For all the "Pride encouraged roids" talk relative to the UFC...

[AndrewGolota48]

There does not seem to be a whole lot of "smell test" evidence outside of a few cases, many of which were not top fighters anyway, and nothing really beyond what we have seen in the UFC.

1) Wanderlei immediately springs to mind as the biggest red flag example. Yes, I agree in his case it does attract attention that his body changed when he came to the UFC, etc.

2) Funny enough, Belfort was bigger in his UFC stints both before his Pride run and after his Pride run, than he was in Pride.

3) Mark Hunt is 41 years old with strict drug testing and appears similar to how he did as a young man in Pride. This hints at him being natural.

4) Werdum was a skinny stick figure in Pride.

5) Nog was skinnier and less muscular in Pride.

6) Fedor is debatable since he did lose muscle as his career progressed. He stated it was a change in training philosophy, but who knows.

7) Crocop's performance declined considerably in the UFC, but his physique did not change significantly. In fact I believe his biggest and most muscular fight weights were in the UFC.

8) Rampage did not appear to change at all.

9) Dan Henderson did not appear to change at all.

10) Overeem was super skinny in Pride and only turned into a behemoth later in K-1 and his Brock Lesnar UFC fight.

11) Mark Coleman was still huge but smaller in Pride than he was in his initial UFC run.

12) The fighters who screamed roids were mostly the fringe guys like Ron Waterman and Bob Sapp, who were never top contenders.

13) Randy Couture was in his late 40's while barely losing a step in his UFC career.

14). I'm tired of making this list but you get the gist.

15) Lombard, Yoel Romero, Shane Carwin, etc.

 

[Enders]

They were all juicing in Pride. But they were all juicing in the UFC too until USADA. I think many are getting around USADA as well.

Its not a Pride thing, or even an MMA thing, it's a professional athlete thing.

 

[Xuh]

They were all juicing in Pride. But they were all juicing in the UFC too until USADA. I think many are getting around USADA as well.

Its not a Pride thing, or even an MMA thing, it's a professional athlete thing.

nah

 

[AndrewGolota48]

They were all juicing in Pride. But they were all juicing in the UFC too until USADA. I think many are getting around USADA as well.

Its not a Pride thing, or even an MMA thing, it's a professional athlete thing.

I agree but what is sort of shocking is that Pride, with no testing, did not seem to have more PED use amongst its "serious fighters" than the UFC did, and heck perhaps even less!

 

[nanika]

16) Didn't Read

17) Pride Didn't Test

18) UFC/Commissions Do

19) Wanderlei Silva

20) Miss Freakshows Sometimes

 

[AndrewGolota48]

16) Didn't Read

17) Pride Didn't Test

18) UFC/Commissions Do

19) Wanderlei Silva

20) Miss Freakshows Sometimes

Well, bro, the interesting point is that despite the UFC testing, there does not appear to be a difference in PED use. Rogan and Schaub propaganda has blinded most of you to reality.

 

[Odoylerules4lyf]

I agree but what is sort of shocking is that Pride, with no testing, did not seem to have more PED use amongst its "serious fighters" than the UFC did, and heck perhaps even less!

You absolutely can not simply go by the eye test. Josh Barnett pissed hot what, 3 times before USADA? The man isn't exactly built like an Adonis. Tim Sylvia pissed hot too. Taking PEDs isn't going to automatically make these guys look like bodybuilders.

I don't like to point fingers at guys who haven't actually failed any tests but I would assume since PEDs were allowed in Pride a lot of fighters took advantage, particularly Brazilians, as it's much more accepted in their culture to use PEDs.

 

[FenoxSky]

You're using selective data to support an opinion and make it look like a fact.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

You absolutely can not simply go by the eye test. Josh Barnett pissed hot what, 3 times before USADA? The man isn't exactly built like an Adonis. Tim Sylvia pissed hot too. Taking PEDs isn't going to automatically make these guys look like bodybuilders.

I don't like to point fingers at guys who haven't actually failed any tests but I would assume since PEDs were allowed in Pride a lot of fighters took advantage, particularly Brazilians, as it's much more accepted in their culture to use PEDs.

You honestly sound like you're a Rogan and Schaub cult member. More accepted to take roids in Brazilian culture? Do you know silly that sounds considering the countless number of Americans who have been caught in every sport under the sun over the years?

By the way Tim Sylvia's physique wasn't amazing but it looked markedly better when he was on roids, the difference was quite clear. The difference of the physiques of Rampage, Nog, Werdum, Crocop, Henderson, etc were...non-existent.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

You're using selective data to support an opinion and make it look like a fact.

I pointed out Wanderlei, Ron Waterman, Sapp. You tell me the counter argument and where I'm wrong.

 

[Pyreen]

By the way Tim Sylvia's physique wasn't amazing but it looked markedly better when he was on roids, the difference was quite clear. .

Amazing that so many people dont get this. If you want to do an eye test in the first place, you dont compare fighters to some imaginary bodybuilding standard, you compare them to different versions of themselves.
You will see pronounced differences in guys like Royce during Saku II, Barnett, Sylvia etc., basically all the guys that are brought up by the "lol they always look like shit" guys.

 

[Odoylerules4lyf]

You honestly sound like you're a Rogan and Schaub cult member. More accepted to take roids in Brazilian culture? Do you know silly that sounds considering the countless number of Americans who have been caught in every sport under the sun over the years?

By the way Tim Sylvia's physique wasn't amazing but it looked markedly better when he was on roids, the difference was quite clear. The difference of the physiques of Rampage, Nog, Werdum, Crocop, Henderson, etc were...non-existent.

I say that based on time I have spent in Brazil, nothing more. Professional athletes use PEDs so of course all nationalities will test positive for them. This is mma not bodybuilding, it isn't all about the eye test, and eve if it were, Shogun and big Nog looked like shit and fought like shit when they came to the UFC, knee surgery and staph infection or not. Took them a while to straighten their shit out.

 

[MusterX]

nah

yah

 

[Xuh]

yah

nah

for starters I don't think the asian fighters in pride were juicing. Maybe a couple but mostly, no (especially not in the Bushido divs)

'all athletes are on teh roidz' is not true either

 

[Wariowokecancel]

There does not seem to be a whole lot of "smell test" evidence outside of a few cases, many of which were not top fighters anyway, and nothing really beyond what we have seen in the UFC.

1) Wanderlei immediately springs to mind as the biggest red flag example. Yes, I agree in his case it does attract attention that his body changed when he came to the UFC, etc.

2) Funny enough, Belfort was bigger in his UFC stints both before his Pride run and after his Pride run, than he was in Pride.

3) Mark Hunt is 41 years old with strict drug testing and appears similar to how he did as a young man in Pride. This hints at him being natural.

4) Werdum was a skinny stick figure in Pride.

5) Nog was skinnier and less muscular in Pride.

6) Fedor is debatable since he did lose muscle as his career progressed. He stated it was a change in training philosophy, but who knows.

7) Crocop's performance declined considerably in the UFC, but his physique did not change significantly. In fact I believe his biggest and most muscular fight weights were in the UFC.

8) Rampage did not appear to change at all.

9) Dan Henderson did not appear to change at all.

10) Overeem was super skinny in Pride and only turned into a behemoth later in K-1 and his Brock Lesnar UFC fight.

11) Mark Coleman was still huge but smaller in Pride than he was in his initial UFC run.

12) The fighters who screamed roids were mostly the fringe guys like Ron Waterman and Bob Sapp, who were never top contenders.

13) Randy Couture was in his late 40's while barely losing a step in his UFC career.

14). I'm tired of making this list but you get the gist.

15) Lombard, Yoel Romero, Shane Carwin, etc.

Read the Pride contract where they state that fighters WILL NOT be tested for roids. A contract guarantee.

 

[UL]

The ufc is just as dirty as pride

Lorenzo...

 

[AndrewGolota48]

Read the Pride contract where they state that fighters WILL NOT be tested for roids. A contract guarantee.

I'm aware of this, and that's why I made the thread. The interesting thing is that despite the differences in testing, PED use appears to be very similar in the two orgs, possibly even more common on the UFC if we exclude "freak show" fighters like Waterman and Sapp. Take Vitor, the posterboy for PED use: he was at his physically least impressive in Pride. In his UFC stint before Pride he was bloated with muscle, and in his UFC stint after Pride he was the TRTitor we all know and love. Rogan and Schaub love to bring up Wanderlei, which I can concede, but conveniently leave out the long list of UFC fighters who showed similar signs and officially got caught in many cases.

 

[thedevious]

Barnett was a roider for most of his career but never passed the eye test. Can't go off of just physique.

 

[Darwinambrosius]

TS, would you please provide photos of BJ Penn at 3.5% body fat? I recall you saying dolce got him there. Thanks.

 

[Xtal]

The only issue I have with this post is you referring to guys like Werdum as "stick figures." From afar, people with certain body types look skinny, like those with long limbs who don't have big gym muscles, but put them next to a fighter at the same weight and you see just how big they really are. Werdum has a really long torso, so he appears to be much skinnier than he actually is. Perfect example is Anderson Silva; you see him from afar and see a skinny dude, but then you see how big he really is when placed next to fighters of similar size.

Were they leaner when they were younger? Sure; every athlete or person in general is much leaner in their younger years, but I would hardly call it "skinny." It's not a PED thing, but an age thing. Years of physical performance will build up on their bodies and they're much bulkier at the end of their careers than the beginning, as their body has stretched and adjusted to that size, even if they actually decrease in weight. When he first fought Overeem and was lean, Overeem weighed 226 while Werdum weighed 242. When he faced Cain, he weighed 236. Against Hunt and Browne, 232. Yeah, Heavyweight weigh ins will fluctuate because they can eat basically however they want without cutting, so depending on when they ate that day it can be different, but you can still see the general decline.