Grappling with strikes

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by TheHereticJay, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. TheHereticJay

    TheHereticJay I scoff at your belt rankings

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    For those of you who train mma or combat jiu jitsu(is this still a thing?) What's your take on grappling with strikes? Other than the obvious of it being harder to get your hand in places.

    For those who play a lot of guard, do you still try to work your guard game and look for openings between strikes? Or do you change your game to be a more top player so you're not getting pounded on?

    Top players, do you grapple as you normally would with little taps here and there or do you actually throw a lot of strikes to find openings at the risk of getting off balanced?

    Just wondering, because since starting to grapple with strikes I find I play a drastically different game and pass differently then I do when no strikes involved
     
  2. 0r3o

    0r3o Orange Belt

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    There is alot of stuff that you can do when you are not getting punched in the face. Trying to go deep half is fine when you take away punches. You try to deep half me when I can punch you ... I punch you and you will more than likely stop doing what you are doing. It makes jiu jitsu so much easier. My coach says ... when some is doing jiu jitsu you punch them. When they block your punches you start doing your jiu jitsu. They go back to jiu jitsu and you punch them. Its a never ending cycle.
     
  3. Grapplingwizard**

    Grapplingwizard** Banned Banned

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    My Top game is basically the same but I can punch them. You can use punches to set up some subs. On bottom I use a lot of wrist and posture control. When you go from grappling to grappling with strikes, you will find that anything you can do from top position is the same but its easier cause you can throw punches. On bottom it's way different.
     
  4. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    My guard game doesn't change that much, but that's because of my personal style and preferences. I do change my tactics though. You have to be a lot more mindful of controlling distance, and you're a lot more active and focused on defending the strikes. What gives me trouble is when the opponent stands up. That's when you have to get a move on. But in general, strikes or not, my bottom game has become more of a sweeping game, and I always look for the takedown in the first place. With strikes, I look for subs from the bottom, but I'm thinking sweep when I get them.

    From top, my passing tends to be lower and tighter because of the risk of up-kicks, and because a lot of times they're trying to get up. But aside from that, I use the same passes that I normally would in no gi.
     
  5. esteven

    esteven Blue Belt

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    Coming from a background of striking and self-defense-oriented arts, I have a tenancy to include "punch awareness" in my bottom game regardless of the setting. Not ideal for comps, but my prerogative nonetheless. Because of this, I my guard actually improves when rolling with strikes. The biggest difference for my is my sense of urgency when in side control. Also, the best openings aren't between strikes, but during them; like you mentioned, it's more difficult to keep balance when you're punching. When the other guy is punching, it also gives a LOT more space to escape or reverse from side control.

    From top, I don't do a whole lot different, for mostly this reason. I find that I punch a bit, but after a while, I just go right back to my regular top game. I guess I need to get better at maintaining control while punching!
     
  6. RJ Green

    RJ Green Black Belt

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    i don't want to be on my back when there's striking. i'm essentially immobile. at least i can bob and weave on my feet.

    i'd take guard over half guard, and half guard over under mount, but yeah, if you're grappling with strikes and you're on the bottom, you're doing it wrong.
     
  7. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    If strikes are involved being on the bottom means you've messed up. I don't play around with fancy guard work; I either sweep from closed guard/butterfly (I try to keep tight to them with their posture broken as much as possible in both), use feet-on-hips to make space and stand up, or go for a takedown from sitting guard. If I catch a submission during any of these then great, otherwise I'm trying to get back on top or stand. Not-so-incidentally this is also my philosophy when strikes aren't involved.
     
  8. esteven

    esteven Blue Belt

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    Well, saying that is kind of like saying you messed up if you're under mount; what about when you ARE there?
     
  9. TheHereticJay

    TheHereticJay I scoff at your belt rankings

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    My bottom game is relatively the same with or without strikes except for the addition of sweeps instead of constantly looking for a sub. I like closed guard and if they get past to half I keep them close as possible.

    It's just the top game I am drastically different, almost a totally different grappler. Standing passes become low and tight passes, leg locks are now a second option rather than my first, posture is terrible when in guard, kob becomes nonexistent, overall my mindset goes straight to "any space created is bad" vs my normal "give em space to work, they'll make a mistake".

    I'm not necessarily looking to stand because I feel I have the advantage on the ground vs in the td or striking departments. So keeping it on the ground is my number one priority, one way or another.
     
  10. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    Erm, wasn't 90% of my post about what I do when I find myself in guard? :icon_conf

    Knee-on-Belly/Knee-on-Throat is awesome with strikes. Give it a chance.
     
  11. I train at an MMA gym and like 90% of the time we grapple with strikes. Sometimes it's hard for me to do pure grappling without strikes... harder to set up moves without distracting punches to the face.
     
  12. Protectandserve

    Protectandserve Red Belt

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    I like it, gives you some set ups that are not available in just pure grappling. You can catch people with strikes when they are in pure grappling mode and you can catch them with subs when they get strike heavy. It is way more taxing though.
     
  13. esteven

    esteven Blue Belt

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    My bad. Misread "aren't" as "are." Confused me a bit there!
     
  14. Waldorf

    Waldorf Blue Belt

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    I didn't play a lot of overlook wrist control until I started using it for MMA and now it is a main part of my regular bjj guard game.
     
  15. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    Not going to lie, I'm shocked at the amount of people saying there bottom game isn't different.:icon_conf
     
  16. esteven

    esteven Blue Belt

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    I'm not; for guys who train jiu-jitsu for MMA, it makes sense to always play your bottom game as though punches were a risk.
     
  17. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    Hmm..... I took it as does your BJJ game change when you add strikes. Maybe I read it wrong.
     
  18. esteven

    esteven Blue Belt

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    That's right. But some guys (especially those who train primarily for MMA or self defense) always roll as though strikes are allowed (even when they're not). That lets them train the moves and styles that work well for what they do, without having to change it up. Complicated sportive guard games are great for BJJ competition, but not at all for MMA, so if you're training for MMA, it makes sense to keep your guard game close and basic.
     
  19. Title Fight Productions

    Title Fight Productions Steel Belt

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    Lol, well then the question has point. "guys who roll for MMA primarily are primarily going to roll like its MMA"............... You don't say:p
     
  20. luckyshot

    luckyshot Guest

    Without strikes I really take my time passing guard and setting up submission; with strikes I am generally able to advance much more quickly. Also, without strikes, my takedown game is about 30% as effective; all of my best takedowns come off of striking combinations.

    My guard game is about the same, but like I said, that is because I always trained with strikes, so I never developed some of the bad habits for MMA that a lot of BJJ guys have with their guards. I am either super tight with at least one very solid over or under hook or I am scrambling back to my feet like the mat is on fire.
     

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