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Great wrestlers whose wrestling doesn't translate to MMA?

AndrewGolota48

AndrewGolota48

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I might be alone on this, but I have a feeling that this will happen with Bo Nickal. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he will have terrible wrestling or anything but I do feel like it will not be effective against higher level opponents, and I also even think that his TDD won't be ironclad. I suspect that RDR will take him down at some point in their fight, if it takes place.

But while on that topic, I was watching some Amir Aliakbari fights. This guy is a higher level wrestler than Bo on paper, he was literally a gold medalist at the world championships, basically just like winning Olympic gold. Yes he had it overturned due to PEDs, but fuck if you're winning gold medals you're serious damn wrestler, PEDs withstanding.

Anyway he has never been a dominant wrestler in MMA. In his recent fight against Bucheca he gets taken down easily by a BJJ guy. His wrestling simply is not very effective in MMA, despite the credentials.

Then you have cases like Usman or Jones that have manhandled higher level wrestlers on paper like Woodley and Bader. Tito did so with Matyushenko. There are just countless examples. His Penn State brethren Ed Ruth got outwrestled in MMA.

So to assume that Bo is just automatically going to be impossible to take down or a dominant wrestler offensively is to ignore hordes of objective evidence. I can already see just from the small sampling of his fights so far that his wrestling simply will not translate the way people are expecting it to. I hope I'm wrong because I love the guy and I think it would be incredibly epic if he was the one guy that could stand up to Khamzat and best him in the wrestling department, but I fear there is zero chance of that.
 
I feel like a bit factor in MMA can be how effectively someone can close the distance, either via having a decent striking game and potentially linking their wrestling into it or just by being agile. Thats not something you need to do in wrestling but its potentially a massive factor in MMA.

People like Coleman, Kerr, Lesnar, etc were not good strikers BUT they were all agile in a way someone like Aliebari just isnt, they could all shoot in and force though a single/double leg from range. Granted his background his Greco but if seems like he really struggles to turn fights into wrestling matches, if he could do that I think he'd likely have done much better even with the very rudimentary striking as he does at least show a good amount of toughness.

As far as being taken down by a BJJ guy I think a big issue there is that a lot of wrestlers are not trained to avoid the ground, in wrestling a lot of the time your defence is the threat of your offence, people won't overcommit against you for fear of being taken down themselves but if your just straight up avoiding the ground you loose that and you get dights like Sonnen/Maia.
 
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Mma is different just the distance of engagement. Then pressed against the.cage the takedown is easy but so.is standing up. Bjj wrestling is almost exactly like mma so it works better. These guys have to train a completely different way
 
JoeRowe said:
"I might alone on this", lol no this seems to be the consensus on Sherdog.

Rinya Nakamura is a great example. Olympic caliber but not so great in mma
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Many people think he won't be a great MMA fighter due to bad striking, but fewer believe that his wrestling itself won't be that great in MMA. Like they think he would lose to Khamzat because they would both keep it on the feet and Khamzat would knock him out, but I actually think Khamzat could take him down at will in MMA.
 
AndrewGolota48 said:
I might be alone on this, but I have a feeling that this will happen with Bo Nickal. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he will have terrible wrestling or anything but I do feel like it will not be effective against higher level opponents, and I also even think that his TDD won't be ironclad. I suspect that RDR will take him down at some point in their fight, if it takes place.

But while on that topic, I was watching some Amir Aliakbari fights. This guy is a higher level wrestler than Bo on paper, he was literally a gold medalist at the world championships, basically just like winning Olympic gold. Yes he had it overturned due to PEDs, but fuck if you're winning gold medals you're serious damn wrestler, PEDs withstanding.

Anyway he has never been a dominant wrestler in MMA. In his recent fight against Bucheca he gets taken down easily by a BJJ guy. His wrestling simply is not very effective in MMA, despite the credentials.

Then you have cases like Usman or Jones that have manhandled higher level wrestlers on paper like Woodley and Bader. Tito did so with Matyushenko. There are just countless examples. His Penn State brethren Ed Ruth got outwrestled in MMA.

So to assume that Bo is just automatically going to be impossible to take down or a dominant wrestler offensively is to ignore hordes of objective evidence. I can already see just from the small sampling of his fights so far that his wrestling simply will not translate the way people are expecting it to. I hope I'm wrong because I love the guy and I think it would be incredibly epic if he was the one guy that could stand up to Khamzat and best him in the wrestling department, but I fear there is zero chance of that.
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There isn't enough tape on Bo in MMA for me to make an ironclad statement but I have a feeling you aren't wrong.

Usman is a D2 champion
Jones was a great wrestler as well JUCO champion
 
Eric Silva 2.0 said:
There isn't enough tape on Bo in MMA for me to make an ironclad statement but I have a feeling you aren't wrong.

Usman is a D2 champion
Jones was a great wrestler as well JUCO champion
Click to expand...

Usman and Jones are definitely accomplished wrestlers, I was just noting that on paper Usman should not have been able to manhandled Woodley like that, it was complete ultra domination, and Jones should not have been able to outwrestle DC in their first fight. Just because you're a better wrestler in wrestling doesn't mean you will be in MMA. GSP is obviously one of the most extreme examples of that, did not officially wrestle growing up by somehow outwrestled Koscheck.

It used to matter a lot more, but heck we're almost getting to the point where it's hardly relevant anymore.
 
AndrewGolota48 said:
He was already old and worried he would gas.
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I seen that opinion in this thread a few times. I think that's cope. He rarely even tried, he had tons of close decisions that he could have won securing position in the last round with zero attempts to do so. He's always had super low fight IQ and just wanted to brawl.
 
AndrewGolota48 said:
Usman and Jones are definitely accomplished wrestlers, I was just noting that on paper Usman should not have been able to manhandled Woodley like that, it was complete ultra domination, and Jones should not have been able to outwrestle DC in their first fight. Just because you're a better wrestler in wrestling doesn't mean you will be in MMA. GSP is obviously one of the most extreme examples of that, did not officially wrestle growing up by somehow outwrestled Koscheck.

It used to matter a lot more, but heck we're almost getting to the point where it's hardly relevant anymore.
Click to expand...
I think my point was picking guys that were great wrestlers but on paper were inferior to their opponents 'credentials'.

I would put GSP in a different category since he didn't have a wrestling background at all. I think the distinction is important.
 
If you’re not from the Caucasus region then there’s a very high chance you’re a wrestling fraud.
 
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