getting caught in striking?

[Ogata]

I have noticed from listening to Joe Rogan podcast as well as Joe Riggs and KJ Noon who are both life long boxers losing to Brawlers by KO in a form of Diego Sanchez and Charles Bennett that, no matter how good of a striker you are, you can still lose to a guy who is basically a street brawler.


I'm curios to know, what is the percentage of a striker losing to a brawler and what is the leading cause? Lack of concentration? Overlooking the grappler with no striking? Small Gloves?

Also, I know there is a big difference between mma and boxing in terms of striking being more risky, but Im wondering how relevant is getting caught in mma/kickboxing as oppose to boxing?

 

[Dontevenguess93]

I'm sure many factors make a difference, I would say small gloves is a huge one though. Sometimes they do overlook the skills like Overeem-Bigfoot. But other times it's just how the ball bounces. Hence the term box the brawler-brawl the boxer. They are kind of a kryptonite to each other.

 

[dieknowsore]

nick diaz says the same thing, that getting KO's in mma is mostly luck.

id guess it is mostly due to the gloves.

 

[CageSage]

It happens, in MMA you can't purely box because there is so many more factors. Threat of takedowns, knees, elbows, kicks etc. Also, not entirely relevant but Hoost/Sapp.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Brawl a boxer and box a brawler.

 

[JayElectra]

There are obviously differences in MMA striking and boxing, but the examples of KJ Noons and Joe Riggs as fighters that you'd shocked to see bested is a little strange. Neither were ever remotely close to amounting to anything in the sport of boxing.

 

[Ogata]

I'm sure many factors make a difference, I would say small gloves is a huge one though. Sometimes they do overlook the skills like Overeem-Bigfoot. But other times it's just how the ball bounces. Hence the term box the brawler-brawl the boxer. They are kind of a kryptonite to each other.

It must be frustrating for strikers to have to deal with losing to non-strikers standing up. One popular case would be Mirko Crop Cop vs Gonzaga! I cant help feel that it must be a confidence crusher to lose to a guy in an area you have dedicated yourself to proving your best at.

Same with KJ Noons, dude grew up boxing when he was 5 years old and he lost to Charles Bennett who basically is a street brawler.

Is striking not really the best style for outside situations due to lack of gloves and uneven surface? I keep hearing Joe Rogan say that grappling is the best for self-defence/street fighting since there is no risk of getting caught. Though Im not sure if he is being unbiased here or not...

There are obviously differences in MMA striking and boxing, but the examples of KJ Noons and Joe Riggs as fighters that you'd shocked to see bested is a little strange. Neither were ever remotely close to amounting to anything in the sport of boxing.

I used Joe Riggs and KJ Noons is because they are known for starting boxing when they were really young kids. Granted they didn't go in to professional boxing or made a full hearted attempt but they still possess boxing skills in their skillset.

 

[joeyjoejoe]

Over confidence, having an off night, not having been knocked out in years can make one a bit reckless.

 

[schwe30]

Giving up on your gameplan and brawling with a brawler.

 

[Fedorgasm]

It does seem to me that boxing, or any striking for that matter, would be more risky than grappling because of the possibility of getting caught. I think having good striking skills can give you an advantage over a brawler but there's always that chance that he catches you with a punch.

With grappling, you're basically controlling their body so they won't be able to surprise you with a quick attack.

It's probably the main reason why I'm more interested in BJJ than boxing/muy thai

 

[schwe30]

You can get caught in BJJ too. Look at Jones-Vitor.

 

[SingleSpeed]

It's definitely possible to get caught by inferior opponents in striking. But I cannot imagine that the same should not be true in grappling, too. You still can zip when you should have zapped.

On the other hand grappling seems to have become some kind of magical super power in these parts

 

[CageSage]

You can get caught in BJJ too. Look at Jones-Vitor.

Vitor also got whooped on for 3 rounds and was gassed, the common denominator is that it's MMA and not the individual sport, that's a big part of what makes it exciting in my opinion.

 

[santacruzshon]

I wrestled, train bjj, and box, and here's my opinion. If it's one on one, grappling will be more effective because you will be slightly safer. I say slightly because weird things can happen in takedowns, especially if their are objects around. In boxing, I see pretty often, the better boxer getting hit with a heavy shot that changes the fight. Now, if it's a street fight, you have to consider that there usually are no rules, which means your opponent's homies could hop in. Now, if I'm a grappler, what am I gonna do? Take multiple people down at the same time? I would prefer the boxer's chances to multiple opponents. The real advice for self defense is, train both striking and grappling.

 

[santacruzshon]

Plus, in a street fight, the risk of pulling a gray Maynard and knocking yourself out becomes a lot more likely if you're headbutting something harder than the octagon mat. Like cement. Just something to be aware of.

 

[KlLLEmAll]

This is an interesting point and it really shows the difference in striking levels between MMA and boxing/mauy thai.

Mma fighters, even the best, are simply not close. Chins are left out, hands are down and reaction timing is sub-par.

The movement, timing, defense etc of an elite boxer is on another planet compared to Mma

 

[Thaijitsu612]

I'm sure many factors make a difference, I would say small gloves is a huge one though. Sometimes they do overlook the skills like Overeem-Bigfoot. But other times it's just how the ball bounces. Hence the term box the brawler-brawl the boxer. They are kind of a kryptonite to each other.

It may not be what you meant but many people refer to reem vs Bigfoot as an example of why "hands up" doesn't work, but I've always thought that was a horrible example because reem had his hands down.

To address the topic if you do enough sparring you'll kinda just realize after time at any point someone might just catch you. Even if you out strike them for hundreds of rounds they might just happen to throw the right thing at the right time and lights out. All you csn do is your best to minimize the possibility but there's always that chance.

So a street brawlers chances against a trained technical striker are very low due to having better timing reflexes instincts and so on from training but sometimes wild shit lands.

 

[HIMBOB]

The Brawlers are usually more comfortable with going to the ground then purest strikers.

Not having to worry about the takedown allows you to open up your striking.


2nd point,
Brawlers need big power,
like Hendo Bisping, Bisping was beating Hendo, out landing him on his feet, but then Hendo being a tough headed dude with KO power knowcked him out. If Hendo had Bispings level of power he would have lost decisively. Had Bisping had Hendo's power, he would have won early.

 

[CageSage]

The Brawlers are usually more comfortable with going to the ground then purest strikers.

Not having to worry about the takedown allows you to open up your striking.


2nd point,
Brawlers need big power,
like Hendo Bisping, Bisping was beating Hendo, out landing him on his feet, but then Hendo being a tough headed dude with KO power knowcked him out. If Hendo had Bispings level of power he would have lost decisively. Had Bisping had Hendo's power, he would have won early.

What the shit are you talking about? You got the wrong fight in your head. Bisping was tagged a number of times before getting knocked the fuck out and was losing the fight.

 

[ALAN PARTRIDGE]

is 100% true