Galatians 4 May Be The Most Important Chapter Explaining The Christian/Islam Dilemma

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This chapter explains the law vs grace, Isaac vs Ishmael dilemma that underlies the conflict behind Muslims/Jews and Christians for thousands of years:

Galatians 4

"What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. 2 The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3 So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces[a] of the world. 4 But when the set time had fully come,God sent his Son, born of a woman,born under the law, 5 to redeemthose under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.[b]6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out,“Abba,[c] Father.” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.

Paul’s Concern for the Galatians
8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces[d]? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

12 I plead with you, brothers and sisters, become like me, for I became like you. You did me no wrong. 13 As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you, 14 and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. 15 Where, then, is your blessing of me now? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me. 16 Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

17 Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may have zeal for them.18 It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good, and to be so always, not just when I am with you.19 My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, 20 how I wish I could be with you now and change my tone, because I am perplexed about you!

Hagar and Sarah
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”[e]

28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise.29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”[f] 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman."

Of import within this passage:


“Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”[f] 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman."


It is why Islam will NEVER have a place in civilization. It will ALWAYS be anti-freedom.

Interestingly, Islam promotes Ishmael as Isaac's loved son put on an altar, while Judaism/Christianity records Isaac as being the one who was put in that place. The lamb that was put in place of Isaac at the last second was a type of Jesus, the antitype or fulfillment of the sacrifice on the altar.

Regardless of what religious or nonreligious persuasion you come from, this is the reliable history of the world's longest and greatest conflict.

Sarah, Abraham's wife was unable to have children so she gave her hand-maid to Abraham to bear children for her (even though she was promised by God that she would be a mother of a nation with offspring more numerous than the stars). As a result of this lack of faith, an offspring was born through Hagar. Later, the offspring of promise was born through natural means to Sarah. THIS promised lineage has lived in conflict with the offspring of Hagar (or offspring born through doubt).

Ultimately, the offspring of doubt, of legalistic merit, will be cast out.
 
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Judaism is legalistic. Do you think Judaism doesn't have a place in civilization either?
 
That's a common misconception.

Not even close. "Conservative" and "Reform" Judaism are modern developments within Judaism. The latter's members are barely even religious. Orthodox Judaism (whose adherents are fetishized by fundamentalist Christians) is very legalistic.
 
Judaism is legalistic. Do you think Judaism doesn't have a place in civilization either?

Civilization has 100% to do with living by the spirit. It has 0% to do with the legalist code of Judaism.
 
That's a common misconception.

Though to be fair, most Jews are non-practicing, while most Muslims are definitely practicing.

The Koran is closer to the Torah/Old Testament, but most Jews don't really follow rules such as stoning your children for misbehaving.

Islam is a political and legalistic system that plays a religion by day, and didn't change from the 7th century until the 20th century, when it actually got worse with the formation of the modern radical Islamic groups.
 
So is your answer to my question yes or no?

There are 14 million Jews worldwide. There are 1.6 billion Muslims. It is sort of an irrelevant question. Less relevant than, "Does Sikhism have a place in civilization?" by numbers.

My answer would be "no", and especially in a ruling majority.
 
This chapter explains the law vs grace, Isaac vs Ishmael dilemma that underlies the conflict behind Muslims/Jews and Christians for thousands of years:

Galatians 4

"What I am saying is that as long as an heir is underage, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. 2 The heir is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. 3 So also, when we were underage, we were in slavery under the elemental spiritual forces[a] of the world. 4 But when the set time had fully come,God sent his Son, born of a woman,born under the law, 5 to redeemthose under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.[b]6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out,“Abba,[c] Father.” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.

Paul’s Concern for the Galatians
8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces[d]? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

12 I plead with you, brothers and sisters, become like me, for I became like you. You did me no wrong. 13 As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you, 14 and even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. 15 Where, then, is your blessing of me now? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me. 16 Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

17 Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may have zeal for them.18 It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good, and to be so always, not just when I am with you.19 My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you, 20 how I wish I could be with you now and change my tone, because I am perplexed about you!

Hagar and Sarah
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”[e]

28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise.29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”[f] 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman."

Of import within this passage:


“Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”[f] 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman."


It is why Islam will NEVER have a place in civilization. It will ALWAYS be anti-freedom.

Interestingly, Islam promotes Ishmael as Isaac's loved son put on an altar, while Judaism/Christianity records Isaac as being the one who was put in that place. The lamb that was put in place of Isaac at the last second was a type of Jesus, the antitype or fulfillment of the sacrifice on the altar.

Regardless of what religious or nonreligious persuasion you come from, this is the reliable history of the world's longest and greatest conflict.

Sarah, Abraham's wife was unable to have children so she gave her hand-maid to Abraham to bear children for her (even though she was promised by God that she would be a mother of a nation with offspring more numerous than the stars). As a result of this lack of faith, an offspring was born through Hagar. Later, the offspring of promise was born through natural means to Sarah. THIS promised lineage has lived in conflict with the offspring of Hagar (or offspring born through doubt).

Ultimately, the offspring of doubt, of legalistic merit, will be cast out.

I agree with your post and the bible even says Ishmael will be a wild ass among men- his hand against every brother.

But what I take away from this passage as well is that salvation is by grace not by any works. Abraham tried to fulfill God's promise via carnal means by having a child with the maid servant. He thought God needed his help, thought he could fulfill Gods promise through his works and he bore a child with Hagar.

But God doesn't even acknowledge this. For when Abraham was to sacrifice Isaac - God said take your ONLY son... God doesn't recognize our fleshly works- which is also a great thing for how often do we try to do "works" before God. Or all the other fleshly , Carnal things we do in our life. Even What we perceive as good deeds God sees them as filthy rags as it was said in Isaiah... That's how tainted and sinful man is- that even our "good deeds" have some type of carnal sinful nature behind it.

But our salvation is grace is from God. And for those who receive Christ as their atonement for sin- God will not remember our sins he will blot them out- just as he remember Ishmael as abraham's son. He doesn't even recognize it or acknowledge it. Salvation by grace not through any carnal fleshly works by man. For any works we may try and do before God- fleshly carnal works - God doesn't even acknowledge cause it's tainted with sin.

Least that's my point of view on that passage. Always good to see scripture posted on sherdog.
 
I agree with your post and the bible even says Ishmael will be a wild ass among men- his hand against every brother.

But what I take away from this passage as well is that salvation is by grace not by any works. Abraham tried to fulfill God's promise via carnal means by having a child with the maid servant. He thought God needed his help, thought he could fulfill Gods promise through his works and he bore a child with Hagar.

But God doesn't even acknowledge this. For when Abraham was to sacrifice Isaac - God said take your ONLY son... God doesn't recognize our fleshly works- which is also a great thing for how often do we try to do "works" before God. Or all the other fleshly , Carnal things we do in our life. Even What we perceive as good deeds God sees them as filthy rags as it was said in Isaiah... That's how tainted and sinful man is- that even our "good deeds" have some type of carnal sinful nature behind it.

But our salvation is grace is from God. And for those who receive Christ as their atonement for sin- God will not remember our sins he will blot them out- just as he remember Ishmael as abraham's son. He doesn't even recognize it or acknowledge it. Salvation by grace not through any carnal fleshly works by man. For any works we may try and do before God- fleshly carnal works - God doesn't even acknowledge cause it's tainted with sin.

Least that's my point of view on that passage. Always good to see scripture posted on sherdog.

Wonderful, wonderful post Colby. I 100% agree . . . also, I've never heard that "only son" part. I'm so thankful that you brought that out. Amazing! It absolutely accentuates the point!
 
Also I always felt that Paul prophecied about Islam in Galatians 1:8- whether knowing it or not cause it says:

But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any "good news" other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed.

If only Muhammad had read that passage before he supposedly had an encounter with Gabriel- which if he indeed did have an angelic encounter it was most certainly Satan in disguise.
 
Also I always felt that Paul prophecied about Islam in Galatians 1:8- whether knowing it or not cause it says:

But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any "good news" other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed.

If only Muhammad had read that passage before he supposedly had an encounter with Gabriel- which if he indeed did have an angelic encounter it was most certainly Satan in disguise.

Lucifer - Morning Star.
 
I really think that the Old Testament is pretty much mythology and the letters from St. Paul are just that - letters written by a cool guy who had a tent making business and from time to time had some useful ideas. What really matters is the content of the statements of Jesus himself. And he would want us to forgive and forget, be less greedy and more generous, and not be prejudiced based on race or religion. He was the Son of God - the rest of those dudes were messengers or writers but were mortal.
 
I really think that the Old Testament is pretty much mythology and the letters from St. Paul are just that - letters written by a cool guy who had a tent making business and from time to time had some useful ideas. What really matters is the content of the statements of Jesus himself. And he would want us to forgive and forget, be less greedy and more generous, and not be prejudiced based on race or religion. He was the Son of God - the rest of those dudes were messengers or writers but were mortal.

Boy you really missed the point. Whoooosh!

The book of Revelations is about Islam, the final battle of armageddon..who else would we be fighting that desperately in THAT region?

Who beheads Christians and persecutes them for all of history but moslems?
 
I really think that the Old Testament is pretty much mythology and the letters from St. Paul are just that - letters written by a cool guy who had a tent making business and from time to time had some useful ideas. What really matters is the content of the statements of Jesus himself. And he would want us to forgive and forget, be less greedy and more generous, and not be prejudiced based on race or religion. He was the Son of God - the rest of those dudes were messengers or writers but were mortal.

Do you believe in Jesus Christ and not believe the Old Testament and the rest of the epistles?

The more you study the Old Testament you see that it is almost completely related or tied to Jesus Christ. If Paul just wrote some "cool stories" making them up as he goes- he's a liar and deceiver.

Same would go for Jesud Christ. If people think He existed but wasn't the Son of God, if He wasn't God then you cannot regard Him as a good person with good morals because if He wasn't who He says He is/was then He's a deceiver. Jesus said if you're not with me then you're against me.

God will not allow you to stay neutral- you must decide. And I full hearted believe if you seek out the answer you will find the answer and you will see that the bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit and that Jesus Christ is God.

Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you.

I didn't even know that passage existed in the bible until this year but it's true. It wasn't until this past year when I just casually went about wanting to hear/read the bible and I just use to casually listen to it to and from to work not really expecting anything to change in my life but i must say its been life changing.

I recommend that you seek out to read the bible this year- be not only hearers of the word but doers. Read it and apply it to your life and I fully believe you will see Jesus is God and that the bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit working through men such as Paul and the other disciples/prophets.
 
Do you believe in Jesus Christ and not believe the Old Testament and the rest of the epistles?

The more you study the Old Testament you see that it is almost completely related or tied to Jesus Christ. If Paul just wrote some "cool stories" making them up as he goes- he's a liar and deceiver.

Same would go for Jesud Christ. If people think He existed but wasn't the Son of God, if He wasn't God then you cannot regard Him as a good person with good morals because if He wasn't who He says He is/was then He's a deceiver. Jesus said if you're not with me then you're against me.

God will not allow you to stay neutral- you must decide. And I full hearted believe if you seek out the answer you will find the answer and you will see that the bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit and that Jesus Christ is God.

Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you.

I didn't even know that passage existed in the bible until this year but it's true. It wasn't until this past year when I just casually went about wanting to hear/read the bible and I just use to casually listen to it to and from to work not really expecting anything to change in my life but i must say its been life changing.

I recommend that you seek out to read the bible this year- be not only hearers of the word but doers. Read it and apply it to your life and I fully believe you will see Jesus is God and that the bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit working through men such as Paul and the other disciples/prophets.


I "believe in" the Old Testament and the Epistles in the sense that I believe these things (or similar things) were at one time written. I do not believe that they are "the word of God" nor do I believe that they were regarded as the word of God (except for the Torah) at the time they were written. There are many inspiring passages in the Bible but that does not mean that the author of the entire Bible is God.
And I believe that the version we have today is very unlikely to be the original version.
I believe that God transcends our experience so that we do not really understand God any more than my chair understands me. So we do not really understand what the phrase "the Son of God" means. It is not at all clear that the early Christians believed in the divinity of Christ and it is not at all clear exactly who he was claiming to be. If I followed the Bible literally, I would sell my daughter into slavery and do all sorts of other nutty things like the Salafists who try to follow the Koran literally. There are parts of the Bible which are "inspired" by God but that is also true of the speeches of Martin Luther King and Ghandi.
St. Paul (Saul of Tarsis) was a good man and had many valuable insights and he wrote with conviction and style but he was not God and his writings are not the writings of God. They are letters sent by a man which were included in the New Testament because of decisions made by other men who were running the Catholic Church many centuries after the letters were written.
 
Boy you really missed the point. Whoooosh!

The book of Revelations is about Islam, the final battle of armageddon..who else would we be fighting that desperately in THAT region?

Who beheads Christians and persecutes them for all of history but moslems?

The Book of Revelations was written 50 or 60 years after the Resurrection of Christ (Anno Domini 80-90). It is very unclear who wrote it. It was not accepted into the Canon until around the year 400. Some Christian sects do not consider it part of the Canon and Martin Luther and John Calvin seem to have had reservations about it.
It is subject to many, many different interpretations. It most likely referred to the immediate problems of the early Church under the Roman Empire and the persecution it was experiencing. But that is not completely clear. It is the part of the Bible which is most similar to the Koran.
The effort to read it as predicting our current situation in the Middle East is a stretch and an effort to use it (rather than the teachings of Jesus Christ) as a guide in how to approach those problems is very misguided and likely to lead us in some very bad directions. Its popularity is largely due to the multiple interpretations that can be attached to it. I do not believe in predestination so I do not believe that there is any "inevitable" result that is about to occur in the Middle East.
 
I "believe in" the Old Testament and the Epistles in the sense that I believe these things (or similar things) were at one time written. I do not believe that they are "the word of God" nor do I believe that they were regarded as the word of God (except for the Torah) at the time they were written. There are many inspiring passages in the Bible but that does not mean that the author of the entire Bible is God.
And I believe that the version we have today is very unlikely to be the original version.
I believe that God transcends our experience so that we do not really understand God any more than my chair understands me. So we do not really understand what the phrase "the Son of God" means. It is not at all clear that the early Christians believed in the divinity of Christ and it is not at all clear exactly who he was claiming to be. If I followed the Bible literally, I would sell my daughter into slavery and do all sorts of other nutty things like the Salafists who try to follow the Koran literally. There are parts of the Bible which are "inspired" by God but that is also true of the speeches of Martin Luther King and Ghandi.
St. Paul (Saul of Tarsis) was a good man and had many valuable insights and he wrote with conviction and style but he was not God and his writings are not the writings of God. They are letters sent by a man which were included in the New Testament because of decisions made by other men who were running the Catholic Church many centuries after the letters were written.

I think the Dead Sea scrolls authenticate that the version we have today is 99% accurate and un tampered.

And if you did follow the bible you would not be selling your daughter into slavery/ the very fact you say that tells me you are not familiar with the bible and the context of its messages.

Each opinion is their own though and I do not believe we can fully understand God as well. The finite cannot comprehend the infinite. As high the heAvens are above the earth so aren't His ways and His thoughts above ours.
 
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