Gracie Barra a mcdojo?

[Calibur]

Schools run by blue or purples aren't official GB schools but are considered affliate schools

Lol. Please explain the difference. From where I sit the only difference is at the official school the guy you pay to watch you upa during the belt test actually remembers your name.

Maybe.

 

[Daveb]

Well we don't do belt testing at GB. You get promoted at the end of class when the Instructor feels like giving you a promotion. As far how it works in Albuquerque we have 3 official schools run by blackbelts.

In southern NM we have an affliate school called 3 Crosses BJJ in a town called Las Cruces. There instructor is now a brown but started the school as a blue because there was no one to train him in Las Cruces. He would drive up to Albuquerque a few times a month to continue learning and then teach his students in Cruces. Also his students can come train in ABQ at no cost. His has also produced 2011 Blue Belt NoGI Pan Am Champ Roberto Nava so he seems to be a pretty good teacher

 

[Calibur]

Well we don't do belt testing at GB. You get promoted at the end of class when the Instructor feels like giving you a promotion.

Are you saying no Gracie barras do belt testing?

 

[Daveb]

None that I know of. I've trained at quite a few and worked at GB Long Beach and Gb NM and have never heard or seen any belt testing. My Professor Roberto Tussa just calls you out at the end of class.

I've said before I'm not a big fan of all the new rules at GB but as far as my Academy as long as the training is top notch then I won't make a big deal of having to wear a GB gi.

 

[Calibur]

If that's your experience than I guess I got nothing to say.

 

[Daveb]

Have you seen belt testing at GB? I've never been to any school that did it and I always wondered how that works. If I refuse to pay a testing fee do they leave me at white belt for eternity?

 

[Oldguy]

McDojo to me means a crappy school that teaches questionable techniques that have little chance of working in real life. Also, the McDojos I have seen tend to have lots of people with overinflated rankings and egos that do not have a clue that they are in a McDojo because they have never actually realistically tested their techniques against a resisting opponent.

It is worth mentioning that, when I trained with him in 1993, Rickson did not test for belts.

 

[Calibur]

Have you seen belt testing at GB? I've never been to any school that did it and I always wondered how that works. If I refuse to pay a testing fee do they leave me at white belt for eternity?

Lol. Yes.

I had the syllabus for a while. Geacie Barra letterhead and everything. This was from 2006.

Basically it was blue belts had to know pretty much two moves from every basic position.

The purple belt test was exactly the same except you had to do 3 moves from every position not 2. The brightest Jiu Jitsu minds worked long and hard on that one.

 

[Daveb]

Lol. Yes.

I had the syllabus for a while. Geacie Barra letterhead and everything. This was from 2006.

Basically it was blue belts had to know pretty much two moves from every basic position.

The purple belt test was exactly the same except you had to do 3 moves from every position not 2. The brightest Jiu Jitsu minds worked long and hard on that one.

Well that is certainly BS and I wouldn't be staying with a school if that was their standards

 

[nefti]

Are you saying no Gracie barras do belt testing?

to be honest that's a loaded question. It's hard to say that "no" gracie barras do belt testing because it's impossible to go to every Gracie Barra. When one says "alliance has no testing" or "Gracie Barra has no testing" they usually mean the associaction has no formal testing as an org. Ofcoruse like any large org no one can be certain about all schools. Heck i knew an alliace school that tested for blues.

BTW haven't people had this conversation with you about Barra and testing on this forum on more than one occasion?

 

[brollikk]

When a LOT of people train a martial art, the standards just get lower and lower.

Instructors these days will most likely not with-hold a blue belt from a person who trained somewhat consistently for ~2 years.

I know this is against what most hard-core "I WANNA BE THE NEXT RAFA MENDES" type guys (myself included) think of, but it is just what is happening naturally.

Bjj has changed for sure, people do not get stuck at white belt for eternity anymore.

 

[slideyfoot]

Are you saying no Gracie barras do belt testing?

Interesting that you've been to one that did: which one was it, out of interest?

Before you said it, I'd not heard of any GBs doing belt tests, here in the UK or elsewhere, though it is becoming increasingly common in other organisations. I know that Alliance does them, Roy Harris has done them for a long time, so has Pedro Sauer, and so do at least some ATT schools.

 

[redaxe]

People used to get stuck at white belt for eternity because they didn't have consistent access to instructors who were qualified to promote them.

Blue and purple belts are only supposed to start schools in areas where there just aren't any black belts around.

If you train consistently under a black belt for two years, you should be blue belt level. There is no excuse anymore. GB actually takes attendance to make sure you've put in the mat time. As long as you show up enough times and try to learn, you will get promoted. Belts are not about who can tap whom. "Standards" are not about who can tap whom, and they are also not getting lower. People are just learning faster because they have more access to quality instruction than they did back in the day.

And I've never seen a belt test or a promotion fee at Gracie Barra. You don't even have to buy the belt itself, they give you one when they promote you. The only fees we pay are a small initiation fee (which often gets waived anyway), the monthly tuition (which is very reasonable and month-to-month), and the cost of a Gracie Barra gi and rashguard. GB is a for-profit business, but it is an honest one. I've never felt like GB was doing anything shady or trying to get me to spend my money without giving me something of value in return.

 

[SleepBomb**]

When a LOT of people train a martial art, the standards just get lower and lower.

um, but bjj is a little different.

we roll, we compete, we actually use bjj against a resisting opponent so this helps take out the BS.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

um, but bjj is a little different.

we roll, we compete, we actually use bjj against a resisting opponent so this helps take out the BS.

True, but the amount of people that compete is alot smaller than the amount that chooses not to. The ones that do compete do bring some quality control in their own academies, but it is not uncommon these days for instructors to grade competitors differently or hold to a different standard than those who do not compete.

And on top of that, when you have an organization that is made up of many schools and instructors and students, quality control gets difficult to manage. So standardization is implemented, and it runs the risk of stifling individualism, creativity, and some instructors will undoubtedly be forced to adopt a more lenient grading criteria, either because they tend to be harsher with promotions, or simply because the caliber of students at their academy is very high (i.e. significant amount of competitors), or both.

Not saying that's what's happening at Barra per se (at least not from my experiences at GB), just wanted to point out that brolikk's point is valid, especially when one views the end product of "TMAs" growing and expanding in the 70s and 80s.

The GBs I went to adhered to the curriculum but didn't mean that there wasn't other stuff taught or that you couldn't get answers to more esoteric questions, and there certainly wasn't any discouraging of techniques that weren't on the curriculum. And there were no formal testings where you had to pay a fee, and that grading timeline that people like to post in these kind of threads were very much used as a guideline for minimum time requirements, rather than a strict schedule with no flexibility.

 

[LJS30]

Mcdojo was the term for franchised systems with black belt programs etc.

Tiger Schulman wrote the book on this but as a karate teacher he has more successful mma guys than most.

The irony to asking a question about GB is at least a third of the audience (including myself) are going to be connected to them.

You can't expect people to undermine their training by talking bluntly about what Gracie Barra is.

Gracie Barra is a systemized martial arts franchise. It is a McDojo. It is not Bullshido which is what most are thinking.

Personally I think both terms are silly but if the mcdojo term bugs you that is something you're gonna have to deal with personally. It is what it is.

Well I remember being on the forums back in the late 90's early 2000's when McDojo was coined as the term for cheap belt promotions and fraudulent instructors. McDojo and Bullshido were used all in the same from my recollection. Either way they are both insulting to what is a legit school.

 

[slideyfoot]

Well I remember being on the forums back in the late 90's early 2000's when McDojo was coined as the term for cheap belt promotions and fraudulent instructors. McDojo and Bullshido were used all in the same from my recollection. Either way they are both insulting to what is a legit school.

Apparently, there is a difference between 'bullshido' and 'McDojo'. The former refers to sub-par teaching and training, whereas the latter is specifically about the business practices. Under those definitions, it is possible to be a McDojo, but still provide awesome training (e.g., some people might accuse Gracie University of being McDojo, due to things like online belt testing and distance learning, but the actual instruction is very good). For some discussion of the differences, see this Bullshido.net thread, which as far as I'm aware is the site that invented the term (the site was originally called McDojo.com, but changed it after some complaints from McDonalds' lawyers).

 

[Commissar]

Apparently, there is a difference between 'bullshido' and 'McDojo'. The former refers to sub-par teaching and training, whereas the latter is specifically about the business practices. Under those definitions, it is possible to be a McDojo, but still provide awesome training (e.g., some people might accuse Gracie University of being McDojo, due to things like online belt testing and distance learning, but the actual instruction is very good). For some discussion of the differences, see this Bullshido.net thread, which as far as I'm aware is the site that invented the term (the site was originally called McDojo.com, but changed it after some complaints from McDonalds' lawyers).

I agree with this; however, based on the experiences of people who actually have experience with Gracie Barra, it clearly cannot be considered a McDojo.

 

[Calibur]

I agree with this; however, based on the experiences of people who actually have experience with Gracie Barra, it clearly cannot be considered a McDojo.

Because you've framed the situation that way.

In your mind...

Mcdojo=bad

Gracie Barra = not bad

Therefore Gracie Barra =\= mcdojo.

 

[johnkreese]

Next week, when my school is open, I'm going to ask my teacher to make a video answering this question. He's been training for 25 years, and got his BB from Carlos Jr at Gracie Barra. He's told me on many occaisions that there's no difference between american blue belts and brazilian blue belts.