Grabbing the Fence Warning

[Mikeyz]

I'm in the middle of watching the latest episode of TUF 18 and I just watched Herb Dean tell a fighter to not grab the fence and it's his only warning. Why do refs afford a warning?

Not grabbing the fence is a rule that all fighters are made aware of and, without any proof to back this claim up, it might be something the refs go over during their pre-fight talks with the fighters. If the pre-fight discussion doesn't explain that grabbing the fence is a violation of the rules, then it should be implemented. Doing so would enable an instant point reduction for violating the rule and I believe we would see a very sharp reduction in the number of times fighters do reach for the wire. Just my two cents...

They don't mean to, it's just instinct and the refs don't want to decide the outcome of a fight like taking a point away unless they are sure that the fighter is purposely grabbing the fence

 

[kpt018]

They don't mean to, it's just instinct and the refs don't want to decide the outcome of a fight like taking a point away unless they are sure that the fighter is purposely grabbing the fence

But the alternative, the grabbing of the fence, can also determine the outcome of the fight.

 

[lolcat15]

I believe grabbing the fence should be penalized. Yes its our instinct to attack or kill people who attack us but authorities will always catch you.

 

[IloveTHIS]

People who harp on this have probably not watched the fight in a long time or at all, Chad took him down with that same body lock literally less than a second later and Aldo popped right back up.

yes..but the momentum he had with the first big attempt was stopped. he had to reground himself and explode again with another slam. the slightest change can drastically alter a fight. For all we know he would have slammed Jose on his head and knocked him out if he didnt grab the fence.

 

[Nihilism]

That's the problem, it's a judgement call. I don't care if it's instinctual or not, it changes the fight.

This sport is predicated on the subjectivity of the judges and referees. This is only one of many judgement calls a ref has to make.

I don't think you're taking into consideration the amount of fights where your preferred fighter had won, but would have lost had he been deducted a point for a fence grab that may or may not have been intentional.

Generally, they don't affect the outcome of a fight. If a momentary fence grab was the only thing standing between fighter A defeating fighter B, then holy shit, fighter A sucks.

Aldo should have been deducted a fight. That was not momentary. That was some bull shit.

 

[countswagula]

yes..but the momentum he had with the first big attempt was stopped. he had to reground himself and explode again with another slam. the slightest change can drastically alter a fight. For all we know he would have slammed Jose on his head and knocked him out if he didnt grab the fence.

By that logic every fence grab, low blow, accidental eye poke and whatnot should be an instant DQ because the fight could have potentially gone the other way if it wasn't for that.

 

[baconcow]

I just rewatched JDS vs Cain II and JDS grabbed the fence more than once and, to my knowledge, did not have a point deducted. Fence warnings ARE useless. They stop takedowns from happening, some of the time, and can even change the outcome of a fight.

 

[arturo_caap]

Have you never tipped your chair back on two legs at school, and then fallen? What do you do the moment you realize you've lost control of your balance? You reach out to grab something. It's instinct.

Initial and momentary fence grabs should never be penalized.

And last night on TUF outlines why I like Herb Dean. He threatened to take a point away if the guy did it again, and the guy did do it again, but Herb didn't take a point away. Obviously because he felt a momentary grab of the fence is not done with the intent to cheat.

You can't just follow your instinct that's why there are rules. Coleman's instinct is to headbutt as soon get you to the mat, but can't do it anymore, because there are rules.

 

[Nihilism]

People who harp on this have probably not watched the fight in a long time or at all, Chad took him down with that same body lock literally less than a second later and Aldo popped right back up.

Sorry, but that is a moot point. Aldo landed on one foot and one knee. There's no way of knowing how he would have landed with the first attempt.

And since you point out that it was the same lock, it should be pointed out that that is the same lock that Aldo reversed to KO Mendes. Thus, it can be argued that that blatant fence grab served him well in that fight.

 

[Nihilism]

You can't just follow your instinct that's why there are rules. Coleman's instinct is to headbutt as soon get you to the mat, but can't do it anymore, because there are rules.

No, that isn't instinct. Habits and instincts are not the same thing.

 

[bat_country]

Personally I'm fine with one warning but it drives me crazy when a fighter gets a warning, then another one, then another one, etc.
One warning then start taking points.

 

[Mikeyz]

But the alternative, the grabbing of the fence, can also determine the outcome of the fight.

Touche. But like I said, the majority of the time it is just instinct.

 

[SallySueSo]

So, why don't the refs at the start of each fight, tell the fighters that they have been warned not to grab the fence, doing so will result in a point deduction. There is your done deal, an instinctual or intentional grab results in the point being deducted. Like many have said before, it takes away from the issue of refs continually offering warnings and never actually acting on their warnings and it sets a precident.

 

[mmaelitefan000]

i feel fighters should be allowed to grab the fence once and if they do it again they lose a point for that round

 

[Barkus]

I think the problem is the punishment is too severe.

Unlike boxing where a point deduction gets diluted in the 12 round format, a point deduction in a 3 round fight is often fight changing. It's a hard spot for refs to be in.

 

[SallySueSo]

I think the problem is the punishment is too severe.

Unlike boxing where a point deduction gets diluted in the 12 round format, a point deduction in a 3 round fight is often fight changing. It's a hard spot for refs to be in.

All the reason why if it was established that a point gets deducted for the grab, I think we'd see them disappear quick. From the fighters' standpoint, it'd be pretty stupid to lose a fight due to the fence grab.

 

[Otto!]

Have you never tipped your chair back on two legs at school, and then fallen? What do you do the moment you realize you've lost control of your balance? You reach out to grab something. It's instinct.

Initial and momentary fence grabs should never be penalized.

And last night on TUF outlines why I like Herb Dean. He threatened to take a point away if the guy did it again, and the guy did do it again, but Herb didn't take a point away. Obviously because he felt a momentary grab of the fence is not done with the intent to cheat.

Good distinction that you made there between intentional and instinctual. If a fighter does it by instinct with no cheating intent (hard to tell in any case), then he should get a warning but if grabbing the fence prevented a take down the fight should be restarted on the ground as if the takedown had happened.

 

[trident]

Have you never tipped your chair back on two legs at school, and then fallen? What do you do the moment you realize you've lost control of your balance? You reach out to grab something. It's instinct.

Initial and momentary fence grabs should never be penalized.

And last night on TUF outlines why I like Herb Dean. He threatened to take a point away if the guy did it again, and the guy did do it again, but Herb didn't take a point away. Obviously because he felt a momentary grab of the fence is not done with the intent to cheat.

Totally. We learned it from when we were monkeys living in trees. That being said, a warning and then a point for the second infraction. I don't like the 10 point must system but I don't like fence grabbing either. Also, if it clearly stops an otherwise takedown, I think it should be restarted from a ground position.

It's a tough call, because it is so instinctual , but it is a rule that does not gt enforced enough.

 

[Headk1ck]

All the reason why if it was established that a point gets deducted for the grab, I think we'd see them disappear quick. From the fighters' standpoint, it'd be pretty stupid to lose a fight due to the fence grab.

Instinct

Have you never tipped your chair back on two legs at school, and then fallen? What do you do the moment you realize you've lost control of your balance? You reach out to grab something. It's instinct.

 

[Vince 562]

Apparently you get at least one free, blatant, fence grab, groin strike, or eye gouge. Sometimes even two.

IMO if it looks obviously intentional, all of the aforementioned illegal moves should result in a point loss on the first offense. All of those can change the outcome of a fight and they never get penalized on the first offense.