News Filoni and Brennan to replace Kathleen Kennedy at Lucasfilm

Oh, fuck off with this disingenuous bullshit. What's worse, it's not even accurate.

It made more than the takes from the international film market in 1977-1983 adjusted for inflation? Um...no it didn't. What was the top grossing foreign take for any movie in those years (every country combined except America)?

George Lucas:
  • 1977 -> Star Wars: Ep4 = #1, $303m (#2 made $171m, +77%) [$1.229bn in 2015 USD, more than Ep7 made]
  • 1980 -> Star Wars: Ep5 = #1, $257m (#2 made $40m, +642%) [$815m in 2017 USD, more than Ep8 made]
  • 1983 -> Star Wars: Ep6 = #1, $166m (#2 made $120m, +38%) [$617m in 2019 USD, more than Ep9 made]
Kathleen Kennedy:
  • 2015: Star Wars: Ep7 = #2, $1.13bn (#1 made $1.16bn, -3%)
  • 2017: Star Wars: Ep8 = #5, $731m (#1 made $1.001bn, -27%)
  • 2019: Star Wars: Ep9 = #12, $558m (#1 made $1.941bn, -71%)

Not that anyone should care about comparing the immature foreign film market 50 years ago to today. You could adjust the second biggest earning films at the foreign box office from the second and third films back then (1980,1983), and they wouldn't touch the top earners in the corresponding years (2017, 2019) from the 2nd and 3rd films of the prequel trilogy. Hollywood's export revenue was tiny in comparison to today.

And it only gets worse when you factor in the total budget: production and marketing. Rise of Skywalker cost $594m total. It barely broke even. Meanwhile, the combined total budget for all three is estimated to have been around $60m-$65m. So even with the theaters taking a over half of the sum $1.7bn worldwide take it probably generated over 15x what it cost to make. It made everyone involved stinking rich.

You're arguing with yourself. My post that you responded to had the link citing worldwide earnings by SW movie, with figures from Box Office Mojo/IMDb. Here it is again since you missed it:


I never made any claims about how each SW movie compared to leading movies in the foreign market nor about the relative size of the foreign market. Why are you bringing this up?

I was responding to another poster's claim that the "franchise has mostly been a disaster [because] Ep9 ROS brought in half of what Ep7 did." And I pointed out that by worldwide earnings, ROTJ and ESB also did about half of ANH. And ROS had higher worldwide earnings than ROTJ and ESB in both absolute (of course) and inflation adjusted terms. I'd also add that doing half the worldwide earnings of TFA is not necessarily bad when TFA was by far the highest earning SW movie.

May you suffer lifelong penile disfunction for making me defend the steaming pile of shit that was the ST. But the figures are what they are.
 
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I might let Star Wars and Star Trek fade away into obscurity for a few decades.

Then reboot it with new talent, new ideas, and new production values. An entirely new vision.

It's going to take a few decades.
 
Brendan Filone?

WFGgGT.gif
What i thought reading the thread title too lol



The other one, Filone? ....
I don't know

Also, I'm glad she killed it. There I said it.
It's enough already
 
You're arguing with yourself. My post that you responded to had the link citing worldwide earnings by SW movie, with figures from Box Office Mojo/IMDb. Here it is again since you missed it:


I never made any claims about how each SW movie compared to leading movies in the foreign market nor about the relative size of the foreign market. Why are you bringing this up?

I was responding to another poster's claim that the "franchise has mostly been a disaster [because] Ep9 ROS brought in half of what Ep7 did." And I pointed out that by worldwide earnings, ROTJ and ESB also did about half of ANH. And ROS had higher worldwide earnings than ROTJ and ESB in both absolute (of course) and inflation adjusted terms. I'd also add that doing half the worldwide earnings of TFA is not necessarily bad when TFA was by far the highest earning SW movie.

May you suffer lifelong penile disfunction for making me defend the steaming pile of shit that was the ST. But the figures are what they are.
Because you're presenting inflation-adjusted "worldwide earnings" by ignoring the context of how much more lucrative the foreign film market is today and in the 2010's versus the 1970's.

The Force Awakens was not the highest earning Star Wars movie. Adjusted for inflation, especially in the domestic market, the original Star Wars still trounces it. You can only control for inflation meaningfully across one currency. For Ep9 to take in half isn't at all analogous because ANH was such a tremendous outlier. In fact, if you look at only the initial box office run, it is believed by many to be the #1 most lucrative movie in domestic history, because Gone with the Wind has had something like six theater runs.

Domestic Adjusted Box Office Gross, All-Time Rank
  • Ep 4 = #2
  • Ep 5 = #13
  • Ep 6 = #17
Meanwhile:
  • Ep 7 = #11
  • Ep 8 = #44
  • Ep 9 = #88

Furthermore, you don't seem to understand the expansion of the potential worldwide market in 2015. The total screens across the world and the average ticket price have risen dramatically due to so much of the world outside the US developing rapidly in the past half century. Yet there is still a huge disparity. Consider that the average ticket price in India remains ~$1.50 today. So it makes more sense to look at total tickets sold.

There was between 4.1bn-4.7bn people in the world back in 1977-1983, and probably half the existing movie screens outside the US, yet the original trilogy still sold far more tickets than the prequel trilogy Kennedy headed in the domestic market. Going from 108m tickets to 55m tickets when there have been dozens of films that have sold more than 80m tickets is awful. Going from 178m to 94m when there have only been two movies that have sold more than 143m isn't attrition reflecting poor fan retention. It just indicates what a freak outlier ANH was. And as I've shown, the original trilogy was far more dominant in the international market back then. So the ticket superiority would only swell if we considered international sales.

TLDR Cliffs: Ep7 was NOT the most successful SW movie by any meaningful metric.

The original trilogy was a cultural sensation. It captured the imagination of the world. It ended in critical and commercial acclaim. This sequel trilogy soured the brand, provoked a worldwide backlash, tainted the legacy, and alienated hundreds of millions of longtime fans at a minimum. It nosedived box office takes, especially in the domestic market, culminating in a film that was so expensive and so tepidly received that despite huge tax breaks it barely broke even-- possibly was even a loss for the studio.

There's a reason Disney suddenly called an audible on its plans to churn out a bunch more SW movies in the theater and on Disney+. Because, in fact, that poster was right. The IP was beginning to tank.
 
Thought I'd expand on my lack of enthusiasm for finally getting what we, the fans, have claimed to desire for over 7 years at this point.

Kathleen Kennedy should have been removed as LucasFilm President after two things happened.
*Ep8 TLJ bringing in significantly less than Ep7 TFA.
*Solo being forced to reshoot 3/4ths of the movie and royally bombing... The only SW movie to ever bomb at that boxoffice.

After that the franchise has mostly been a disaster, with Ep9 ROS bringing in half of what Ep7 did, and everything after has been delegated to Disney+. The occasional quality SW (Last 4 episodes of Clone Wars Season 7 & Mandolorian Seasons 1&2, Tales of the Jedi/Sith) were well received due to Kathleen's lack of involvement.

Everything else... Mandolorian Season 3, Ahsoka, Skeleton Crew, Kenobi, Boba Fett, The Acolyte... complete shit.

The one series that I've heard high praise for - but received extremely low ratings - Andor, really shows the incompetence of LucasFilm for finally making a damn good show but they put no marketing behind it.
That said, just like Solo, making an expensive series about who was believed to be a boring character and is known to die at the end of Rogue One... not the smartest idea to bring in viewers.

And Kathleen Kennedy's incompetence wasn't restricted to the Star Wars franchise... She also destroyed Indiana Jones and it bombed at the boxoffice.

So, for seven years now she's deserved to be fired. So why is she leaving now? Because she's old.
She's 72 years old and made hundreds of millions off destroying the film studio she was put in charge of.

She's not fired. She has the power to stay on as LucasFilm President for 13 years, 7 of which have been complete failures, she probably could stay around if she wanted to and she probably hand-picked her successors.

Also the Mandolorian movie is in post-production, and from what I hear Starfighter is either currently filming or wrapped filming. They will have her fingerprints and teeth marks all over every aspect of those movies.

After they bomb (in all probability) Star Wars will absolutely be dead.
I'll be shocked if the new Presidents will be able to do anything decent after she leaves because she didn't want to appoint anyone that could upstage her.

So, that's why I'm so confident with my statement of 'Nothing will change.'

/ Rant Over.
Kenobi was good, you didnt like it? There obi and vaders fights were badass
 
I might let Star Wars and Star Trek fade away into obscurity for a few decades.

Then reboot it with new talent, new ideas, and new production values. An entirely new vision.

It's going to take a few decades.
What makes you can just do that? When it cam out Star wars was unique with peak special effects. Now plenty of movies and tv shows have that. The market could be flooded with space adventure stories in the next 20 years and people can forget SW existed.
 
I can't help think anyone can outperform KK's shit management of the Star Wars franchise.
 
Because you're presenting inflation-adjusted "worldwide earnings" by ignoring the context of how much more lucrative the foreign film market is today and in the 2010's versus the 1970's.

The Force Awakens was not the highest earning Star Wars movie. Adjusted for inflation, especially in the domestic market, the original Star Wars still trounces it. You can only control for inflation meaningfully across one currency. For Ep9 to take in half isn't at all analogous because ANH was such a tremendous outlier. In fact, if you look at only the initial box office run, it is believed by many to be the #1 most lucrative movie in domestic history, because Gone with the Wind has had something like six theater runs.

Domestic Adjusted Box Office Gross, All-Time Rank
  • Ep 4 = #2
  • Ep 5 = #13
  • Ep 6 = #17
Meanwhile:
  • Ep 7 = #11
  • Ep 8 = #44
  • Ep 9 = #88

Furthermore, you don't seem to understand the expansion of the potential worldwide market in 2015. The total screens across the world and the average ticket price have risen dramatically due to so much of the world outside the US developing rapidly in the past half century. Yet there is still a huge disparity. Consider that the average ticket price in India remains ~$1.50 today. So it makes more sense to look at total tickets sold.

There was between 4.1bn-4.7bn people in the world back in 1977-1983, and probably half the existing movie screens outside the US, yet the original trilogy still sold far more tickets than the prequel trilogy Kennedy headed in the domestic market. Going from 108m tickets to 55m tickets when there have been dozens of films that have sold more than 80m tickets is awful. Going from 178m to 94m when there have only been two movies that have sold more than 143m isn't attrition reflecting poor fan retention. It just indicates what a freak outlier ANH was. And as I've shown, the original trilogy was far more dominant in the international market back then. So the ticket superiority would only swell if we considered international sales.

TLDR Cliffs: Ep7 was NOT the most successful SW movie by any meaningful metric.

The original trilogy was a cultural sensation. It captured the imagination of the world. It ended in critical and commercial acclaim. This sequel trilogy soured the brand, provoked a worldwide backlash, tainted the legacy, and alienated hundreds of millions of longtime fans at a minimum. It nosedived box office takes, especially in the domestic market, culminating in a film that was so expensive and so tepidly received that despite huge tax breaks it barely broke even-- possibly was even a loss for the studio.

There's a reason Disney suddenly called an audible on its plans to churn out a bunch more SW movies in the theater and on Disney+. Because, in fact, that poster was right. The IP was beginning to tank.

Pablo? Pablo Honey? Are you washing your ass? You... bastard.

Bro. I don't disagree with most of what you're saying except your refusal to accept the figures I've cited, using the same source data you are (Box Office Mojo). I've never said TFA outdid ANH in ticket sales or market share of foreign or domestic movie sales. I've said TFA was the highest grossing SW movie and indeed it is:

$2.07B Lifetime Worldwide gross, making it #6 all time worldwide



Adjusted for inflation, that's $2.76B, still #1 among SW movies. Inflation adjusted, ANH was #2 at $1.99B.



And if we're talking domestic market, TFA is #1 all time at $937MM



You're arguing ANH hypothetically would have made more if every ticket brought in the 2019 average ticket price? FOH. That ignores price elasticity of demand, social, technological and market changes across eras. It disregards the impact of internet and streaming and that BB-8 is big in China and Chewbacca isn't.

1767884767312.png


Was ANH a bigger cultural phenom than TFA? Fucking of course. ANH created a new movie genre, changed the game and launched the 2nd most valuable movie IP of all time. And yes it sold 178 million tickets, more than any other SW movie. But by your source data, TFA sold 108 million tickets, more than any other movie since 1997's Titanic and #2 among SW movies after ANH.

And for continuing to make me defend the ST, I hope you enjoy chronic hemorrhoids and inopportune flatulence to go with your lifetime penile disfunction.

baby-middle-finger.gif
 
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Pablo? Pablo Honey? Are you washing your ass? You... bastard.

Bro. I don't disagree with most of what you're saying except your refusal to accept the figures I've cited, using the same source data you are (Box Office Mojo). I've never said TFA outdid ANH in ticket sales or market share of foreign or domestic movie sales. I've said TFA was the highest grossing SW movie and indeed it is:

$2.07B Lifetime Worldwide gross, making it #6 all time worldwide



And if we're talking domestic market, TFA is #1 all time at $937MM

Cool, it was "the highest grossing".
harrison-ford-who-gives-a-shit.gif


Gone with the Wind only made somewhere between $20-$30m in its first theater run way back in 1939. Congratulations to The Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel in 2015, it made more than Gone with the Wind!
YimP3VJ.jpeg

Adjusted for inflation, that's $2.76B, still #1 among SW movies. Inflation adjusted, ANH was #2 at $1.99B.

harrison-ford-popcorn.gif


I didn't use Box Office Mojo for foreign takes because BOM doesn't cite a single dollar of international revenue for the original run. This is why I'm mocking any figures we would use. We're off into imaginary-land when we do this because you can't apply USD inflation conversions to foreign currencies. You have to do each individually, and even then, you're only adjusting inflation for that specific currency. That article doesn't show its work, so I have no idea what inflation calculator they are using (there are different methodologies for inflation adjustment), and what dates for each international release they are using to apply per-currency adjustments for the international take: if they are at all. Realistically, it would only be possible to adjust after currency conversions to USD at the time, so this data is further corrupted because all one is really calculating is the historical strength of USD conversion rates relative to markets. And for what? To compare figures for limited theater runs from 20 years later? It's a joke.

Any raw adjustments favor ANH. Keeping it apples to apples, using our official government CPI inflation calculator, only comparing the original runs domestically (remembering there were 220m Americans in 1977 compared to 330m+ counting illegals in 2015):
  • Ep4 ANH = $1.603bn (from $775m in May-1977 to Nov-2025)
  • Ep7 TFA = $1.283bn (from $936m in Dec-2015 to Nov-2025)

Finally, the criticism of Kennedy's leadership is never focused on TFA. People actually liked that movie, mostly. It was just a reskin of ANH. Just like they liked Rogue One. It was the woke 2nd and 3rd films that destroyed the franchise, and drove the IP off a cliff. That's what @GearSolidMetal was talking about. That's what cratered the theme park. Anyone trying to defend it is ignoring the reality of the revenues. Kennedy's tenure at the helm of SW was a financial and popular failure. Bringing up China? The market that didn't exist in 1977 that is cranking out an animated film with a $2.2bn domestic take in 2025? Let's see, how did Disney's Kennedy-led SW ultimately capitalize on that market...

Forbes: ‘4 Key Reasons 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Is A Catastrophic Flop In China

really-justin-timberlake.gif
 
I don't give a fuck how much money the ST made..

...it sucked so bad the PT looked OT level in comparison

It sucked. Full stop. Pull whatever $ amount you want, McDonald's makes billions of dollars, and sometimes scratches an inch when my inner racoon craves trash, but nobody in their right mind would call it fine dining.
 
What makes you can just do that? When it cam out Star wars was unique with peak special effects. Now plenty of movies and tv shows have that. The market could be flooded with space adventure stories in the next 20 years and people can forget SW existed.
That's the genius of it.
 
That's the genius of it.
Co-signed.

Christ... can't we put some effort into new, or more unique ideas? It'd force the industry to pivot away from recycling 40+ year old IP's for a change?

We only get like 2-3 sci-fi/adventure films per year, tops.

Sick of them all being Star wars/Terminator/Star Trek requels, pre-boots and re-imaginings
 
Co-signed.

Christ... can't we put some effort into new, or more unique ideas? It'd force the industry to pivot away from recycling 40+ year old IP's for a change?

We only get like 2-3 sci-fi/adventure films per year, tops.

Sick of them all being Star wars/Terminator/Star Trek requels, pre-boots and re-imaginings
Don't forget Aliens and ... (was about to say Predator...but there's hope there)

That said, those IPs could work if the writers had respect for the lore and didn't stray from what the hard-core fanbase loves.

The fucking beauty is...you can set things in those universes away from the established characters, and as long as you stay true to lore it can work...

Noprequels reboots or re-imagines needed... except for now that some of them are FUBAR you have to reboot or ignore the trash.
 
Don't forget Aliens and ... (was about to say Predator...but there's hope there)

That said, those IPs could work if the writers had respect for the lore and didn't stray from what the hard-core fanbase loves.

The fucking beauty is...you can set things in those universes away from the established characters, and as long as you stay true to lore it can work...

Noprequels reboots or re-imagines needed... except for now that some of them are FUBAR you have to reboot or ignore the trash.
Very true.

I think the answer is if you're gonna keep returning to the same wells eventually, ffs have the confidence to take a year or 2 off.
MCU, SW, DC, ST..

So many of these franchises would have massively benefitted from longer breaks in-between each new installment.
It's never gonna be that way bc youd be leaving money on the table to not strike while the iron is hot.

But I feel like whatever audience-goodwill these franchises all had at one point has been used up on things like phase 4, Flash and Superman, the last jedi etc.

Go away for a few years, let us start to miss you and then come roaring back
 
Very true.

I think the answer is if you're gonna keep returning to the same wells eventually, ffs have the confidence to take a year or 2 off.
MCU, SW, DC, ST..

So many of these franchises would have massively benefitted from longer breaks in-between each new installment.
It's never gonna be that way bc youd be leaving money on the table to not strike while the iron is hot.

But I feel like whatever audience-goodwill these franchises all had at one point has been used up on things like phase 4, Flash and Superman, the last jedi etc.

Go away for a few years, let us start to miss you and then come roaring back

Was just having this convo with my son and the current state of the MCU...explained to him Infinity War/Endgame was 10 years of build up...a masterful slow burn, and they did it right, spread out the movies with different characters...separate them, bring them all together every few years...that was peak MCU, that's why I don't think Doomsday will be as impactful sadly...
 
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