Gordon Ryan In The Gi, Nicky Ryan Heel Hooks, and Danaher Wisdom!

[BJJ_Rage]

it is but it

hurts guys more than helps at times when blue belts are trying to tell there black belt instructor they arnt doing moves correctly cause they saw a top level guy do it differently ect and tbh even blue is a bit to young to start doing super advanced positions

Depends who your coach is.... not every gym as a high level coach, and if some kid has been nerding online and his coach is not showing a move as good as it could be, some details that the kid could’ve picked up from watching some high level guy showing it online, i see nothing wrong doing the tech the way he saw it online. Of course he can run into parades type of shit too...

Blue belts can have 2 to 3 years of experience why wouldn’t he be doing “advance” stuff?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

i agre

e but i think developing a solid closed guard first is good to do cause guys today seem like they dont like being close they try to attack no gi with to much space thats why alot of guys dont like half they dont like the guy being that tight to them but some guys are super strong and stocky tow here you have to get tight to make something happen

here is the problem with jiu jitsu today ben askren also made a point about this that bjj guys wana learn a new move every class they want 3 new techniques there is just so many ways to play its beautiful that there are so many games but blue and purples are you-tubing daily trying to figure this whole game out that would take 4 life times

i started boxing when i was 14 boxings an art of basically 5 punches my gym had just 2 guys and me i got private lessons luckly and the first week i was only taught 1 punch every week jab cross hook uppercut and overhand right i had to shadow box 6 rounds with just the single punches iw as learning each week

imagine how many times a boxer throws a jab in practice vs how many times a guy practices a technique in grappling now boxers train years with those few punching techniques with foot work ect too but still just knowing a technique isnt good enough once you can hit those basics on guys very well then i say explore new options people today have too many techniques that they half way learn to me blues and purples were alot better in the mid 2000s and early 2010s due to having solid fundamentals and the techniques they sued were very solid vs guys today watching a youtube vid trying a move 3 times

Jesus no, white belts from this generation are better than blues and purples from 2000s, for fuck sakes is like saying the internet hurts people because it feeds too much info. People isn’t dumb and yes guys are watching a lot of techniques, but most likely, stick with what they are into that time... specially blues and purples. Keenan is on video literally saying that most of his training at Lloyd’s camp was watching stuff online and trying it with jt, Lloyd only supervising them.

If your a blue belt and expect your coja to be nany you through your journey, your wasting a hell Lot of time.

 

[tekkenfan]

yeah back in

Depends who your coach is.... not every gym as a high level coach, and if some kid has been nerding online and his coach is not showing a move as good as it could be, some details that the kid could’ve picked up from watching some high level guy showing it online, i see nothing wrong doing the tech the way he saw it online. Of course he can run into parades type of shit too...

Blue belts can have 2 to 3 years of experience why wouldn’t he be doing “advance” stuff?

the day guys needed youtube cause most coaches in mid 2000s when i started were blues or purple if you were lucky nowadays its hard to find a gym who doesnt at least have a brown belt this art is everywhere now

 

[tekkenfan]

Jesus no, white belts from this generation are better than blues and purples from 2000s, for fuck sakes is like saying the internet hurts people because it feeds too much info. People isn’t dumb and yes guys are watching a lot of techniques, but most likely, stick with what they are into that time... specially blues and purples. Keenan is on video literally saying that most of his training at Lloyd’s camp was watching stuff online and trying it with jt, Lloyd only supervising them.

If your a blue belt and expect your coja to be nany you through your journey, your wasting a hell Lot of time.

white belts today are better than purples of the 2000s? you really think that

 

[EGDM]

white belts today are better than purples of the 2000s? you really think that

No, but purple belts are probably as good as the black belts of the 2000s.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

white belts today are better than purples of the 2000s? you really think that

It was an hyperbole, but to be honest may be not the top purples, but white belts now have a millón times more info than what purples had back then, so a tip white belt from these days is going to wipe the floor with a top blue or even some come petite purple from back then...dude is like. You can be taught by roger Gracie marcelo García Rafa Mendez straight up back then you were confined on what you learn from your coach classmate and gyms around, unless you were a Traveler... it’s a nonsensical question, information it can never be considered to be a bad thing.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

yeah back in

the day guys needed youtube cause most coaches in mid 2000s when i started were blues or purple if you were lucky nowadays its hard to find a gym who doesnt at least have a brown belt this art is everywhere now

Yes, but there is a big ass difference between me teaching as a brown that I am, than what Rafa is teaching online... there a hundreds of black belts that are not really good at anything but persevering in the art. They might be good from a Hobbiest pov and persistent guys who got their black belts after training for 10 years, in which most of those years were just rolling and doing their prefers games, why would they be any good or better than some high level guy teaching online specially stuff that’s not part of their repertoire? Let’s not pretend every black belt it’s a high level guy, even high level instructor... having a instructor doesn’t mean you need to close your eyes and blindly accept everything he says, he’s there to guide you, but these days, you can most likely find better source of techniques than from him... (unless you are training under a top level instructor, which is not the case in most places)

 

[BIGthingsSON]

i agre

e but i think developing a solid closed guard first is good to do cause guys today seem like they dont like being close they try to attack no gi with to much space thats why alot of guys dont like half they dont like the guy being that tight to them but some guys are super strong and stocky tow here you have to get tight to make something happen

here is the problem with jiu jitsu today ben askren also made a point about this that bjj guys wana learn a new move every class they want 3 new techniques there is just so many ways to play its beautiful that there are so many games but blue and purples are you-tubing daily trying to figure this whole game out that would take 4 life times

i started boxing when i was 14 boxings an art of basically 5 punches my gym had just 2 guys and me i got private lessons luckly and the first week i was only taught 1 punch every week jab cross hook uppercut and overhand right i had to shadow box 6 rounds with just the single punches iw as learning each week

imagine how many times a boxer throws a jab in practice vs how many times a guy practices a technique in grappling now boxers train years with those few punching techniques with foot work ect too but still just knowing a technique isnt good enough once you can hit those basics on guys very well then i say explore new options people today have too many techniques that they half way learn to me blues and purples were alot better in the mid 2000s and early 2010s due to having solid fundamentals and the techniques they sued were very solid vs guys today watching a youtube vid trying a move 3 times

Thing is, a lot of BJJ is watered down at first , just to get in these customers. In high level bjj schools ,you're going over a curriculum, which treats it more like wrestling. Drills , movements within movements, ect. It's the reason competing is integral to good jiu jitsu. Even if your school is not up to par, you'll have a desire and understanding that drilling is important. I'm a brown belt and I've been going to people's homemats; drilling on my days off, since purple. Once you have your game you understand what it takes to make it better.



Also, you say " people of today" like there aren't beast ass purple belts who have solid fundamentals. The levels never change man. You can't be a champion at any belt without moving in a direction that is progressive. Meaning, the people of yesteryear were no better than the guys ,around currently.

 

[JagRoss]

Thing is, a lot of BJJ is watered down at first , just to get in these customers. In high level bjj schools ,you're going over a curriculum, which treats it more like wrestling. Drills , movements within movements, ect. It's the reason competing is integral to good jiu jitsu. Even if your school is not up to par, you'll have a desire and understanding that drilling is important. I'm a brown belt and I've been going to people's homemats; drilling on my days off, since purple. Once you have your game you understand what it takes to make it better.



Also, you say " people of today" like there aren't beast ass purple belts who have solid fundamentals. The levels never change man. You can't be a champion at any belt without moving in a direction that is progressive. Meaning, the people of yesteryear were no better than the guys ,around currently.

The level today is much higher than the level of yesteryear.
Look at the ADCCs in the early 2000s vs what we have now.

 

[Forceof1]

The fact that people still have this conversation infuriates me.

You could say that the average blue belt in 2000 was tougher than today- and I'd probably agree.

But better at BJJ / sub grappling? Please. Advances in access to information, coaching methodology, quality training partners, etc- its not even close.

Look at any sport from 20 years ago to now- which is better? Humans are more athletic, better trained, advancement in strategy, etc.

Now again- we are speaking to averages. I'm sure you could find a blue today who was worse that a blue from 20 years ago- but thats not the discussion.

 

[mataleaos]

The fact that people still have this conversation infuriates me.

You could say that the average blue belt in 2000 was tougher than today- and I'd probably agree.

But better at BJJ / sub grappling? Please. Advances in access to information, coaching methodology, quality training partners, etc- its not even close.

Look at any sport from 20 years ago to now- which is better? Humans are more athletic, better trained, advancement in strategy, etc.

Now again- we are speaking to averages. I'm sure you could find a blue today who was worse that a blue from 20 years ago- but thats not the discussion.

Exactly this. It drives me crazy too. Things advance. That's what's supposed to happen. I started in the mid 00's and followed MMA since the mid 90's and I don't think the levels are even all that close to be honest.

The one thing I would concede is what you said about toughness. I do think the sport is a little bit softer now than it used to be on the hobbyist/club scene. But the skill level is much better, and I think we should be proud and happy that it is. It's good for all of us to have the overall level improve. A rising tide lifts all boats.

 

[mataleaos]

The level today is much higher than the level of yesteryear.
Look at the ADCCs in the early 2000s vs what we have now.

Yeah and I say this with complete respect but if you look at the late 90's and early 00's ADCCs I really think that you could take a brown belt world champ of today (maybe even a purple belt world champ) and they'd probably win the tournament. Think about how many things just weren't really a thing back then. Seatbelt grips weren't really a thing. People played bottom side control and bottom half guard with no knowledge that they could be darce choked. Guillotines were considered a muscle-head move. Arm drags to the back weren't really a thing. X-guard, single leg x guard, deep half guard, and reverse Delariva all didn't really exist. The leg lock game was very elementary at that time. The leg drag/leg redirection game was far less developed. The kimura trap stuff wasn't proliferated yet.

I mean you could take a specialist in almost any of the above areas and they could go deep into the tournament if not win it just due to the knowledge gap.

At first I was going to use Craig Jones as an example but that one is Like if you put Oliver Taza or Ethan Crelinsten into a late 90's or early 00's ADCC? I think they'd win fairly easily.

 

[tekkenfan]

an theres

It was an hyperbole, but to be honest may be not the top purples, but white belts now have a millón times more info than what purples had back then, so a tip white belt from these days is going to wipe the floor with a top blue or even some come petite purple from back then...dude is like. You can be taught by roger Gracie marcelo García Rafa Mendez straight up back then you were confined on what you learn from your coach classmate and gyms around, unless you were a Traveler... it’s a nonsensical question, information it can never be considered to be a bad thing.

my point juts having info isnt enough i can tell a guy how to throw a jab he does it a few times and then lets see him actually try to use it in sparring it takes a long time drilling vs older purples who had a smaller game but drilled so much that the techniques they had were very solid i guess you forget what its like to be a white belt unless the persons a pure prodigy

 

[tekkenfan]

The level today is much higher than the level of yesteryear.
Look at the ADCCs in the early 2000s vs what we have now.

at the top belted levels of course but to say a white belt go watch a white belt tournament and try to tell me they would smash purples of 10 years ago

 

[mataleaos]

at the top belted levels of course but to say a white belt go watch a white belt tournament and try to tell me they would smash purples of 10 years ago

I mean a white belt today won't go smash a purple from 10 years ago because a white belt is still a white belt. White belts aren't very good from any era. They're begginers.

But move the conversation to intermediate guys (blue to purple) and especially advanced guys (high purple/early brown and up) things start to shift.

A club/hobbyist purple belt today would do very well against brown and black belts 10 years ago.

 

[tekkenfan]

I mean a white belt today won't go smash a purple from 10 years ago because a white belt is still a white belt. White belts aren't very good from any era. They're begginers.

But move the conversation to intermediate guys (blue to purple) and especially advanced guys (high purple/early brown and up) things start to shift.

A club/hobbyist purple belt today would do very well against brown and black belts 10 years ago.

i think at purple things start to change as a blue i think a guy who has 10 solid techniques than 50 that he has to think of on the fly of a match

also you gotta remember guys today get purple belts in2.5 years i got my purple in 3 but i trained 6 days a week sometimes 2 times a day back then it took guys 5 years minimum for a purple especially from gracie lineages relson started teaching in Hawaii in 1985 and didnt even have his first black belt till 2001 and had a school of over 200 people

i think guys who train at renzos or atos ect top gyms today there purples def beat the older purples even there top blues but purples back then had the same time as most browns or blacks 78 years is when you get your brown back then or longer

 

[mataleaos]

i think at purple things start to change as a blue i think a guy who has 10 solid techniques than 50 that he has to think of on the fly of a match

also you gotta remember guys today get purple belts in2.5 years i got my purple in 3 but i trained 6 days a week sometimes 2 times a day back then it took guys 5 years minimum for a purple especially from gracie lineages relson started teaching in Hawaii in 1985 and didnt even have his first black belt till 2001 and had a school of over 200 people

i think guys who train at renzos or atos ect top gyms today there purples def beat the older purples even there top blues but purples back then had the same time as most browns or blacks 78 years is when you get your brown back then or longer

Is there any evidence that on average it only takes 2.5 years now to get a purple belt? I have trained at a lot of places and I've been around the game for a long time and I don't see a significant change in how long it takes people to get promoted from belt to belt. On average I don't see a big difference in time periods. Obviously some get it fast and some get it slow. But I see most people having to train hard for quite a while before they get purple.

As for the rest of your post I think there are some typos or punctuation issues that make it hard for me to follow all of it.

 

[tekkenfan]

it is a very well known fact that people today get promoted alot faster

 

[mataleaos]

it is a very well known fact that people today get promoted alot faster

Well, there is a structure in place today for people to essentially quit life in order to pursue BJJ full time and make more money than there was 10 years ago. It's not much money, but the opportunities for people before black belt to earn money in the sport are higher than they were. So there are more people training 7 days a week like full time jobs than there were 10 years ago. I expect those people to get promoted faster.

But among hobbyist grapplers, regular clubs, and people doing school full time or working 40+ hour work weeks and training on the side? I don't see those people getting to purple belt in 2.5 years like you said unless they're absolutely phenoms and prodigies.

I also see kids that are training all the time and aren't old enough to be purple belts, and then they become old enough to get blue and they move from blue to purple very fast. But again they are kids that are training all the time.

I don't promote my students faster. My teacher doesn't promote students faster than he used to. And the 5 school owners I know don't promote their students faster now than they did. That's anecdotal and not a large sample size. So I could be wrong.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

it is a very well known fact that people today get promoted alot faster

That is because guys are training much more, but overall, again... information... back then all the source of info you got was your instructor, who most likely isn’t the best in the world, you get info from the best players in. The world now. And is not like you will be getting a trollon techniques and not knowing what to do with that info. As a white belt, yeah too much info is not necessary, but as you progress you can chose to work on your game much better, drilling outside class making your game stronger, it’s a no brainer, having to wait for instructor to show you some technique that you might be interest or is related to your current gsme, and it may take months till he goes over such technique vs being able to learn from th best anytime you want.

Also, why on earth would it take more than 3 years to get you a purple of you train 2 times a day 6 days a week? Also you talk in year terms... time line it’s irrelevant, what matters is mat time, how may hours you’ve been putting on the mat. Being proud of being stuck in one belt for 4 years is quite silly... “I’ve been a blue for 4 years, thus my coach is legit and I’m probably an ass kicker” ... if you have been stuck at blue belt for 4 years, what probably happened is that 1) you don’t train much and 2) you probably suck...