Half-guard when Opponent Faces Legs

[ElKarlo]

As a leglocker. I would be worried if someone was spinning on top of me. I think inheritantly the postition is dangerous untill you lock down their spinning/rolling movements. That being said I probably try to bicylekick them away, to play it safe.

I think you have some good thoughts, but I didn't see where you took leglocks into account.

 

[ShanghaiBJJ]

As a leglocker. I would be worried if someone was spinning on top of me. I think inheritantly the postition is dangerous untill you lock down their spinning/rolling movements. That being said I probably try to bicylekick them away, to play it safe.

I think you have some good thoughts, but I didn't see where you took leglocks into account.

I think you are misinterpreting the position. We are talking about this:

No too much leg lock potential there...

 

[ElKarlo]

I think you are misinterpreting the position. We are talking about this:

No too much leg lock potential there...

I think I am. Sorry. Though I do at that position try and spin or roll for a toehold. In NoGi I can pull that off. With a Gi, no prolly not.

Sorry for the leglocking highjacking:redface:

 

[codemonkey76]

What i have been doing from this position is backward rolling over my right shoulder using my left underhook to reach for the sky and once i get my hips off the ground just shoot them straight up in the air, i have got it a few times, i don't recall seeing the technique anywhere but it could have invaded my subconscious from the numerous threads i have read and instructionals i have seen, your thoughts anyone?

 

[ShanghaiBJJ]

I think I am. Sorry. Though I do at that position try and spin or roll for a toehold. In NoGi I can pull that off. With a Gi, no prolly not.

Sorry for the leglocking highjacking:redface:

All good.... I get antsy anyone faces my legs that likes leglocks or that I don't know anything about so fair play.

 

[ShanghaiBJJ]

What i have been doing from this position is backward rolling over my right shoulder using my left underhook to reach for the sky and once i get my hips off the ground just shoot them straight up in the air, i have got it a few times, i don't recall seeing the technique anywhere but it could have invaded my subconscious from the numerous threads i have read and instructionals i have seen, your thoughts anyone?

Well, if you are opening your legs to post before you roll him, it is essentially the same as technique #1, described by TS.

BTW, did you manage to train in Beijing?

 

[Gsoares2***]

As they turn to face the legs i block their arm so they cannot turn back to face my head again.. and take the nearest ankle and throw it over my head as i launch my hips into the air.. its a roll over and a simple solution to this pass. using the pic below as a reference my left hand would go right behind his tricep close to the armpit. My right hand would grab his ankle of his trailing leg (left) and rotate it over my head as i launch my hips up.

But the thing is you can only do it as he turns.. if he has turned and his hips are on the ground.. your screwed... and then option #2 come sin to play.

If his hips are set then i move for this. I get up on my elbow on the same side his hips are on. My other hand goes to his shorts/pants right at the butt crack. Grab the pants.. and then as he pulls his leg out to pass half guard simply tug him forward from the butt crack grip and slide to his back. It sounds easy, and it really is.. YOU HAVE TO stay on your elbow though.. other wise you wont have the space needed to go to the back.
using the above pic as a reference. I would sit up on my right elbow. Left hand would be the one on the pants/shorts, Left elbow will be framed against his back to keep the distance as well.

Important - when playing this guard dont let the above position happen with your arm there. i move my left arm to his back to do the above mentioned sweeps. In the pic your are proned to getting kimura'd. When moving the arm to the back never let the guy close the space and force your arm up to your head. If so.. the above mentioned sweeps will be useless as you will be pinned with no real exit other than to let him pass and try to recover.

You can keep your elbows in his back in order to keep some space and stop him from locking your down.

 

[Sherdog_Mutt]

ShanghaiBJJ: The guy can't gain mount from you cause you're bridging hard in #1. The momentum has his weight going backwards. The weak underhook helps ensure that the guy rolls over with you. If I have to, I can also pull up on the left leg to help finish the sweep.

For the most part, I agree with you re: kimura. However, it is difficult for the guy to finish the submission once you have wedged your elbow into your side. The best option is to initiate the sweep prior to his having locked in the grip needed to finish the sub.

Aesopian: Let me know how the sweeps work out for you. I've seen your option A before but for some reason have not been trying it. I'll give it a whirl and see what happens. I think your option B sounds like an awesome option for when you're sure the guy's going to pull his leg free. I'll definitely give both a try. Thanks.

Gsoares2: I've got to try those techniques too. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Gsoares2***]

ShanghaiBJJ: The guy can't gain mount from you cause you're bridging hard in #1. The momentum has his weight going backwards. The weak underhook helps ensure that the guy rolls over with you. If I have to, I can also pull up on the left leg to help finish the sweep.

For the most part, I agree with you re: kimura. However, it is difficult for the guy to finish the submission once you have wedged your elbow into your side. The best option is to initiate the sweep prior to his having locked in the grip needed to finish the sub.

Aesopian: Let me know how the sweeps work out for you. I've seen your option A before but for some reason have not been trying it. I'll give it a whirl and see what happens. I think your option B sounds like an awesome option for when you're sure the guy's going to pull his leg free. I'll definitely give both a try. Thanks.

Gsoares2: I've got to try those techniques too. Thanks for sharing.

My second sweep, and Aesopians B sweep are the same sweep described differently.
If you have trouble getting it to work - pull details from both our explanations to get it working.
Aesop has knack for describing techniques in text and vocally.. so his might be of better aid.

 

[Zankou]

Zankou, what's your build? And why exactly did you give up scooting under the opponent?

6'1, 195, basically a Braulio clone. I have a really long torso and long arms, wiry build. I just don't scoot under well. Too much length. And I decided that any position where the primary defense is to aggressively crossface/whizzer/smash me is not one I want to play, since I don't enjoy being smashed like a bug. I'd rather play half butterfly or quarter, where my opponent doesn't want to smash me because it works against him.

If I can really boot my opponent forward with the underhook, then I'll take it. But I won't take a shallow underhook and try to work deeper while my opponent frenetically tries to crossface/sprawl/whizzer me. If I can't go deep from the start, I'd rather go quarter/half butterfly/z.

Damnit, I wish there was somebody at my school besides me who likes to drill this stuff. Nobody ever wants to drill. And my wife REFUSES to pitch in. :icon_conf

 

[franz_grinder]

6'1, 195, basically a Braulio clone. I have a really long torso and long arms, wiry build. I just don't scoot under well. Too much length. And I decided that any position where the primary defense is to aggressively crossface/whizzer/smash me is not one I want to play, since I don't enjoy being smashed like a bug. I'd rather play half butterfly or quarter, where my opponent doesn't want to smash me because it works against him.

If I can really boot my opponent forward with the underhook, then I'll take it. But I won't take a shallow underhook and try to work deeper while my opponent frenetically tries to crossface/sprawl/whizzer me. If I can't go deep from the start, I'd rather go quarter/half butterfly/z.

Damnit, I wish there was somebody at my school besides me who likes to drill this stuff. Nobody ever wants to drill. And my wife REFUSES to pitch in. :icon_conf

I am 5'10 and I fight at 145. I pretty much aim away from dog fighting wrestling positions as well. With Gi I definitely play a Braulio type game. All arms and grips. I always wish I could find someone to drill this kid of stuff with me.

 

[wildcard_seven]

It's too bad we can't rep on these forums, cause I'd rep the shit out of this thread. Best stuff I've seen in answer to this position.

 

[BCarr]

That's what I thought he meant.

Let me know how sweeps 1 and 2 work out for you. They literally revitalized my half-guard as nearly all of my teammates had been resorting to this position to pass my half-guard.

Yeah, I was a little backward in my thinking....but knew somebody out there could know what I was thinking vs. what I was talking about.

Looking at the pic and thinking about the position now, I've been working on some stuff just getting my open foot back in the pocket, then using the hook to hold him from passing back to side control or even lifting him up to get back underneath him. Of course, control the arms when you're doing this so he can't push your regained hook away.

Play with it....feels odd at first, but I've been using it a lot lately....just to play.

 

[Aesopian]

For option B, what would you do if it's no gi and there is no belt to grab?

You could grab the shorts if you're willing to bend that rule, otherwise just try to use your forearm/elbow to shunt them down (like you want to make their face hit the mat) or at least keep whatever space you've got.

More importantly, time it really well and shrimp REALLY hard to make up for not being able to throw them as well. There's almost always a moment right as they free their leg that they lift their hips to scoot up and it gives you a window to pull your knee up and shrimp to their back.

Sherdog_Mutt: Like Trog said, his second sweep is my "B". I tend to use A and Trog tends use B, but it comes in handy to have both. Sometimes I'll start positioning myself for B by getting on my elbow, but they'll pressure into me and put me back down, and I'll use that moment to reach down and grab their ankle for counter A.

Also, if you watch through the half guard videos I sent you, in one (I think the second), I show the first sweep Trog talks about, a variation of the backroll sweep. Don't know if you saw that. I'll post all those clips later.

 

[Sherdog_Mutt]

Aesopian: I watched the first of your videos. I've been in Vegas and haven't gotten to the rest yet. I'll be sure to check it out. Thanks again for everything.

Zankou: If you're ever in the OC, let me know and we can drill half-guard till the cow's come home.

 

[Sherdog_Mutt]

What i have been doing from this position is backward rolling over my right shoulder using my left underhook to reach for the sky and once i get my hips off the ground just shoot them straight up in the air, i have got it a few times, i don't recall seeing the technique anywhere but it could have invaded my subconscious from the numerous threads i have read and instructionals i have seen, your thoughts anyone?

Codemonkey: I used to get this sweep on occasion as well. As I've progressed, I haven't been able to nail it at all against higher level guys. I sometimes try rocking onto my right shoulder but mainly to setup something else rather than going for this specific sweep.

 

[TheHighlander]

No gi required:

1) If I have the underhook (and feel the kimura can be risked) I will attempt a side choke (either gable grip or figure four). This is relatively low percentage to finish skilled opponents as they will find a way to work their arm out, but this puts them back into regular half-guard.

The remainder are for cases where you do not have the underhook (and he has no neck pressure):

2) Deep cross-face. Ideally on the neck but works fine on the chin as well. When you apply the cross-face he will arch back and you just follow through on the motion to top half-guard. Very high percentage to finish the sweep once you get your arm in position, but he has to have his head up to start.

3) Use an inside lockdown (the pic in the past couple of posts is what I would call an outside lockdown...it might work from there but I have never tried). While maintaining the lockdown use both of your hands on his hips to bring yourself relatively parallel. Post on your inside elbow (right if he's on your right side), start turning your hips and straighten your legs as much as possible while maintaining the lockdown. It's basically a hip heist sweep. It's very timing and angle dependant and sometimes takes a fair bit of time to actually do the sweep (like it's in slow motion), but it's very hard to stop once in motion.

4) Get parallel as in #3, post up on inside elbow, hook his butt with your free hand and hip heist.

5) Overhook his top shoulder (right if he's on your right side) and gable grip your hands. From here you can work him across your body into a twister, take is back or initiate a scramble.

6) Grab his free foot and lever him over. Alternately switch to an underhook of his free knee and transition into x-guard.

 

[Sherdog_Mutt]

TheHighlander: Some cool options in there. I have never heard of #5. I'm itching to try it.

Nor have I ever thought of transitioning to the x-guard from there. I'll give it a shot.

 

[TheHighlander]

Mutt: I play a ton of bottom half-guard and have a very good lockdown so it's pretty common for my opponent to try and face the legs to free them so I get to work from there a lot. #3 is actually my favourite, but I don't pass up on low-hanging fruit (#2) very often.

Read through your versions a couple of times and I can't seem to picture your #1 though. Perhaps it has to do with initial position, as I can't picture the crossface you are referring to.

 

[Sherdog_Mutt]

Mutt: I play a ton of bottom half-guard and have a very good lockdown so it's pretty common for my opponent to try and face the legs to free them so I get to work from there a lot. #3 is actually my favourite, but I don't pass up on low-hanging fruit (#2) very often.

Read through your versions a couple of times and I can't seem to picture your #1 though. Perhaps it has to do with initial position, as I can't picture the crossface you are referring to.

Your #2 and my #3 are identical. I used to use it a lot but then guys got wise to it and started ducking their heads down.

My #1 sweep is almost like the upa escape. In fact, the mechanics are practically the same. The guy's not crossfacing you and you're not crossfacing him. Essentially, what you do is you're stretching out his legs (it brings his left leg closer to you) and then you just do an upa escape once you've trapped that left leg. Play around with it a bit and let me know if you have any other questions.