes?

By the way, just to clarify my statement on children and innocence: children who commit crimes should not be viewed as innocent by virtue of their underage status. That's bullshit.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

What the fuck is your problem? This is the 2nd or 3rd time you've written this to me. Very compelling argument you've got there.

So are you another one of these idiots who believe children are not capable of inflicting violence unto others and should not be held responsible for their crimes?

By the way, just to clarify my statement on children and innocence: children who commit crimes should not be viewed as innocent by virtue of their underage status. That's bullshit.

Would you give a child the vote? A little child, not a 16-21 year old, but a little kid?

If the answer is no, then you're accepting children cannot be given such levels of responsibility.

 

[HereticBD]

Man........ jfc

It's not entirely untrue. If you have adults teaching kids to kill, and those kids do indeed go out with the intention to kill, are they innocent? Do you not treat them like enemy combatants, because it hurts your moral center?

It's not black and white. Kids can kill. It's certainly tragic when you have to treat their little brainwashed minds as enemy combatants, but it is what it is. If you have a regime commanding kids to kill, do you just ignore the AK-47 in their hands because they're kids?

 

[BAM]

What the fuck is your problem? This is the 2nd or 3rd time you've written this to me. Very compelling argument you've got there.

So are you another one of these idiots who believe children are not capable of inflicting violence unto others and should not be held responsible for their crimes?

By the way, just to clarify my statement on children and innocence: children who commit crimes should not be viewed as innocent by virtue of their underage status. That's bullshit.

So, perhaps it would help to clarify what your actual position is, as 'children' is ambiguous.

Putting Israel/Palestine to the side for a second, what is the appropriate age to start criminal responsibility for children, why, and what should that entail?

It's an active question in many communities. My city, which is the capital, and the most progressive legislature in the country - raised it recently to 14 (there are exceptions under the new legislation - intentionally serious violent offences)

The rationale is more or less trying to break cycles of intergenerational familial criminal behaviour. Some believe this can be accomplished through alternative paths to prevent recidivism. Whether or not it works, we'll see, but that'll likely depend on a variety of things.

ACT raises the age of criminal responsibility to 14 with nation-first legislation

Children in the ACT under the age of 14 won't be charged, convicted or incarcerated for criminal offences — except in exceptional cases — from mid-2025.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

Would you give a child the vote? A little child, not a 16-21 year old, but a little kid?

If the answer is no, then you're accepting children cannot be given such levels of responsibility.

Am I living in a fucking clown world? Did I just make the most controversial statement of the century by claiming that not all children are innocent?

Palestinian just convicted of stabbing her neighbor may be freed in Hamas deal

Dvir Cohen, whose wife Moriah was attacked by Nafoz Hamad in Jerusalem, says that while he's 'happy for the families of the hostages,' he'll fight to keep her in prison

www.timesofisrael.com

Israeli wounded in Jerusalem stabbing; 14-year-old Palestinian assailant shot dead

***

www.haaretz.com

I mean, shit. Let's just let these undisciplined kids roam free without facing the consequences of their actions. What a beautiful world it'll turn out to be.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Am I living in a fucking clown world? Did I just make the most controversial statement of the century by claiming that not all children are innocent?

Palestinian just convicted of stabbing her neighbor may be freed in Hamas deal

Dvir Cohen, whose wife Moriah was attacked by Nafoz Hamad in Jerusalem, says that while he's 'happy for the families of the hostages,' he'll fight to keep her in prison

www.timesofisrael.com

Israeli wounded in Jerusalem stabbing; 14-year-old Palestinian assailant shot dead

***

www.haaretz.com

I mean, shit. Let's just let these undisciplined kid roam free without facing consequences of their actions. What a beautiful world it'll turn out to be.

Nah, you just made a confused point that is wrong.

You'd be better off dropping the word 'innocent' and just argue that children can commit serious crimes - which they, of course, can.

 

[Anewt]

It's not entirely untrue. If you have adults teaching kids to kill, and those kids do indeed go out with the intention to kill, are they innocent? Do you not treat them like enemy combatants, because it hurts your moral center?

It's not black and white. Kids can kill. It's certainly tragic when you have to treat their little brainwashed minds as enemy combatants, but it is what it is. If you have a regime commanding kids to kill, do you just ignore the AK-47 in their hands because they're kids?

Not at at all. Combatants are Combatants. But I still consider a brainwashed child a innocent. Of course kids can kill and be combatants.. its why child soldiers are some of the worst crimes . Be they forced through physical intimidation or ideology.

Isn't this the standard we hold in most western countries by law ? A child isn't considered responsible for crimes generally in our nation's due to diminished capacity for understanding right / wrong etc.

And that's for western kids doing fucked up crimes. We still have a blanket viewpoint of all children are considered innocent...

Put children in brainwashing education, destroy their lives and their families.... Mt viewpoint holds... I still will view the child as a innocent. Even if their actions aren't. [ generally although there's always exceptions ] I consider a Palestinian child with a ak " to use your example still a innocent child in a fucked up situation.

But would I expect any less of a response than a adult with ak. No. I'd shoot both. I'd feel far more traumatised for killing one than the other tho.

This is the standard [ or at least was / is to me ] in crimes for children in the West. I don't see why we should throw it away for kids in worse situations.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

Nah, you just made a confused point that is wrong.

You'd be better off dropping the word 'innocent' and just argue that children can commit serious crimes - which they, of course, can.

Do I need to break this down to you like a kindergartener? Let's take a look at the multiple definitions of the word "innocent", according to Merriam-Webster:

innocent​

1 of 2

adjective​

in·no·cent ˈi-nə-sənt

Synonyms of innocent
1
a
: free from legal guilt or fault
also : LAWFUL
a wholly innocent transaction

b
: free from guilt or sin especially through lack of knowledge of evil : BLAMELESS
an innocent child

c
: harmless in effect or intention
… searching for a hidden motive in even the most innocent conversation.—Leonard Wibberley

also : CANDID
gave me an innocent gaze


2
a
: lacking or reflecting a lack of sophistication, guile, or self-consciousness : ARTLESS, INGENUOUS
b
: IGNORANT
… almost entirely innocent of Latin.—C. L. Wrenn

also : UNAWARE
… perfectly innocent of the confusion he had created …—B. R. Haydon


3
: lacking or deprived of something
… her face innocent of cosmetics …—Marcia Davenport

I was referring to 1a: free from legal guilt or fault and 1c: harmless in effect or intention. The rest of you are probably thinking of the rest of the definitions.

 

[Deleted member 585708]

Do I need to break this down to you like a kindergartener? Let's take a look at the multiple definitions of the word "innocent", according to Merriam-Webster:



I was referring to 1a: free from legal guilt or fault and 1c: harmless in effect or intention. The rest of you are probably thinking of the rest of the definitions.

I'd probably just let it go at this point.

 

[Anewt]

Do I need to break this down to you like a kindergartener? Let's take a look at the multiple definitions of the word "innocent", according to Merriam-Webster:



I was referring to 1a: free from legal guilt or fault and 1c: harmless in effect or intention. The rest of you are probably thinking of the rest of the definitions.

Yeah... and generally children legally cannot be prosecuted ..... [ depending apon your state and age etc ]


Hence why children are unilaterally considered
" innocent "

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

So, perhaps it would help to clarify what your actual position is, as 'children' is ambiguous.

Putting Israel/Palestine to the side for a second, what is the appropriate age to start criminal responsibility for children, why, and what should that entail?

It's an active question in many communities. My city, which is the capital, and the most progressive legislature in the country - raised it recently to 14 (there are exceptions under the new legislature - intentionally serious violent offences)

The rationale is more or less trying to break cycles of intergenerational familial criminal behaviour. Some believe this can be accomplished through alternative paths to prevent recidivism. Whether or not it works, we'll see, but that'll likely depend on a variety of things.

ACT raises the age of criminal responsibility to 14 with nation-first legislation

Children in the ACT under the age of 14 won't be charged, convicted or incarcerated for criminal offences — except in exceptional cases — from mid-2025.

www.abc.net.au

Law is not my forte, so I can't pull an arbitrary number out of my ass to determine at what age a child can be held legally responsible for a crime. All I know is that if some kid charged at me with a knife, the last thing on my mind would be me wondering whether that kid is either close to being 11 or 17 years old.

 

[Anewt]

Law is not my forte, so I can't pull an arbitrary number out of my ass to determine at what age a child can be held legally responsible for a crime. All I know is that if some kid charged at me with a knife, the last thing on my mind would be me wondering whether that kid is either close to being 11 or 17 years old.

Ahh once again it's language that's the main difference.

For me. When I read children. I do not think teenagers which is why that simple line seemed so fucked up to me.

 

[BAM]

Law is not my forte, so I can't pull an arbitrary number out of my ass to determine at what age a child can be held legally responsible for a crime. All I know is that if some kid charged at me with a knife, the last thing on my mind would be me wondering whether that kid is either close to being 11 or 17 years old.

generally speaking, based on the past, and what I've seen of Hamas training camps, they train teenagers for war and implement them in suicide bombings (starting around 14). They are then imminent threats and will be killed, regardless of whether or not they were unfairly targeted and influenced by terrorist ideologues for indoctrination or independently formed the view themselves.

I think there is a difference between acting on an imminent threat, such as shooting a kid in a suicide vest, and some sort of broad justification about culpable children. I am glad you have clarified your stance.