FREESTYLE vs FOLKSTYLE wrestling in UFC...why freestyle DOMINATES in UFC AND wrestling competition

[-guerilla-]

This threadtitle has been bugging me...freestyle can’t dominate folk style in wrestling competition because there is no arena for this to happen...wrestling competition either only occurs in one ruleset or the other

as in what happens when folkstyle athletes try their hand at freestyle competition IE
World Championship
World Cup
Olympics...
that kind of thing

 

[-guerilla-]

Now now now 'Rilla.

You said Americans are folkstylists who switch to free after college. I, of course, disagreed with you. But you said it lol. And i listed Cejudo twice because he holds 2 belts, retard.

Of the 3 Dagi LWs (Khabib, Islam, and Khabilov), the best wrestler on any of their resumes is Abel Trujillo---a gatekeeper at best who wrestled at the lowest tier of American university wrestling (NAIA).

And you're not supposed to use spaces when hashtagging something...moron.

I just hashtag things to piss you off seems to be working

# crushed

I mentioned multiple times that cejudo is an extremely rare case of an American by nationality who has exclusively wrestled International Style...

however he is an American trained International wrestler

that means he was trained by folkstyle converts not freestyle specialists

Cejudo is an extremely unique and rare case that's why he was listed with an Asterix in my freestyle wrestlers who are dominating MMA list

# spin attempt crushed

I've also spoken at great length about why the very best wrestlers aren't going to do that good in MMA in the future you need to do your recon or you just look stupid

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...wrestling-is-not-best-mma-base.3983081/page-6

 

[-guerilla-]

In Folkstyle you're trying to get a takedown and maintain top control of an opponent. An opponent that is actively trying to get a reversal, or get an escape so he can take you down. The opponent is trying to stand back up or reverse the position. Unlike Freestyle wrestling where the guy on bottom is more or less just trying to flatten out and stall. How is that an inferior style for fighting?

Because wrestling is best for taking people down

off their feet to the ground

Ground Control and submissions ... that sort of thing is best left to sambo and giless BJJ

99% percent of the time of folkstyle athlete is controlling a guy fighting from turtle (in wrestling)

your opponent is trying to escape and reverse from Turtle not from Guard/ crosside or anywhere else that you will find yourself in MMA competition

Folkstyle teaches athletes to base up from their stomach to the turtle and try to hit the reversals and escapes from turtle

turtling is a terrible thing in MMA and usually gets you pounded or choked out

turtle is a very bad position in MMA and should be avoided however it is the standard in Judo and folkstyle wrestling

So long story short the very best thing wrestling does freestyle wrestlers do the very best and that's why if you're going to train in wrestling for MMA you're better off training in freestyle not folk Style

FOLKSTYLE teaches you to turtle

FREESTYLE teaches you to take opponents from their feet to the ground

Don't forget that most of the most powerful slams and throws in wrestling are banned in folk style as it is designed to be a safe sport for children

 

[-guerilla-]

Logic and 'Rilla have never been particularly close lol.

I understand why you're confused

first you need to learn how to wrestle and about the sport of wrestling

then learn about how it integrates into MMA

then come back and read the thread again

it'll make more sense

# recon 101

 

[-guerilla-]

If you look back to the Pride era it was quite rare but its definitely become more common recently, obviously the lack of knees/soccer kicks plays a factor in that but also I suspect fighters backgrounds/training environments do as well.

One of the biggest shifts in MMA relative to the Pride era in style to me seems to be the modern focus on escaping the ground via giving up your back. You always saw some of this of course but it seems like its become the dominant tactic these days and fighters either coming from a folkstyle background or training in one is I'd guess the reason?

I think you could argue though its also something that's grown up because of the skill sets people are facing. Non folkstyle wrestling and very high level submission grappling are becoming increasingly rare in MMA so fighters can go most or even all of their careers without ever facing them. You look at the success of Khabib again and to me it seems like part of it is he's so good at countering the standard escape everyone tries, when they give up their backs to try and stand up he either uses it to advance position or he stays on their backs as they get up and trips them back down.

This "just stand up" tactic has been talked up as a progression of MMA but in some ways I think its a devolution of MMA, shifting into a simpler narrower sport. Part of why Khabib's fights look so similar grappling wise is he's fighting opponents with rather narrow tactics who have no plan B when he has the answer to them.

Wow it sure is refreshing to find such a wise analytical digest of my threads

Thanks...

I think you're 100% right and that the sport has devolved in the stand up game thanks to the modern American Safe space rule sets

the Banning of soccer kick tactics and all the other rule fiddles they've done to Advantage The American Folk style wrestler has resulted in more and more and more American folk style wrestling tactics being used successfully in the MMA ring

they would have got you decapitated in original NHB MMA however they work great in modern safe space MMA so you will definitely see athletes giving up their back stepping up and just taking a few shots to get to their feet

Khabib wisely locked onto Conor McGregor's back and just threw a dirty face crank

You can see him doing this kind of tactic to a lot of folk style athletes as they fight like lions to get back up to their feet only to get dropped again and every time they turn their back and try to scramble back up to their feet he gets another shot at their throat

the Japanese, brazillian and Russian athletes have always had a more dangerous ground game than American athletes and I think it's starting to catch up to the biggest Golden Goose in safespace MMA... UFC

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/are-americans-falling-behind-in-mma.3894589/

 

[MartinGibson86]

I just hashtag things to piss you off seems to be working

# crushed

I mentioned multiple times that cejudo is an extremely rare case of an American by nationality who has exclusively wrestled International Style...

however he is an American trained International wrestler

that means he was trained by folkstyle converts not freestyle specialists

Cejudo is an extremely unique and rare case that's why he was listed with an Asterix in my freestyle wrestlers who are dominating MMA list

# spin attempt crushed

I've also spoken at great length about why the very best wrestlers aren't going to do that good in MMA in the future you need to do your recon or you just look stupid

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...wrestling-is-not-best-mma-base.3983081/page-6

Cejudo was a 4x State Champion and National HS Wrestler of the Year (2006) in folkstyle.

He switched to freestyle full time after HS.

You're a retard.

And how bout that Dagi who was gifted a draw the other night after being outgrappled in the 3rd??? lol

 

[dickcheney]

as in what happens when folkstyle athletes try their hand at freestyle competition IE
World Championship
World Cup
Olympics...
that kind of thing

What?

 

[-guerilla-]

Cejudo was a 4x State Champion and National HS Wrestler of the Year (2006) in folkstyle.

He switched to freestyle full time after HS.

You're a retard.

And how bout that Dagi who was gifted a draw the other night after being outgrappled in the 3rd??? lol

Cejudo is extremely unique as he has wrestled predominantly International even though he is an American citizen

that is an extremely rare scenario
And only occurs in a tiny handful of situations I shouldn't have said exclusively I should have said predominant as I have many times before when referring to cejudo

Just because you have a superior style of wrestling doesn't mean you're going to win every single time

Practicing freestyle does not make you invincible

It just means you have a slight Edge in international wrestling and MMA vs a folk style athlete who has spent most of his time turning a guy from Turtle to his back

 

[-guerilla-]

What?

There's plenty of times were a folk style athlete wrestles a freestyle athlete

Anytime an American enters International competition he is a folk style athlete wrestling against freestyle or Greco-Roman athletes

Except in extremely rare cases like Henry cejudo who is a predominant freestyle athlete even though he spent the majority of his life in the United States

 

[dickcheney]

There's plenty of times were a folk style athlete wrestles a freestyle athlete

Anytime an American enters International competition he is a folk style athlete wrestling against freestyle or Greco-Roman athletes

Except in extremely rare cases like Henry cejudo who is a predominant freestyle athlete even though he spent the majority of his life in the United States

This is pretty ridiculous, they aren’t wrestling folk style vs freestyle. There is no such thing. They don’t stop scoring gut wrenches all of a sudden because a gut wrench is nothing in folkstyle

 

[-guerilla-]

This is pretty ridiculous, they aren’t wrestling folk style vs freestyle. There is no such thing. They don’t stop scoring gut wrenches all of a sudden because a gut wrench is nothing in folkstyle

Well dick if you spend a couple decades wrestling folkstyle and a couple years wrestling freestyle you are in fact of folkstyle wrestler like it or not

You are technically a freestyle convert not a pure freestyle wrestler

Then take your ass into International competition and you will be a folkstyle wrestler wrestling against people who have never had a single day of folkstyle Practice in their life as they are 100% pure International wrestlers

There you have it

A folkstyle wrestler versus a freestyle wrestler

Like this:

 

[dickcheney]

Well dick if you spend a couple decades wrestling folkstyle and a couple years wrestling freestyle you are in fact of folkstyle wrestler like it or not

You are technically a freestyle convert not a pure freestyle wrestler

Then take your ass into International competition and you will be a folkstyle wrestler wrestling against people who have never had a single day of folkstyle Practice in their life as they are 100% pure International wrestlers

There you have it

A folkstyle wrestler versus a freestyle wrestler

Like this:

I wish I could see what Is going on in your head

Do they modify the rules for the folkstyle wrestlers who compete in international competition? No ?

Then I guess there is no arena for style vs style
Thank you

 

[-guerilla-]

I wish I could see what Is going on in your head

Do they modify the rules for the folkstyle wrestlers who compete in international competition? No ?

Then I guess there is no arena for style vs style
Thank you

Anytime you see an American wrestling in international competition you are looking at a folkstyle athlete against a Greco-Roman or freestyle athlete

Training part-time for a couple years doesn't make you a freestyle wrestler it makes you someone that converted from folkstyle it makes you a half-ass freestyle wrestler and it shows in international competition

 

[dickcheney]

Anytime you see an American wrestling in international competition you are looking at a folkstyle athlete against a Greco-Roman or freestyle athlete

Training part-time for a couple years doesn't make you a freestyle wrestler it makes you someone that converted from folkstyle it makes you a half-ass freestyle wrestler and it shows in international competition

Do they change the rules when American wresltlers compete internationally? Or do the rules remain the same and both athletes score points under the same ruleset?

 

[leto1776]

wait, people are still arguing with the moronic TS?

 

[-guerilla-]

Do they change the rules when American wresltlers compete internationally? Or do the rules remain the same and both athletes score points under the same ruleset?

WTF kind of tailspin are you trying to encourage

Do they "change the rules" for American athletes... (lol)

# spin bait

 

[dickcheney]

WTF kind of tailspin are you trying to encourage

Do they "change the rules" for American athletes... (lol)

# spin bait

Wait, so you’re telling me the American wrestlers are competing under freestyle/Greco rules in international competition? Oh so I guess it’s not folkstyle vs freestyle then

 

[-guerilla-]

the main thing this thread has proven is that 95% of sherdog knows Nothing about wrestling and 95% of American wrestlers know nothing about international wrestling

literally a tiny fraction of people responding to this thread even know wtf international wrestling is to start

The conversation has just started about international wrestling as the vast MAJORITY of American fans dont understand the difference between folkstyle, freestyle and Greco Roman

Now that soviet bloc athletes with some wrestling background are finally getting a shot at the mma golden goose Americans are looking up from their phones just long enough to wonder why americans are falling behind in MMA and cant win International wrestling

 

[-guerilla-]

Wait, so you’re telling me the American wrestlers are competing under freestyle/Greco rules in international competition? Oh so I guess it’s not folkstyle vs freestyle then

LOL

No

They are competing in international FOLKSTYLE competition

O man

This is too easy

When someone who has wrestled decades of folkstyle and then
(after it becomes obselete post college) they dabble in freestyle they are:
NOT REAL FREESTYLE WRESTLERS

THEY ARE FOLKSTYLE CONVERTS

THATS WHY THEY GET BEAT BY PURE FREESTYLE WRESTLERS IN FREESTYLE WRESTLING!!!!

if you play 20 years of rugby and 1 year of football and then challenge for the Superbowl YOUR GONNA GET BEAT BECAUSE YOUR NOT A PURE FOOTBALL PLAYER

YOU ARE A RUGBY CONVERT

# exhibit 1

 

[whoopsy]

No the best is freestyle, folkstyle, sambo, pancrase and judo combined

Which is Habib