Gegard in the current ufc MW division.

Nightwish said:
He did this in less than 1 round to a guy that went 5 rounds toe to toe with Jones. Im pretty sure he would do very well.

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That's a risky comparison. Santos was maybe more suited to fight at LHW. Just like Whittaker was more suited to fight at MW after he got KOd by Wonderboy at WW.

Does it mean wonderboy would beat most MW because he beat the former champ ? No. Does it mean fighters can evolve / get better / find more efficient ways to express themselves better ? Yes
 
ferrisjso said:
He'd have a shot. Context below.

I am not one of the Gegard fanboys. Don't think he could have been champ when he left and he was better then.
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When he signed with Bellator Bisping was the champion, and he was 8-2 in his last 10. He was on a 5 fight win streak finishing Santos, Belfort, Hall, and Weidman and again..Bisping was champion. You dont think he could have beat Bisping? He put Hendo away in 70 seconds, and a 2 year older Hendo went 5 rounds and almost stopped Bisping twice. Hendo got the title shot Gegard should have had. Mousasi would have finished him faster than GSP did.
 
GordonMMARamsey said:
<{vega}>
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Gegard shit the bed against King Mo, Jacare, and loss a close fight to Lovato.

We've seen him gassed in the past as well. Jack is a good wrestler/submission artist and pushes the pace. I'm not saying it's a lock one way or the other. Just that those guys are capable. As far as Till goes, I don't know how it would go but I don't believe Till can just go in and KO Gegard at all.

What do you disagree with?
 
Unpopular opinion?
I see him beating Adesanya. He’s got the striking to keep up with Izzy and is leagues ahead in the ground game. Especially since he is so good everywhere, I feel his varied game and mma specific experience would be the deciding factor.
moose tends to have a problem with grinders, which there aren’t too much of in the top 5 MW
 
Mma's paradox is still one of the best middleweights in world.At 34 - approaching 50 wins ( while only dropping 7 over 17+ years) , he can win or lose to whomever they believe todays best and continues to show minimal mma mileage. This shows his lofty fight IQ and his adaptability to anyone in cage.

USA today has him at #6- I believe hes still a top 3 middle ( and could win or lose to Izz or Costa ).
17+ years CLEAN ( 39 finishes)

Mousasi bless-
 
The mw goat would be champ,maybe even champ champ with jones retiring
 
JKS said:
I think he likely beats everyone and challenges Izzy to a really good fight. I think he would be champ
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He got strangled by Jacare. I don't think he beats a great grappler. Izzy matches his style better, it's true.
 
He beats everyone. At LHW, too. Except for Jones.
 
bref said:
I think he'd give Isreal trouble if they fought, hes a bad match up for him stylistically. But I still think he would struggle against guys like Yoel and Gastelum.
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Noraaq said:
What a foolish comment. There’s probably no fighter that benefitted more from USADA than Mousasi.

Mousasi would beat Izzy. He’s more well rounded and just as technical on the feet. He would probably have trouble getting past the likes of Costa and Romero though
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Guy LeDouche said:
Unpopular opinion?
I see him beating Adesanya. He’s got the striking to keep up with Izzy and is leagues ahead in the ground game. Especially since he is so good everywhere, I feel his varied game and mma specific experience would be the deciding factor.
moose tends to have a problem with grinders, which there aren’t too much of in the top 5 MW
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Hazuki Ryo said:
He got strangled by Jacare. I don't think he beats a great grappler. Izzy matches his style better, it's true.
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For the people saying Gegard would struggle against others but defeat Adesanya, your thought process is not based in reality.

Most of you say he has the grappling edge. Let's just be real, that is most likely not gonna come into play and even of it did, Israel has proven to be defensively responsible in ymthe grappling department.

On the feet you guys say it's close as far as their technical abilities. Ok, let's say for a moment that it is close.

Israel is 1.)Longer reach 2.)Taller 3.)Faster

I'll also add that Israel is better defensively AND throws more different looks. He simply throws a wider array of attacks than Gegard.

If you are picking Gegard to win that fight you are picking with your heart, not your mind.
 
SouthSide971 said:
The mw goat would be champ,maybe even champ champ with jones retiring
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You're seriously calling Mousasi the MW GOAT? I mean there's plenty of deluded Moose fanboys on this thread but you might take the cake mate.
 
I think he would either be champ or 5th in the division at worst and not that weird 5th that's really 6th ranking system where the champion doesn't have a ranking.
 
Hazuki Ryo said:
He got strangled by Jacare. I don't think he beats a great grappler. Izzy matches his style better, it's true.
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Are there any great grapplers at MW other than Jacare though? I can't think of any in the UFC other than him and Weidman who's got no chin anymore and has much slower reflexes than he used to.
 
GordonMMARamsey said:
When he signed with Bellator Bisping was the champion, and he was 8-2 in his last 10. He was on a 5 fight win streak finishing Santos, Belfort, Hall, and Weidman and again..Bisping was champion. You dont think he could have beat Bisping? He put Hendo away in 70 seconds, and a 2 year older Hendo went 5 rounds and almost stopped Bisping twice. Hendo got the title shot Gegard should have had. Mousasi would have finished him faster than GSP did.
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There are cases a champ isn't the best fighter in a division or close to it just ended up there by circumstance. This is one of those times. Mousasi's not close to the only one who'd have likely beaten Bisping there were quite a few of them(part of why the Hendo and GSP defenses frustrated so many). Think Bisping was underrated would have likely beat AS if he'd gotten the shot in that time, could have beaten any MW. But most people felt Rockhold was superior and Bispings win was a fluke. Sort of a Forrest thing where he ended up champ and might not have been in the top 5.

Beating Bisping isn't the only factor. It's the other people in the division. And fluke or not Bisping got the belt by beating Rockhold someone who I think would have likely beaten Mousasi easily at the time. Then there's Romero, Whitaker, Gastelum, Jacare etc. Jaca There were several people ahead of Jacare in line. His last win was against Weidman didn't fare good against this group either was at the bottom of the group. Santos win aged well but Santos with more weight on him is a more dangerous fighter though he was overshadowed at MW and would be top 5 now.

Hendo shot is misunderstood cause traditionally if the champ has an unavenged loss that guy can be a given a title shot they otherwise don't deserve. It's how Rampage and Jeremy Horn got the shot at Chuck. Hendo didn't just beat Bisping, it was a meme. Kind of like Shad wanting to fight Machida. Hendo was old this was his last chance.

Now I get the circumstances make that look worse. Bisping was seen as being lucky to be champ and then takes a very easy fight against a guy barely in the top 10 when there's a long line of elite guys(who were mostly old who'd been waiting for a shot for years). Circumstances gave people reason to be mad. Just saying that was a historical exception to the rankings in terms of title shot. If you already beat the man whose champ he should get a shot to see if you wouldn't do it again. But yeah obviously that doesn't feel justifed cause no one saw Bisping as the "man" when he was MW champ and Hendo was being given a retirement gift on the merit he happened to have KO'd the champ years back. Just saying got more of an issue with the GSP thing.

But regardless of Hendo and GSP shots holding up the division Mousasi was not next. Whitakker had beaten Jacare in a title eliminator and Romero also beaten Jacare. Jacare had a win over Mousasi. Mousasi most recent wins were over Weidman(who most of the group had defeated at this point) and avenging his earlier loss to Uriah Hall who was never in this conversation. We're not even accounting for Rockhold who alone with Romero should have been ahead of Whitakker and Jacare in line.

So best case, Mousasi's what fifth in line for the Bisping shot. While the hold up made things worse, Mousasi was 0-1 against the fighters who were ahead of him in line. Yes he could have beaten Bisping? So what so could Gastelum and Weidman. There were a lot of people Hendo and GSP skipped in line.
Rockhold(had beaten Bisping and his loss was seen as a fluke)
Romero(8 wins in a row, beat Jacare))
Whitakker(9 wins in a row beat Jacare)
Jacare(only UFC losses to 2 guys above)
Mousasi(5 wins in a row, lost to Jacare)

How many of the guys listed above him do you think Mousasi beats? Why?

Mousasi probably has to beat 2 of those guys to get the title shot. He was on a streak but other guys were on longer streaks and Rockhold had been champ. 5 wins doesn't get a shot if a divisions stacked look at Tony with 12. He was behind a gatekeeper notorious for losing title eliminators in the rankings. Romero, Whitakker and Rockhold had beaten Jacare, Mousasi didn't. 5 fights in a row doesn't get you a title shot when Whittaker(who also didn't deserve it IMO) has 9 and beat Jacare, Romero has 8 and beat Jacare and when Rockholds only loss at that point was to a guy he'd beat the first time and was heavily favored to beat the third time.

So how does he get the shot? His wins were wins a lot of people had, all the elite guys were beating Weidman at this point, they were also beating Uriah Hall and Mousasi was avenging a loss to Uriah there. Was arguable David Branch was ahead of Mousasi and if he wasn't if he'd beaten Rockhold he'd have skipped the line. If Mousasi had fought Rockhold, Whittaker or Romero and beaten them so would he(not sure who's at fault for that him or UFC). Don't know the situation did the UFC just think he's not worth the money cause he couldn't beat top guys? Did Mousasi not want to take less pay to stay in the UFC? Regardless of why that's what happened.

Mousasi was younger than this group and if he'd resigned he could have easily ended up with Gastelum's shot if he'd won a fight or two. Gastelum needed 2 wins, Bisping and Jacare that was Mousasis path. He was younger than most of this group(not Rockhold but his stock took a hit) and was in good position for where the division was going.

Jacare wasn't getting shots cause he kept losing eliminators and in Mousasi also had a history of losing every time his competition stepped up. That ain't just the UFC that's outside it. After Dream where the quality was suspect Mousasi couldn't defend the belt against King Mo in Strikeforce(at this point beating Mo is a rite of passage outside the UFC). He became champ again in Bellator but he wasn't leagues ahead of the competition didn't just lose his belt lost to a 40 something Machida too. Only reason he can contend for the UFC belt now is cause UFC MW division is just as if not more shallow than Bellator's.

He would have beaten Bisping, there were like 10 guys who would have beaten Bisping. Hendo almost beat Bisping again. That doesn't mean you deserved a title shot when you couldn't beat those other guys. Reason I'm breaking this down in so many details is Mousasi people feel like he got screwed when the people who got screwed were the old people ahead of him and he was in position to get to the top by just waiting which he chose not to do. I really don't get the Mousasi obsession, he's not a bad fighter but no one would have gotten a shot in that situation even as an injury replacement he wasn't in the conversation.

I guess I can see your argument for Rockhold cause he got it for beating meh competition except Weidman and Machida. He beat Weidman when he was champ not his fault everyone else continued to do that after. Rockhold also beat Machida to get that shot something Mousasi still cannot do to this day even when he's about 10 years younger. He'd beaten the champ too and totally reasonable for him to want a third fight. What's your case for Whittaker and Romero with the longer streaks against guys Mousasi lost to?
 
GoshiShun17 said:
Gegard shit the bed against King Mo, Jacare, and loss a close fight to Lovato.

We've seen him gassed in the past as well. Jack is a good wrestler/submission artist and pushes the pace. I'm not saying it's a lock one way or the other. Just that those guys are capable. As far as Till goes, I don't know how it would go but I don't believe Till can just go in and KO Gegard at all.

What do you disagree with?
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Holy shit how are we using the King Mo fight still? That fight was a fucking decade ago man. 10 YEARS. The Jacare fight was 6 years ago. The Mo fight was his second fight in the US, coming from Japan where the scoring is completely different. He was conent with being on his back beating up Mo from the bottom. He out landed King mo 171 to 124. After that fight he realized you cant win fights hurting your opponent from your back and made a change.

I get it, Hermansson beat Jacare. A Jacare that is 5 years older, he was 39 then instead of 33 and lets just say he looks very "different" now than he did when he beat Mousasi...but other than that - who has he beat that leads you to believe he has anything for anyone at the top of the division? He got worked by Cannonier. he might have "good wrestling and submissions" but clearly you're not paying attention to what Mousasi is capable on the ground if you're using a fight from 10 years ago to support your arguments. Mousasi has been subbed once in 14 years, juiced to the gills Lovato - who may be the best grappler in the world at 185 couldn't sub him. Weidman couldn't hold him down, he wrecked both Rory, and Carvalho on the ground. Hermansson is a gate keeper who will have entertaining fights with guys sneaking into the top 10. He's not beating guys like Mousasi.


As for Till, no clue how he beats Mousasi. He gets hit a lot in fights. Mousasi is too fast, and too accurate. Till has zero threat of a takedown. He's not going to try to wrestler or grapple. Mousasi will be able to move plod forward tagging Till at will with his jab and setting up the combos we've seen him tee off on people with once his opponent starts covering.


I just dont get the knock on Mousasi. In 10 years, he's had 4 close fights. 5 if you want to count the first Hall fight. It's hard to call it "close" or competitve because the first round Hall got absolutely mauled and then landed that kick at the start of the 2nd. That was the only point in the entire fight Hall didn't look terrible.

The Machida fight, he came back from his 2nd knee surgery in 2 years after a 10 month lay off and lost a close decision. Machida won, but go back and watch it and see how close those rounds actually were.
The Jacare fight, hats off to Jacare. He looked great.
Hall - see above.
The Shlemenko fight - he got his eye closed with a wild hook early in the 1st, had one eye for all 3 rounds and still won. Give him two eyes and that fight isn't competitive.
The Lovato fight - the best grappler at 185 in the world, juiced to the gills managed to hold him down and win it 48-47, 47-47, 48-47 majority decision.

Guys like Hermansson and Till aren't beating him.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
Are there any great grapplers at MW other than Jacare though? I can't think of any in the UFC other than him and Weidman who's got no chin anymore and has much slower reflexes than he used to.
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Not to mention Jacare hurt him on the feet first. He didn't just take him down and work him.

Now I don't know if that helps or hurts Gegard's case as a top guy.
 
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