Television Game of Thrones S08E06 Discussion Thread: Burn them all! (the writing staff) | Our Watch has ended

[SmilinDesperado]

I noticed that there is a strange rage toward anyone who admits liking the season or anything post season 5. People are super emotionally attached.

lol I mean...there are only 8 seasons to the show...and the 2 final seasons were shortened in half.
So for 5 seasons we got 1 show, and then got another one in the final stretch, and you think it's strange that people are unhappy about this?

The problem isn't really that you like stuff past Season 5, it's that you guys act like there was no change in tone, pace or quality in these later seasons..as if people are suddenly "hating" on the show for no reason. These changes in the tone, pace, and storytelling are the CENTER of where the "rage" is coming from.
You liked the season with Arya getting her revenge...Okay...fair enough. But, the show back in Season 1-4 would not have done that scene like that--at least not without some sort of explanation as to how it's possible. The show in season 7 and 8 is asking the audience to accept things that they told us from Season 1 weren't possible.

The complexity and attention to detail was a major drawing point of this show.
Characters would spent entire season traveling down a road. Most of the episodes didn't even have any fight scenes---and even when they did, with the exception of the huge battle scenes they'd usually do in Episode 9 of every season, GoT really didn't have too much impressive fight scenes.
While I understand and can myself appreciate the love of the battle scenes and the dragons wrecking shit, that stuff was never the center of the show. Replacing storytelling for CGI and "it's magic" is not what this show was built on.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

So we get a 12 year old ninja girl becoming a much taller, bigger, older man, flawlessly, and you think it’s satisfying?

You and the like are what’s wrong about this show. This retarded piece of TV was made for idiots like you.

No need to get angry about it.

That scene was half about showing the audience Arya had learned some special magic.

Most folks were able to accept the magic Arya used there as relatively constent with the way magic had been displayed thus far in the show.

“Smoke babies, Wargs, Dragons and now some shapeshifting.”

What were you thinking when you watched that scene? “This is stupid because she’s short!” - ?

 

[revoltub]

lol I mean...there are only 8 seasons to the show...and the 2 final seasons were shortened in half.
So for 5 seasons we got 1 show, and then got another one in the final stretch, and you think it's strange that people are unhappy about this?

The problem isn't really that you like stuff past Season 5, it's that you guys act like there was no change in tone, pace or quality in these later seasons..as if people are suddenly "hating" on the show for no reason. These changes in the tone, pace, and storytelling are the CENTER of where the "rage" is coming from.
You liked the season with Arya getting her revenge...Okay...fair enough. But, the show back in Season 1-4 would not have done that scene like that--at least not without some sort of explanation as to how it's possible. The show in season 7 and 8 is asking the audience to accept things that they told us from Season 1 weren't possible.

The complexity and attention to detail was a major drawing point of this show.
Characters would spent entire season traveling down a road. Most of the episodes didn't even have any fight scenes---and even when they did, with the exception of the huge battle scenes they'd usually do in Episode 9 of every season, GoT really didn't have too much impressive fight scenes.
While I understand and can myself appreciate the love of the battle scenes and the dragons wrecking shit, that stuff was never the center of the show. Replacing storytelling for CGI and "it's magic" is not what this show was built on.

I don't think anyone is denying some of your points. Some of us just dont think it ruins the show or that the ending is that bad.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

It's not a silly defense.

It's what they do, it's magic, and how it's done is completely irrelevant. Arya's time spent there wasn't for the purpose of explaining how the magic works, it was meant to show her putting in the work so she could perform later. Yes, that part of the show could have been better but that doesn't make everything that followed fruit of the poisonous tree.

This world was NEVER "somewhat realistic". It features a magical ice wall built by giants that repels zombies.

This show had a metric ton of material to express and they didn't give themselves enough time. It should have been better.

But holy shit, did they give us a lot of epic stuff.

It is silly. For THIS show, it is silly. And it isn't irrelevant for this show.
If this was Lord of the Rings where a guy like Gandalf can just do whatever magic he wants, that's fine. That's the world they built. They set up Gandalf as a wizard, and his magic doesn't have any limits. I can accept that in that in that story.
That isn't the same world of Game of Thrones. People have not just done things because "magic", at least not without some sort of explanation or conversation. You don't just accept that your 15 year old sister kills The Night King because..."magic".

Why exactly did her time in Braavos have to be solely about her "putting in the work so she could perform later"? Again, she was there for 2 SEASONS. To not explain anything about her powers makes no sense. Just like it made no sense to spend all that time on the Night King and the 3 Eyed Raven to then give no explanation of it. This is about shit writing.

You are making this an either black or white thing. And this line of thinking makes it all the more egregious when discussing this show, because nothing has ever been black and white in GoT. One of the most enjoyable things about this show was the layers that characters had. People weren't just "good guys and bad guys".
i said the show is in a SOMEWHAT realistic world. It isn't a complete fantasy. There are real rules and consequences. People do stupid things , and they end up dead for it...just like in real life. "The hero" of the show isn't safe. He can die if he does something stupid. There isn't a big, evil boss that must live till the end. There are real consequences to actions.
The magic wall, White walkers, giants, and dragons, these were all myths to most people. Nobody believed in this stuff. They're all finding out as the show goes on that these things actually exist.

You're agreeing with what I'm saying while downplaying it. That they didn't flesh out this stuff is the central problem. "it should have been better...they didn't give themselves enough time.." YeS! And that is why so many of these storylines fell so flat, and felt so wrong for people. Almost any of these storylines could have worked fine, had they been explained, and/or given time to breathe.
In THIS show, rushing storylines is the exact opposite of what has happened for the vast majority of the show's run. The rush to the end in a story like this changes the essence of the story.
The show stopped being about characters, and switched to just being about completing a story.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

No need to get angry about it.

That scene was half about showing the audience Arya had learned some special magic.

Most folks were able to accept the magic Arya used there as relatively constent with the way magic had been displayed thus far in the show.

“Smoke babies, Wargs, Dragons and now some shapeshifting.”

What were you thinking when you watched that scene? “This is stupid because she’s short!” - ?

I can accept most of the stuff surrounding the Lord of Light. He's supposed to be a god of fire. So that his priestess can do things with fire, or do a prayer to do some magical shit is acceptable. It's been set up in a way in the story.
The Warging was something i was accepting because i thought they were actually going to end up explaining it with the Three Eyed Raven. Even still, that people have special abilities isn't the issue.
If you just want to say that shapeshifting and stone men and dragons exist in this world, that's fine.
But then why did we spend 2 Seasons with Arya in Braavos, where her specific purpose of going there was to learn to be a faceless man, and then....never show us how she actually does it.

Arya isn't a random mystical character that alawys had magic. We have been following her since she was a little girl. So how did this girl get this power?
If she took the Mountain's face, she would grow to his size? Does she get his strength as well? And voice?
I'd find it a lot easier to just accept had she morphed into someone like the Waif, since they were of similar size. But her changing into much larger people from just skinning someone..yea..i wanted more info consdiering the amount of time the show spent on her in Braavos , and how important that ability ended up being for the story.

 

[lostdog000]

did u watch the behind the scenes tonight?
pretty sad stuff seeing kit cry when he first found out he kills dany

 

[FyrFytr998]

It is silly. For THIS show, it is silly. And it isn't irrelevant for this show.
If this was Lord of the Rings where a guy like Gandalf can just do whatever magic he wants, that's fine. That's the world they built. They set up Gandalf as a wizard, and his magic doesn't have any limits. I can accept that in that in that story.
That isn't the same world of Game of Thrones. People have not just done things because "magic", at least not without some sort of explanation or conversation. You don't just accept that your 15 year old sister kills The Night King because..."magic".

Why exactly did her time in Braavos have to be solely about her "putting in the work so she could perform later"? Again, she was there for 2 SEASONS. To not explain anything about her powers makes no sense. Just like it made no sense to spend all that time on the Night King and the 3 Eyed Raven to then give no explanation of it. This is about shit writing.

You are making this an either black or white thing. And this line of thinking makes it all the more egregious when discussing this show, because nothing has ever been black and white in GoT. One of the most enjoyable things about this show was the layers that characters had. People weren't just "good guys and bad guys".
i said the show is in a SOMEWHAT realistic world. It isn't a complete fantasy. There are real rules and consequences. People do stupid things , and they end up dead for it...just like in real life. "The hero" of the show isn't safe. He can die if he does something stupid. There isn't a big, evil boss that must live till the end. There are real consequences to actions.
The magic wall, White walkers, giants, and dragons, these were all myths to most people. Nobody believed in this stuff. They're all finding out as the show goes on that these things actually exist.

You're agreeing with what I'm saying while downplaying it. That they didn't flesh out this stuff is the central problem. "it should have been better...they didn't give themselves enough time.." YeS! And that is why so many of these storylines fell so flat, and felt so wrong for people. Almost any of these storylines could have worked fine, had they been explained, and/or given time to breathe.
In THIS show, rushing storylines is the exact opposite of what has happened for the vast majority of the show's run. The rush to the end in a story like this changes the essence of the story.
The show stopped being about characters, and switched to just being about completing a story.

Or maybe they will go into detail about it in one of the coming prequels? Who knows? The fact remains, there’s a segment of the viewers that don’t need to have every little detail explained to them. I myself have zero issue assuming that it’s more than just slapping some skin mask on your face. The official wiki even says so.....

“They are trained to use all their senses to root out deception and create their disguises, seemingly possessing magical abilities that allow them to change their appearance at will. “

So there you go.

 

[Law Talkin’ Guy]

did u watch the behind the scenes tonight?
pretty sad stuff seeing kit cry when he first found out he kills dany

Is that the documentary thing tonight? Is it any good?

 

[TheLastEmperorReurns]

Jamie Lannister has been a stupid and shitty character since episode 1 and anyone that likes him is a dumb fuck

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Or maybe they will go into detail about it in one of the coming prequels? Who knows? The fact remains, there’s a segment of the viewers that don’t need to have every little detail explained to them. I myself have zero issue assuming that it’s more than just slapping some skin mask on your face. The official wiki even says so.....

“They are trained to use all their senses to root out deception and create their disguises, seemingly possessing magical abilities that allow them to change their appearance at will. “

So there you go.

lol What is all this "maybe..." stuff?
I am truly baffled at how you guys defend this show.
Guess what I thought at the end of Season 7? "This season was super rushed...stuff didnt' make sense..but..Maybe they'll explain everything in Season 8. I mean, it's the final season. They're going to take 2 years to film it, and GRMM gave them the ending..they have to explain these loose ends"
Yeah...that did not happen.

I should not have to go read a Wikipedia page, wait for a prequel 4 years from now, or MAKE UP my own story to explain the show that I just watched. That's ridiculous.

"There's a segment of viewers that don't need every little detail explained..."
This is just a bad argument that you guys use to make it look like I'm nitpicking. I'm not making some argument about the shape of a helmet or sword...or how strong dragon fire is. Arya saved all of humanity with her supposed training in Braavos.
Arya went to Braavos for 2 SEASONS for the specific purpose of learning to be a faceless man..and then we never saw her train.
This is like a martial arts movie where a guy goes to WuDang mountain to learn Kung fu, and then all they ever show him doing is sweeping the floor and making beds.
And then when he leaves the mountain, he one touch kills every big bad dude he meets.
That makes no sense.

 

[TheNinja]

You gotta admit. Her getting revenge on Frey for the red wedding was pretty damn satisfying. If thats it, ill take it.

VERY Satisfying

 

[Bob Gray]

lol What is all this "maybe..." stuff?
I am truly baffled at how you guys defend this show.
Guess what I thought at the end of Season 7? "This season was super rushed...stuff didnt' make sense..but..Maybe they'll explain everything in Season 8. I mean, it's the final season. They're going to take 2 years to film it, and GRMM gave them the ending..they have to explain these loose ends"
Yeah...that did not happen.

I should not have to go read a Wikipedia page, wait for a prequel 4 years from now, or MAKE UP my own story to explain the show that I just watched. That's ridiculous.

"There's a segment of viewers that don't need every little detail explained..."
This is just a bad argument that you guys use to make it look like I'm nitpicking. I'm not making some argument about the shape of a helmet or sword...or how strong dragon fire is. Arya saved all of humanity with her supposed training in Braavos.
Arya went to Braavos for 2 SEASONS for the specific purpose of learning to be a faceless man..and then we never saw her train.
This is like a martial arts movie where a guy goes to WuDang mountain to learn Kung fu, and then all they ever show him doing is sweeping the floor and making beds.
And then when he leaves the mountain, he one touch kills every big bad dude he meets.
That makes no sense.

Did you want a scientific explanation for how the magic worked?

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Did you want a scientific explanation for how the magic worked?

Why ya'll being intentionally obtuse?

Of course I'm not looking for a "scientific explanation for how magic works".
But, we don't even know if it's magic, or what it is. We're just assuming that much.
If we spend 2 seasons in Braavos with the specific purpose of TRAINING how to be a Faceless man....there should be some footage of some actual training. I don't see how that's a crazy thing to expect.
Literally could of spent 5 minutes of Jaquen or the Waif making some shit up.

What can really anyone tell me about what happened with Arya in Braavos? She swept floors. Washed dead bodies. Sold clams. Didn't want to poison someone. Got blinded. Got stabbed. And thenn somehow at the end of that, she knows all the tricks of the assassin order that said she wasn't ready to learn the tricks of that assassin order...?

This isn't some little unimportant thing. Arya killed the Night King using these skills she supposedly learned. Why would you not show ANYTHING about how they work?
Arya isn't a magician. She isn't some magical being. She's been a normal little girl throughout the show. And now....Night King killer...because....magic

 

[KnightTemplar]

The guy who is credited for ruining Star Wars and the guys that ruined Game of Thrones joining forces. What could possibly go wrong?

If there was ever a time to reboot the Star Trek franchise...

 

[KnightTemplar]

VERY Satisfying

One of my favourite scenes in the show

 

[Monkadelic]

I think a lot of people are angry at the show and maybe frustrated with people who enjoyed it.

I'm going through a weird series of denial stages that are completely out of order.

I was pretty disappointed with this season but accepted it pretty quickly and let myself enjoy certain moments.

I'm slowly letting the anger creep in knowing the ending wasn't worthy of the story, even though we all knew years ago this was going to happen.

This was pretty much my process. I didn't think they'd be able to bring about a satisfactory conclusion this season, but wanted to believe.

Very early on I realised that it clearly wasn't going to happen, but was determined to enjoy the TV spectacle, and largely did so.

Since the finale I've been stewing on it and getting more and more irritated with the whole thing.

 

[Cole train]

i have to say rewatchability is pretty low in my opinion since a lot of things they did in earlier seasons have no meaning (especially everything related to the walkers)

 

[Loiosh]

It is silly. For THIS show, it is silly. And it isn't irrelevant for this show.
If this was Lord of the Rings where a guy like Gandalf can just do whatever magic he wants, that's fine. That's the world they built. They set up Gandalf as a wizard, and his magic doesn't have any limits. I can accept that in that in that story.
That isn't the same world of Game of Thrones. People have not just done things because "magic", at least not without some sort of explanation or conversation. You don't just accept that your 15 year old sister kills The Night King because..."magic".

Why exactly did her time in Braavos have to be solely about her "putting in the work so she could perform later"? Again, she was there for 2 SEASONS. To not explain anything about her powers makes no sense. Just like it made no sense to spend all that time on the Night King and the 3 Eyed Raven to then give no explanation of it. This is about shit writing.

You are making this an either black or white thing. And this line of thinking makes it all the more egregious when discussing this show, because nothing has ever been black and white in GoT. One of the most enjoyable things about this show was the layers that characters had. People weren't just "good guys and bad guys".
i said the show is in a SOMEWHAT realistic world. It isn't a complete fantasy. There are real rules and consequences. People do stupid things , and they end up dead for it...just like in real life. "The hero" of the show isn't safe. He can die if he does something stupid. There isn't a big, evil boss that must live till the end. There are real consequences to actions.
The magic wall, White walkers, giants, and dragons, these were all myths to most people. Nobody believed in this stuff. They're all finding out as the show goes on that these things actually exist.

You're agreeing with what I'm saying while downplaying it. That they didn't flesh out this stuff is the central problem. "it should have been better...they didn't give themselves enough time.." YeS! And that is why so many of these storylines fell so flat, and felt so wrong for people. Almost any of these storylines could have worked fine, had they been explained, and/or given time to breathe.
In THIS show, rushing storylines is the exact opposite of what has happened for the vast majority of the show's run. The rush to the end in a story like this changes the essence of the story.
The show stopped being about characters, and switched to just being about completing a story.

Someone needs to talk you off the ledge, your anger with this show is toxic.

"You're agreeing with what I'm saying while downplaying it."

That's exactly right. There were plenty of things throughout the series that could have been better, and it got worse and worse closer to the end. I am very forgiving when a show has to blend so many plot-lines. I tend to focus on what I liked rather than stew on what I didn't.

Arya being able to convincingly play an adult was magic, and that's fine. There was a fan theory for years that Jaqen H'ghar had actually killed Arya and taken her place. Fans who aren't LOOKING to take a steaming dump on this show don't have a problem with magical characters doing magical things in a story that is CLEARLY magical.

 

[BAM]

i have to say rewatchability is pretty low in my opinion since a lot of things they did in earlier seasons have no meaning (especially everything related to the walkers)

with the white walkers aka the others, GRRM hasn't put much of them in his books thus far. The show always was far more focused on them and added the Night King. So a lot of that might be glorified fan fiction that the producers didn't know what to do with.

With the Winds of Winter apparently expected to be out before June 2020 (according to a new entry in GRRMs blog) and the prequel coming out, I think a lot of the white walker business will be explained. I also think the GRRM Others will be different than the show White Walkers. At least I hope.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Someone needs to talk you off the ledge, your anger with this show is toxic.

"You're agreeing with what I'm saying while downplaying it."

That's exactly right. There were plenty of things throughout the series that could have been better, and it got worse and worse closer to the end. I am very forgiving when a show has to blend so many plot-lines. I tend to focus on what I liked rather than stew on what I didn't.

Arya being able to convincingly play an adult was magic, and that's fine. There was a fan theory for years that Jaqen H'ghar had actually killed Arya and taken her place. Fans who aren't LOOKING to take a steaming dump on this show don't have a problem with magical characters doing magical things in a story that is CLEARLY magical.

Lol what? I'm not angry, man. I'm not cursing at you, or calling you names.
I'm just trying to have a discussion about the show. I enjoy this forum because I can talk about stuff like this at length. Im not sitting here furiously typing hate messages here.

And as I've said, I understand why people like the show as it is. And that's fine. My only thing is the people acting like "the haters" are just "whining" for no reason.
If a big part of my love of the show centered around this show's attention to character development, the slow burn the show used to have, the witty conversations and interactions between characters...if that stuff goes away in favor of the CGI and subverting expectations, it shouldn't be hard to see why that would be a big deal to a fan.
That was the major draw of the show for me.

And again, you're just trying to simplify the show to make your point, while ignoring the realistic elements of the show.
There is magic in the show. But it has not been used in the oversimplified way you're implying until the last few seasons.

To be clear, I dont enjoy criticizing this show. It's a show I loved. It was my favorite...still is probably, despite the abysmal ending. I am not saying that Season 8 is 100% complete garbage.
Even in scenes that didnt make sense, the acting was top notch. The music, set, and CGI are top notch. Watching Drogon wreck King's Landing was visually awesome.
But those things are not why I ever watched this show.
And they mean little to me without the strong story to back them up. The characters come before everything else for me. The dragons and fan fiction are nice toppings,, but dont mean anything beyond them looking cool.