Gordon Ryan vs Kyle Boehm

[NSchoke]

He wasn't as big as he was when he dodge ALY so stop it lol . He sign up only to bow out of match.

You can't argue that.

You posted yourself that he didn't want a match like this where he could get injured just before a good paying match. He had the Vinny match shortly after right?
Paying to possibly be injured taking you out of a paying gig isn't a great move, most would agree with that.

Who else faced the current World Champ in their debut?

 

[kenetics]

You posted yourself that he didn't want a match like this where he could get injured just before a good paying match. He had the Vinny match shortly after right?
Paying to possibly be injured taking you out of a paying gig isn't a great move, most would agree with that.

Who else faced the current World Champ in their debut?

He sign up first, so obviously he wasnt worried about being injured or he wouldn't of sign in the first place.

He thought he was probably going to have some easy matches until ALY sign up. That boy unregistered quick and saved face by saying he had a paying gig a week after .

Alot of those guys have super fights lined up and still compete.

Don't say you're one of the best in GI and you can' smash them if your going to pull out. Doesn't matter if it's his first tournament, at black belt your in the shark tank.

Your making yourself look like a fool.

 

[NSchoke]

He sign up first, so obviously he wasnt worried about being injured or he wouldn't of sign in the first place.

He thought he was probably going to have some easy matches until ALY sign up. That boy unregistered quick and saved face by saying he had a paying gig a week after .

Alot of those guys have super fights lined up and still compete.

Don't say you're one of the best in GI and you can' smash them if your going to pull out. Doesn't matter if it's his first tournament, at black belt your in the shark tank.

Your making yourself look like a fool.

Obviously his choices are working out ok for him.

This wasn't the Pans or anything, it was a smaller tournament where I'd guess he expected to get some matches in.

He didn't have a Super fight a week later?

What other example do you have of guys taking on current World Champ and big Super Fight 2 weekends in a Row?

This is all to distract that he agreed to have training filmed with one of the top guys and the guy broke contract?
Seems pretty silly. Pulling out of a bracket is nowhere near breaking a contract.
Show me 1 more guy who's done what Kaynan did, I'll show you 10 who dropped or moved brackets.

 

[kenetics]

Obviously his choices are working out ok for him.

This wasn't the Pans or anything, it was a smaller tournament where I'd guess he expected to get some matches in.

He didn't have a Super fight a week later?

What other example do you have of guys taking on current World Champ and big Super Fight 2 weekends in a Row?

This is all to distract that he agreed to have training filmed with one of the top guys and the guy broke contract?
Seems pretty silly. Pulling out of a bracket is nowhere near breaking a contract.
Show me 1 more guy who's done what Kaynan did, I'll show you 10 who dropped or moved brackets.

Before the pandemic, guys were doing BJJ tournament and fight 2 win fights all the time. Are you kidding?

I'm curious, do you do BJJ and if so did you compete in GI and no-gi ?

 

[NSchoke]

Before the pandemic, guys were doing BJJ tournament and fight 2 win fights all the time. Are you kidding?

I'm curious, do you do BJJ and if so did you compete in GI and no-gi ?

What guys?

I'm a Black belt in BJJ, been training close to 20 years, have not competed in quite a few years. I have competed both coming up.

From what I've seen a good grappler is usually a good grappler. Some guys are very specialized one way or another. I don't see that in Gordon at this point. Theres nothing in his game that makes me think putting on a Gi is going to turn him to shit.
If Kaynan showed up to camp out of step as is stated, I believe he probably played Kaynan pretty even in the Gi- and did who knows what No-Gi.
Kaynan seems to play a fairly physical game not that focused on grips. If Gordon came in sharper and in better condition this is a big problem. He's too good to give away advantages.

We're going in circles here, I feel like I keep typing the same thing.

 

[kenetics]

What guys?

I'm a Black belt in BJJ, been training close to 20 years, have not competed in quite a few years. I have competed both coming up.

From what I've seen a good grappler is usually a good grappler. Some guys are very specialized one way or another. I don't see that in Gordon at this point. Theres nothing in his game that makes me think putting on a Gi is going to turn him to shit.
If Kaynan showed up to camp out of step as is stated, I believe he probably played Kaynan pretty even in the Gi- and did who knows what No-Gi.
Kaynan seems to play a fairly physical game not that focused on grips. If Gordon came in sharper and in better condition this is a big problem. He's too good to give away advantages.

We're going in circles here, I feel like I keep typing the same thing.

Ok, I was just wondering if I was speaking to a fan of BJJ lol. We just have different opinions . No biggie.

 

[NSchoke]

Ok, I was just wondering if I was speaking to a fan of BJJ lol. We just have different opinions . No biggie.

Happens

 

[Chandler sama]

Nobody knows what happened at that camp. I'd say Gordon beat Kay an fairly easily Nogi, and Kaynan doesn't seem to dispute this. In the gi Gordon beating up Kayan doesn't seem too likely. First of all not even Gordon says he beat Kayan in the gi and Gordon admitted before he wasn't ready to compete at the highest level in the gi. Now he's stopping training gi regularly, so why would he be able to beat Kayan? If he was beating Kayan fair and square in the gi he should sign up for worlds. He is able to beat the current champion with no training, so with just 1 month of training he should be able to easily win double gold. The whole narrative makes no sense.

 

[mataleaos]

What guys?

I'm a Black belt in BJJ, been training close to 20 years, have not competed in quite a few years. I have competed both coming up.

From what I've seen a good grappler is usually a good grappler. Some guys are very specialized one way or another. I don't see that in Gordon at this point. Theres nothing in his game that makes me think putting on a Gi is going to turn him to shit.
If Kaynan showed up to camp out of step as is stated, I believe he probably played Kaynan pretty even in the Gi- and did who knows what No-Gi.
Kaynan seems to play a fairly physical game not that focused on grips. If Gordon came in sharper and in better condition this is a big problem. He's too good to give away advantages.

We're going in circles here, I feel like I keep typing the same thing.

For what it’s worth I agree. If he wanted to do good I think he could. I rolled with him gi when I was a brown belt and he was going through his period of wanting to do gi. He felt sharp and he dusted up a room full of good (albeit non professional) brown and black belts.

 

[NSchoke]

Nobody knows what happened at that camp. I'd say Gordon beat Kay an fairly easily Nogi, and Kaynan doesn't seem to dispute this. In the gi Gordon beating up Kayan doesn't seem too likely. First of all not even Gordon says he beat Kayan in the gi and Gordon admitted before he wasn't ready to compete at the highest level in the gi. Now he's stopping training gi regularly, so why would he be able to beat Kayan? If he was beating Kayan fair and square in the gi he should sign up for worlds. He is able to beat the current champion with no training, so with just 1 month of training he should be able to easily win double gold. The whole narrative makes no sense.

If there never were any tape and these guys were just smack talking back and forth I'd agree with this because I think it's what everyone expected to happen.

BUT- given that you're scenario was probably the most likely one, why did Kaynan break contact?

It really seems like something happened they didn't expect when they signed, your scenario seems so reasonable it should have been expected.

 

[NSchoke]

For what it’s worth I agree. If he wanted to do good I think he could. I rolled with him gi when I was a brown belt and he was going through his period of wanting to do gi. He felt sharp and he dusted up a room full of good (albeit non professional) brown and black belts.

He comes in trying to conduct business and make a highlight reel, Kaynan comes in straight off a long vacation into a better vacation. What happens next?

Giving Gordon a head start seems like a bad idea regardless of clothing choice.

 

[yetanother]

What guys?

I'm a Black belt in BJJ, been training close to 20 years, have not competed in quite a few years. I have competed both coming up.

From what I've seen a good grappler is usually a good grappler. Some guys are very specialized one way or another. I don't see that in Gordon at this point. Theres nothing in his game that makes me think putting on a Gi is going to turn him to shit.
If Kaynan showed up to camp out of step as is stated, I believe he probably played Kaynan pretty even in the Gi- and did who knows what No-Gi.
Kaynan seems to play a fairly physical game not that focused on grips. If Gordon came in sharper and in better condition this is a big problem. He's too good to give away advantages.

We're going in circles here, I feel like I keep typing the same thing.

Kaynan relies on just grabbing pant sleeves and standing up from guard a ton.
Super hard to stop that against heavily roided out folk.

 

[Chandler sama]

If there never were any tape and these guys were just smack talking back and forth I'd agree with this because I think it's what everyone expected to happen.

BUT- given that you're scenario was probably the most likely one, why did Kaynan break contact?

It really seems like something happened they didn't expect when they signed, your scenario seems so reasonable it should have been expected.

The reason this all started is because Gordon wanted to make his own DVD using the footage. He wanted to commentate using the footage and show tech. He asked Mo(the person that set this up) about this and Mo said it was fine. He recorded everything for the DVD and then when it was ready told everyone about it. The other people were pissed off because they said they agreed to be filmed, but didn't agree to Gordon using the footage and commenting on it. This is when JT and Kaynan pulled out. Kaynan might have pulled out before this, but I know this is what upset JT. Mo talked to JT and agreed to be on the DVD that was released, but would not allow Gordon's DVD.

I imagine some of it is ego and they don't want people seeing them get beat. I think a larger part of it is Gordon's personality though. Gordon is often a jerk and insults people's skills while commentating. Mo took responsibility for this and said it was his fault because he told Gordon it was ok, but didn't inform the other participants of what Gordon was doing. Technically Mo, could have just given Gordon the rights since they signed the contract, but he didn't want to because obviously that would ruin the friendship between him and those people.

I don't know the exact reason why people wanted to pull out, but I'm guess it was a combo of a few things. 1). They were blind sided by it and they didn't sign up for that. 2).It most likely made them look bad. 3). Gordon might expose secrets about their game(Mike Perez refused to be filmed because of this reason) 4).Gordon was most likely going to insult them on the DVD.

Honesty I think if it was Craig Jones, Lachlan Giles, Mikey Musumesci, etc that did the same thing they would have allowed the DVD, but Gordon's reputation is so bad people go worried.

 

[mataleaos]

The reason this all started is because Gordon wanted to make his own DVD using the footage. He wanted to commentate using the footage and show tech. He asked Mo(the person that set this up) about this and Mo said it was fine. He recorded everything for the DVD and then when it was ready told everyone about it. The other people were pissed off because they said they agreed to be filmed, but didn't agree to Gordon using the footage and commenting on it. This is when JT and Kaynan pulled out. Kaynan might have pulled out before this, but I know this is what upset JT. Mo talked to JT and agreed to be on the DVD that was released, but would not allow Gordon's DVD.

I imagine some of it is ego and they don't want people seeing them get beat. I think a larger part of it is Gordon's personality though. Gordon is often a jerk and insults people's skills while commentating. Mo took responsibility for this and said it was his fault because he told Gordon it was ok, but didn't inform the other participants of what Gordon was doing. Technically Mo, could have just given Gordon the rights since they signed the contract, but he didn't want to because obviously that would ruin the friendship between him and those people.

I don't know the exact reason why people wanted to pull out, but I'm guess it was a combo of a few things. 1). They were blind sided by it and they didn't sign up for that. 2).It most likely made them look bad. 3). Gordon might expose secrets about their game(Mike Perez refused to be filmed because of this reason) 4).Gordon was most likely going to insult them on the DVD.

Honesty I think if it was Craig Jones, Lachlan Giles, Mikey Musumesci, etc that did the same thing they would have allowed the DVD, but Gordon's reputation is so bad people go worried.

Oh Gordon would definitely insult them to your point. It’s impossible for him to analyze footage without being harsh to anyone not on his team

 

[NSchoke]

The reason this all started is because Gordon wanted to make his own DVD using the footage. He wanted to commentate using the footage and show tech. He asked Mo(the person that set this up) about this and Mo said it was fine. He recorded everything for the DVD and then when it was ready told everyone about it. The other people were pissed off because they said they agreed to be filmed, but didn't agree to Gordon using the footage and commenting on it. This is when JT and Kaynan pulled out. Kaynan might have pulled out before this, but I know this is what upset JT. Mo talked to JT and agreed to be on the DVD that was released, but would not allow Gordon's DVD.

I imagine some of it is ego and they don't want people seeing them get beat. I think a larger part of it is Gordon's personality though. Gordon is often a jerk and insults people's skills while commentating. Mo took responsibility for this and said it was his fault because he told Gordon it was ok, but didn't inform the other participants of what Gordon was doing. Technically Mo, could have just given Gordon the rights since they signed the contract, but he didn't want to because obviously that would ruin the friendship between him and those people.

I don't know the exact reason why people wanted to pull out, but I'm guess it was a combo of a few things. 1). They were blind sided by it and they didn't sign up for that. 2).It most likely made them look bad. 3). Gordon might expose secrets about their game(Mike Perez refused to be filmed because of this reason) 4).Gordon was most likely going to insult them on the DVD.

Honesty I think if it was Craig Jones, Lachlan Giles, Mikey Musumesci, etc that did the same thing they would have allowed the DVD, but Gordon's reputation is so bad people go worried.

I can understand JT, I don't really agree with it because he and/or team could have released their own DVD. They'd even be able to see Gordons if they want so they could respond to his if that was an issue. I think everyone could have made more money, the fans could have gotten a lot more value and competitors could probably benefit from the commentary too. It just seems like a loss all around.
But if JT didn't agree to it, I can see him being upset. He still held what he agreed to.

Not wanting someone to shit talk you (certainly legit concern with Gordon) is quite different than refusing for footage to be released.

 

[NSchoke]

Oh Gordon would definitely insult them to your point. It’s impossible for him to analyze footage without being harsh to anyone not on his team

To be fair, they have the same opportunity to do it back. JT doesn't seem like this but a lot of Atos likes Drama- Andre is an instigator too.

 

[mataleaos]

To be fair, they have the same opportunity to do it back. JT doesn't seem like this but a lot of Atos likes Drama- Andre is an instigator too.

Very true.Good point. And yeah Andre is too. But I guess there's a specific way that Gordon talks where it seems like there's no in between. If someone isn't good then they suck. If a technique isn't great then it's trash. There's no shade of grey.

 

[KenkaBancho]

I can understand JT, I don't really agree with it because he and/or team could have released their own DVD. They'd even be able to see Gordons if they want so they could respond to his if that was an issue. I think everyone could have made more money, the fans could have gotten a lot more value and competitors could probably benefit from the commentary too. It just seems like a loss all around.
But if JT didn't agree to it, I can see him being upset. He still held what he agreed to.

Not wanting someone to shit talk you (certainly legit concern with Gordon) is quite different than refusing for footage to be released.

I’ve seen that argument raised before and I don’t think it’s a good one.

Ignoring Mo’s contract for a second, if I’m appearing in Gordon’s DVD which I know Gordon is profiting from, I should have a cut of the sale proceeds since I’m contributing to it’s creation by being an uke. It’s even arguable that the contract they signed with Mo was made with the mutual intention that they were agreeing to only appear in Mo’s DVD. This is likely because I don’t think that there was any possibility at the point of signing the contract, Gordon’s himself was even contemplating a DVD of his own. I would say there was even an arguable case if took to court.

Gordon also does insult people to the point their brands get damaged. I literally had no idea who Tim Spriggs was until I saw him in Gordon’s ADCC breakdown DVD and now my impression of him is that he’s really bad at BJJ. Amplify that by 1000 other viewers and you’ve lost 1000 potential students, dvd purchasers, academy revenue etc. If I’m Tim Spriggs, what am I supposed to do? Release my own “rebuttal” DVD? How many people are going to pay for “dueling” commentaries of the same match? It’s dumb business and only one guy gets to profit at the expense of others.

If Gordon really wanted to make money from his dvd he should have played nice and sent his footage to everyone else for approval. No fucking personal attacks, calling anyone stupid etc. If need be, agree to give them a small % of the proceeds. Maybe invite the others to include their own footage as well, and release a joint DVD. Or a series of DVDs. Anything resembling how a grown adult would behave to further their own interests. Instead, he chose to act like a child, have a bitch fit and piss everyone off even more. Probably to the point where none of the other guys would trust him to salvage the situation, and so the footage plummets in value. Classic definition of a lose-lose situation.

 

[NSchoke]

I’ve seen that argument raised before and I don’t think it’s a good one.

Ignoring Mo’s contract for a second, if I’m appearing in Gordon’s DVD which I know Gordon is profiting from, I should have a cut of the sale proceeds since I’m contributing to it’s creation by being an uke. It’s even arguable that the contract they signed with Mo was made with the mutual intention that they were agreeing to only appear in Mo’s DVD. This is likely because I don’t think that there was any possibility at the point of signing the contract, Gordon’s himself was even contemplating a DVD of his own. I would say there was even an arguable case if took to court.

Gordon also does insult people to the point their brands get damaged. I literally had no idea who Tim Spriggs was until I saw him in Gordon’s ADCC breakdown DVD and now my impression of him is that he’s really bad at BJJ. Amplify that by 1000 other viewers and you’ve lost 1000 potential students, dvd purchasers, academy revenue etc. If I’m Tim Spriggs, what am I supposed to do? Release my own “rebuttal” DVD? How many people are going to pay for “dueling” commentaries of the same match? It’s dumb business and only one guy gets to profit at the expense of others.

If Gordon really wanted to make money from his dvd he should have played nice and sent his footage to everyone else for approval. No fucking personal attacks, calling anyone stupid etc. If need be, agree to give them a small % of the proceeds. Maybe invite the others to include their own footage as well, and release a joint DVD. Or a series of DVDs. Anything resembling how a grown adult would behave to further their own interests. Instead, he chose to act like a child, have a bitch fit and piss everyone off even more. Probably to the point where none of the other guys would trust him to salvage the situation, and so the footage plummets in value. Classic definition of a lose-lose situation.

Mo owned the footage. He got permission from Mo. I can totally see where he would have thought that giving the footage to someone who asked to do a breakdown would be no big deal- it seems like that what they were there for, to train and try to make some money off it. It could also help encourage future camps if they can push more sales off of it.

Mo seems like a very nice guy, tried pointing the finger inward and keeping things kosher with everyone. He could have tried to get permission from everyone before he gave it to Gordon. It seems like he certainly could have kept Kaynan in the video and probably kept Gordons DVD to. He was in a tough spot. He's probably friends with these guys. Gordon will get over it quicker than those guys probably would have, he probably liked attacking them online over it. I think Mo made the right choice although I would like to see the Kaynan rolls and Gordons commentary.

It was known that some brought more value than others to begin with. They were paid in tiers. Their dvd sales probably would have tracked somewhat similar. I'm sure JT would have sold a lot of DVD's regardless of what Gordon said, Kaynan too. If they teamed up they could probably match/maybe exceed Gordons sales. The guy with the idea who is 1st to market should make more.

Gordon showed up in shape and thinking of more ways to make money. He came up with an idea that would sell. If those guys came up with the idea I would bet Gordon would just put his own DVD out in response.

Hopefully Mo keeps active in the BJJ community. He said ADCC 2021 is his last, I'm going. His production is fantastic.

 

[KenkaBancho]

The guy with the idea who is 1st to market should make more

I think this was such a key part of the agreement (if indeed it was) it’s a little unbelievable how Mo never thought to emphasise it to anyone.

He should have been warning them to perform well because anyone in that camp who “wins” at rolls may potentially put your “losing” rounds on the internet and charge fans for watching it etc. Also, if it’s Gordon Ryan doing the “winning”, he may be telling your potential customers how much you, your coach and your team SUCKS and how you grapple like an idiot or “jumps around in front of my guard without doing any jiu jitsu”.

I don’t know if Mo is a Danaher/Gordon fanboy or something but he sure seems to be unaware of Gordon’s marketing strategy which always seems to be at the expense of others. Or wilfully blind, take your pick.

When you’re getting DVD sellers across camps for this sort of project, you simply can’t afford to be this ignorant.

However, if he isn’t any of these things, then Gordon Ryan is just being a whiny child.