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International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war Megathread

Does Mandy Patinkin have a valid point?

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DEVILsSON said:
I don't really care if Israel takes out some leaders living in Qatar. I don't think anything would be notably different had they still been alive.

Sieges have been used historically to break resistance. It's not pretty but it's effective. Not sure if this would have been my approach but I do understand it.

It's amazing to me that we're at a point where the winning side is being told to stop simply due to the whining by the losing side (when the losing side started the war)..I can't recall any other war or conflict like this...
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The assassinations provided justification to those claiming that Israel's gov wanted to prolong the war as a priority and was not committed to freeing hostages and were actively sabotaging negotiations or were negotiating in bad faith. Nobody gives a fuck about Hamas leadership getting killed per se, if anything people wanted them dead the most.

Re seiges, they are routinely condemned for creating conditions for civilians that are incompatible with international law and human rights. It's not Israel specific. The moment they declared that intention there was outcry because starvation was easily foreseeable and well known.

Nobody cares if Hamas whines. The concern lies around the civilian population, comprised mostly of young people (average age is 20 years old). People are sick of seeing dusty emaciated dead kids being carried out of collapsed buildings by crying mothers and fathers.
 
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KAZSoliloquy said:
she says what she says because she's a christian white nationalist who hates jews. it's not the same. she's just an antisemite.
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She’s been an Israel first loon for a while though. I think what’s happening is she’s seeing the far right base turning on Israel in real time, people like her just go with whatever’s trendy.
 
DEVILsSON said:
Very subtle trying to equate yourself to Nelson Mandela / MLK...

Let us know if you find them supporting the equivalent of ISIS or Al Queda in their day....Hamas went far beyond what Lehi, Irgun, IRA, ANC, etc groups did...

Like I said, there was a way for Hamas to do it even at the most extreme levels without alienating most of the rational world....most sane extremists know to at least not attack children...some things are sacred...

My apologies...single yellows...working on them doubles though....
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There is literally no equivalence between Isis and Hamas. Hamas is a nationalist movement, ISIS is a millenarian extremist movement that doesn’t even believe in the concept of national borders. Different ideologies, different aims, different methods. Netanyahu’s strategy all along was to prop up Hamas and beat down the PA, he was caught on camera saying that. Other Israeli leaders have publicly said Hamas is an asset and the PA is a liability. And now they’re “ISIS” loool. Israeli propaganda is a hell if a thing.
 
moosaev said:
She’s been an Israel first loon for a while though. I think what’s happening is she’s seeing the far right base turning on Israel in real time, people like her just go with whatever’s trendy.
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she opposed sending weapons pretty early, starting in November 2023, which was from an isolationist perspective.

In July 2025 she added an argument about the national debt and humanitarian grounds and referred to it as a genocide. This started just after the Holy Family Church got bombed on 17 July 2025. At that time a few right wing Christian influencers started turning on Israel in response - Michael Knowles, Matt Walsh - who are Catholics. She was raised Catholic as well, it's probably related to that.
 
moosaev said:
There is literally no equivalence between Isis and Hamas. Hamas is a nationalist movement, ISIS is a millenarian extremist movement that doesn’t even believe in the concept of national borders. Different ideologies, different aims, different methods. Netanyahu’s strategy all along was to prop up Hamas and beat down the PA, he was caught on camera saying that. Other Israeli leaders have publicly said Hamas is an asset and the PA is a liability. And now they’re “ISIS” loool. Israeli propaganda is a hell if a thing.
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I agree with your general premise, but I think when people refer to ISIS, I suspect it's more about the brutality of the October 7th massacre. Point blank executions of young people begging for their lives, livestreaming the killings and uploading the deaths of the victims to their facebook pages, calling the families of the dead from the dead relatives phone to mock them, beheadings, burnings, parading the corpses on trucks in Gaza, etc. It was beyond a resistance operation, it was terrorism.

That said, I disagree with DevilsSon's post about Hamas going 'beyond' Lehi and Irgun given their massacres: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

When you start going through the 100 years or so of conflict, across the various theatres of war, there is some really brutal stuff when it comes to civilian massacres and retaliatory massacres between Palestinian and Israeli militias and military forces. Nobody comes out looking good.
 
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Yet people keep falling for the propaganda

yea it's a war zone but some levels and claims are Bollywood staged.

 
moosaev said:
There is literally no equivalence between Isis and Hamas. Hamas is a nationalist movement, ISIS is a millenarian extremist movement that doesn’t even believe in the concept of national borders. Different ideologies, different aims, different methods. Netanyahu’s strategy all along was to prop up Hamas and beat down the PA, he was caught on camera saying that. Other Israeli leaders have publicly said Hamas is an asset and the PA is a liability. And now they’re “ISIS” loool. Israeli propaganda is a hell if a thing.
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Again, Israel didn’t even want Hamas on the ballot and contemplated invading to remove Hamas from power after they won. The people of Gaza are solely responsible for Hamas being in power. They chose Hamas over fatah.
 
BAM said:
I agree with your general premise, but I think when people refer to ISIS, I suspect it's more about the brutality of the October 7th massacre. Point blank executions of young people begging for their lives, livestreaming the killings and uploading the deaths of the victims to their facebook pages, calling the families of the dead from the dead relatives phone to mock them, beheadings, burnings, parading the corpses on trucks in Gaza, etc. It was beyond a resistance operation, it was terrorism.

That said, I disagree with DevilsSon's post about Hamas going 'beyond' Lehi and Irgun given their massacres: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

When you start going through the 100 years or so of conflict, across the various theatres of war, there is some really brutal stuff when it comes to civilian massacres and retaliatory massacres between Palestinian and Israeli militias and military forces. Nobody comes out looking good.
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When Israel compares Hamas to ISIS it’s for a very specific reason. Israel does not want outsiders asking deeper questions about what’s happeneing on the ground in Gaza, or what issues are actually driving this conflict. ISIS is such a widely despised organization that it provokes an emotive response that makes people see red, Israel wants everyone to just shut their brains off and let them do whatever they want to Gaza. Making people believe Hamas=ISIS will greatly help them do this.
 
Anyone else find it odd that Netanyahu's advisors are all funded by Qatar, the same government that funds Hamas? WEIRD!

 
Siver! said:
3 laughing emoji in a row from @ShadowRun, not a single post outlining his thoughts....

Guess old boy didn't see the missive: if you can't make your point with words, don't bother with the histrionics - you'll only get carded.
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Yeah, it's like he's throwing a middle finger right in @Strychnine face. I know I wouldn't take that...
 
ShadowRun said:
You and @Siver! Are a bunch of crying vags, this is the WR. Not some rainbow safe space or Reddit
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Oh, believe me, I wish the gloves were allowed to be fully off. I wouldn't be discussing in such a reserved manner on here. However, if I'm going to be subjected to censorship and forced to be restrained in my words and behavior, so should you.
 
Siver! said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Hundreds of Israeli ex-officials appeal to Trump to help end Gaza war

"End the war", said the letter to Trump by a former prime minister as well as former heads of Israeli intelligence agencies.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

Israelis: Hamas no longer poses a security threat.

Time to run yourselves an update. Hamas are now nothing but an excuse. One that should never have flown in the first place as its still not justification for what we've seen - any more than Israel's extremist terrorist government was a valid excuse for the Hamas attacks on Israeli civilians.

There are better ways to bring home the hostages.
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It's been a year that they have been eradicated. Everyone knows that
 
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