Crime FL Teacher resigns after posters of MLK and Obama removed from his class

[Bald1]

Sure, wear it, wear a cross around your neck - whatever. Just don't talk about it except in an informative way - and praising your God for letting your school football team win is not informative.

Naah. A representative of a secular government should appear secular. Wear your religous indicators after hours, not while working for an organization that's supposed to be secular.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

In a statement released Thursday, school district officials refuted the allegations made by the teacher, Michael James, and claimed there were "inaccuracies" in his account of the incident.

https://www.pnj.com/story/news/educ...ory-black-leaders-bulletin-board/10297268002/

"Mr. James's teaching assignment for 2022-2023 was to be a very small unit (4-6 students) of Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) students," the statement read.

"Mr. James's room was, at that point, set up in a more 'traditional' classroom configuration, with rows of desks facing the front of the room, which is a wholly inappropriate use of space for a group of students like the ones he was assigned," according to the statement.

The behavior analyst told James that the bulletin board directly behind his teaching area had to be dedicated to state-required curricular materials that he would require to teach his specific students, according to the district.

"To be clear, due to the nature of this specific population of students, it is critical the instructional materials be within their line of sight during instruction, for the purposes of student focus and retention," read the district's statement.

"The Behavior Analyst observed his bulletin board was 'Awesome,' because of the history tied to it, but the language and reading levels on the posters were too complex for this particular group of students," the statement said.

TS dropping another bullshit culture war story.

 

[UFCUCF]

Wow, that is incredibly disingenuous.

Coach Kennedy wanted to thank god for victory, not preach to the players.

He waited until after the game when the kids were free to leave if they wanted.

The school told him he was not allowed to do so.

I'm not even Christian, but imagine a school telling a high school coach he was not allowed to wear a yarmulke?

I stand by my assessment. The coach could have thanked god in the car, at home, or anywhere else on his own, or with his family. To formally pray with his players in an organized way is an overt act of proselytization. It creates an "in group" consisting of other people who pray to his god in the manner he does and an "out group" of people who may choose not to pray to his god.

The yarmulke example is disingenuous. Nobody told the coach he couldn't wear a cross. I think Yarmulke, cross and MLK poster should be treated the same. We probably don’t NEED these things but maybe it’s good in public school to expose kids to different things.

The coach used his position of authority given to him by the State to GROOM these kids in his religion.

 

[Oddmonster]

Your talking about what someone is allowed to do after school hours, outside of a classroom, and with no educational benefit.

Can you show that seeing someone pray is significantly different from seeing any other symbol of religion? Is having a teacher wearing a hijab somehow less demonstrative of belief than someone taking a knee to pray? If so, why?

Also, can you recognize that you are not advocate a system devoid of faith, but rather advocating faith in an atheistic stance as preferable?

There is nothing educational about playing football. "Informative" is absolutely irrelevant in context of the activity.

I'm sorry, but nothing in your argument is remotely persuasive.

It is not persuasive to you - but the way you look at it is disingenuous. Do you really think starting to pray 1 second after the kids theoretically are allowed to leave, and you are still on school property, is the same as praying "after school hours and outside a classroom".
If this is really your argument, then 1 secound after kids can theoretically leave, while still on school grounds, a teacher/coach can start doing ANYTHING - because according to you it is after school hours, and there is no difference in where you are - class or the schools football field - same rules apply.

That you start talking about "faith" and "atheisme" makes it hard to take you serious.

 

[ineverpost]

Florida isn't even pretending that public school isn't pre-prison. They have to bring in any joe willing to take the job so the kids aren't out causing problems and the federal funds keep rolling in. Kids who have parents who are heavily invested in their education are very lucky. The system doesn't just automatically do it for you, it's main objective is to allow mom and dad to be at work every day. With the education system falling apart and states not even pretending to care, it's going to be up to parents.

 

[Ornife]

Florida isn't even pretending that public school isn't pre-prison. They have to bring in any joe willing to take the job so the kids aren't out causing problems and the federal funds keep rolling in. Kids who have parents who are heavily invested in their education are very lucky. The system doesn't just automatically do it for you, it's main objective is to allow mom and dad to be at work every day. With the education system falling apart and states not even pretending to care, it's going to be up to parents.

Especially considering substantial increases in the diagnosed rates of neurological and other developmental conditions its become ever more imperative for parents to take an active role in their childrens education.

Even in the best scenario with a well meaning and properly trained educator the task is simply too insurmountable for that individual to take on by themselves and for every student to be successful.

Too many kids in classrooms with to many behaviors and diagnosed learning disabilities...

 

[SBJJ]

Also no reason for students to know who the football coach prays to, but here we are. The coach threw his tantrum all the way to the Supreme Court.

Apples and oranges

The equivalent would be the coach forcing a prayer in the locker room before the game where the students would have little choice in the matter.

 

[SBJJ]

According to the spokesperson for the district, this is not what happened at all. It was a behavioral specialist who visited the classroom, and because it was a very small class of elementary school kids with autism, the bulletin board right in front of the teaching area had to be stuff from the curriculum so the kids could focus, and that he could put his other posters somewhere else in the room where it wouldn't distract the autistic kids from the curriculum. The guy didn't even object to what they told him, he agreed to move it and then cried racism after.

You got Jussie'd again.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...ters-being-removed-from-classroom/ar-AA10zrD2

Damn...

TS, you gotta stop this dude. What is this, like your 25th false story thread?

 

[SBJJ]

The Confederate Flag has past and contemporary association to hate. Confederate leaders have negative association. Other Presidents (Obama, Bush, Regan, JFK Jr., FDR, Clinton etc..) do not have the same sort of association.

*Reagan

 

[Confucamus]

Damn...

TS, you gotta stop this dude. What is this, like your 25th false story thread?

When the demand exceeds the supply…

 

[Confucamus]

Yea, I've noticed a big drop off of Conservative and Independent postings.

Or maybe they have all been purged. Was fun while it lasted.

Reddit's almost completely gone. There's no real discussion there anymore, aside from the more interesting subreddits. Look at how liberals on this board flood the place with every reddit talking point they can find. The Trump raid thread being the perfect example.

 

[Fugazy]

I stand by my assessment. The coach could have thanked god in the car, at home, or anywhere else on his own, or with his family. To formally pray with his players in an organized way is an overt act of proselytization. It creates an "in group" consisting of other people who pray to his god in the manner he does and an "out group" of people who may choose not to pray to his god.

The yarmulke example is disingenuous. Nobody told the coach he couldn't wear a cross. I think Yarmulke, cross and MLK poster should be treated the same. We probably don’t NEED these things but maybe it’s good in public school to expose kids to different things.

The coach used his position of authority given to him by the State to GROOM these kids in his religion.

You ever played team sports?

 

[Codpiece]

Know what successful black people and successful white people have in common?

They’re successful, and they’re people.

Seems weird to take these posters down just because they were of one skin colour.

 

[Ornife]

Malcolm X should be featured visually prominently in every US classroom.

 

[Two Crows]

Wearing a religious artifact is significantly different than engaging in a religious activity with students, which is what he was doing. Any student who doesn't believe similarly and engage is going to be left out and will end up feeling peer pressured into joining anyways. How does that happen if a teacher or coach wears something religious but doesn't talk about it?

He was a football coach, not a teacher.

If he believes in god, and wants to praise god in whatever manner his religion deems appropriate, he should be allowed to do so.

The coach's religious freedom does not yield to what a voluntary participant may feel.

Yes, if the non-Christian kid stays after the game with the Christian kids ... he might see them pray and thank god.
What is the problem?

Are you suggesting the Christians should be banned from practicing a religious belief because someone who is not Christian might stay for the post-game prayer?

 

[Two Crows]

I stand by my assessment. The coach could have thanked god in the car, at home, or anywhere else on his own, or with his family. To formally pray with his players in an organized way is an overt act of proselytization. It creates an "in group" consisting of other people who pray to his god in the manner he does and an "out group" of people who may choose not to pray to his god.

The yarmulke example is disingenuous. Nobody told the coach he couldn't wear a cross. I think Yarmulke, cross and MLK poster should be treated the same. We probably don’t NEED these things but maybe it’s good in public school to expose kids to different things.

The coach used his position of authority given to him by the State to GROOM these kids in his religion.

This would only be notable if it occurred during school hours, where and when the participants were required to be present and subject.

These prayers were not even a mandatory component of recreational activity. Religious freedom is not predicated upon when you "could" do something. Some religions contain a component of "bearing witness", which requires the acknowledgement to be public (i.e. not alone in your car).

An MLK poster is not a religious artifact, as far as I am aware, and is not significant to discussions of religious freedom.

These acts do not create an "in" or "out" group as you claim. Rather, they delineate the Christians from the non-Christians. The kids who choose to pray can easily be designated the "nerds" by the rest of the team.

Your use of the word "groom" appears partisan and dishonest, given the contemporary association of the term.

Honest question; are you claiming children's religions can be dictated, or even meaningfully influenced, solely by what their football coach chooses to do after the game is over and the team has been dismissed? If so, we will not be able to agree.

 

[UFCUCF]

This would only be notable if it occurred during school hours, where and when the participants were required to be present and subject.

These prayers were not even a mandatory component of recreational activity. Religious freedom is not predicated upon when you "could" do something. Some religions contain a component of "bearing witness", which requires the acknowledgement to be public (i.e. not alone in your car).

An MLK poster is not a religious artifact, as far as I am aware, and is not significant to discussions of religious freedom.

These acts do not create an "in" or "out" group as you claim. Rather, they delineate the Christians from the non-Christians. The kids who choose to pray can easily be designated the "nerds" by the rest of the team.

Your use of the word "groom" appears partisan and dishonest, given the contemporary association of the term.

Honest question; are you claiming children's religions can be dictated, or even meaningfully influenced, solely by what their football coach chooses to do after the game is over and the team has been dismissed? If so, we will not be able to agree.

Your answer seems sincere. If I can’t convince you of my position, maybe I can at least convince you that I hold my position sincerely.

I hear you about the significance of “school hours” but, this is the public school’s football team. By nature, the football happens (on public property) during hours school isn’t in session . Aren’t these all really school hours? If you are playing for the “Springfield Dolphins” it is the school’s team and publicly funded event. The kids know this coach because this is the dude they have to play for if they go out for their school’s team.

Does this coach’s religious belief require him to bare witness in this way? (I’m honestly asking). Maybe his religion requires him to coach for a private league if it requires him to try to convert other people’s kids. Does the coach help the kids of other faiths who are required to “bare witnesses” pray to THEIR faiths, or is this coach Christian prayer only?

I agree that an MLK poster is not religious, but political speech is the most highly protected level of speech in the first amendment. Apart from MLK’s obvious value as a historical and educational figure, the teacher has some free speech. Imagine if the Obama poster guy lead prayer to the Obama classroom poster with his students. It would still be really strange if it were done outside of school hours and totally optional. Are the students who pray to the Obama poster getting and special treatment or grades?

How do you admit that the prayer delineates Christians and non Christians without saying it also creates an in group/out group?

It wouldn’t sit right with me to deride the Christian athletes as “nerds” but, in our example, doing so would also be calling out the coach for HIS religious beliefs. In this example, the Christian Athletes’ beliefs are sanctioned by the authority figure. Isn’t it more likely the kids who don’t conform to the prayer could be made fun of (“Jew” or other?)

I use the term “groom” to point out there is an authority imbalance where the students choose to pray and the coach leads the prayer.

Yes, I absolutely agree that an authority figure outside of the home encouraging the family’s religious belief system can be meaningful for a child. I bet the coach thinks so. Doesn’t the First Amendment also require us the look at weather the authority figure encouraging a different belief system can have a chilling affect where it is different than what is taught at home?

 

[Rob Battisti]

This thread sucks.

 

[Zazen]

Lol it is. Honestly I’m looking for another forum. Reddit seems to have killed most Internet forums.

Bro who you fooling? You begged for your account to be reinstated, you had all the time to find a new forum then but you didn't. You straight up addicted to this place mate.

 

[ReligiousDiscipline]

Know what successful black people and successful white people have in common?

They’re successful, and they’re people.

Seems weird to take these posters down just because they were of one skin colour.

Another side to the story came out and the man was told to move the posters to another area in his room because a behavior specialist said he needed to put learning specific posters in that spot for the autistic students he was teaching. His entire classroom was set-up poorly for the students he was teaching.

The behavior analyst told James that the bulletin board directly behind his teaching area had to be dedicated to state-required curricular materials that he would require to teach his specific students, according to the district.

"To be clear, due to the nature of this specific population of students, it is critical the instructional materials be within their line of sight during instruction, for the purposes of student focus and retention," read the district's statement.

"The Behavior Analyst observed his bulletin board was 'Awesome,' because of the history tied to it, but the language and reading levels on the posters were too complex for this particular group of students," the statement said.

"The instructional materials could have been displayed appropriately, and Mr. James's display could simultaneously have been honored. We were surprised these basic communicative steps were not taken by such a veteran teacher."
https://www.pnj.com/story/news/educ...ory-black-leaders-bulletin-board/10297268002/