Fighting a dangerous top 5 opponent Vs. Waiting for a title shot

[AnotherOldGuy]

Looks like the days of a top contender fighting another top guy while the champion is busy are over.

Young Conor Mcgregor used to fight anyone on route to his title shot.

GSP fought Koscheck coming off his loss to Serra. I always respected that.

Rich Franklin always fought a bunch of contenders after his losses to Anderson.

Nowadays guys just wait.

Its now a potentially million dollar business for the top fighters. So what are the risk-rewards for taking the top contender fight versus waiting for the title fight?

Taking the fight:

potential reward -- $10K to $20K, $50K win bonus and bragging rights if you win, plus chance for big money fight still there.
potential risk -- Losing the chance for a big money fight.

Waiting for the title fight:

potential reward -- winning the title and likely a million dollars in the next fight.
potential risk -- having to wait half a year with no fight ... ie losing $50K or so in fight earnings.

Do you take risks on million dollar business deals? Because any business man will tell you it'd be insane to take the fight.

The problem isn't the fighters, its the huge difference in pay between winning a title and fighting another top contender. The fighters aren't stupid (and even if they are, their management will point out the financial reality) -- unless they're independently wealthy like Penn, they should wait.

Very few of them have any other marketable skills -- if they don't make money while they can in the UFC they're going to be working for minimum wage the rest of their lives. Its silly to risk that for bragging rights.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

With all due respect,,, I'm not sure about this

Top 10 guys now right..... Maybe top 5.

They sit out and demand fiddy % more pay... But the sitting means they only are fighting about once a year.... So they are making less than if they had fought twice at the going rate.

The UFC needs to get better at negotiating so that Champs are prolific... If the top guys (including champs) were fighting twice a year, we could have all the top contenders receiving the shots they earned.... Plus the occasional super fight... All without holding up divisions...

One or two are getting big bank via waiting... But not most of them.

But once you're champion you can earn more in a single fight than in five or even ten regular fights. Plus the constant risk of a career ending injury in taking the non-title fight. With what seems to be the UFC pay policy, you're simply better off to wait for the chance of making big money than risking everything for a few $10k.

 

[Lawrence]

But once you're champion you can earn more in a single fight than in five or even ten regular fights. Plus the constant risk of a career ending injury in taking the non-title fight. With what seems to be the UFC pay policy, you're simply better off to wait for the chance of making big money than risking everything for a few $10k.

I don't disagree.. I just don't like the result. It's good fights and lots of them that I want to see.

Almost every division is jammed... Contenders who have earned their shot are on the shelf. Almost everyone snivels that the PPV's lack starpower… That's because the stars are only fighting half as much as they ought to be...

Like I said... The UFC needs to get better at negotiating. Sweeten the pot for the "talent" so that they fight more often and the cards are more robust.... Not really blaming the fighters... I just wanna see them fight more often.

 

[felmmando]

Edgar gets undeserved title shots left and right so it didn't really matter. He already got one against Holloway, now he will drop 1 weight class and get yet another title shot against cejudo.

Kind of silly to call it undeserved when he tore through the division. The two people who beat him got their shots and lost.

 

[Gilday]

Ngannou fought 3 top fighters and KO'ed them all in 1 round, and he's still not getting his rematch
Colby won an interim title then came back to fight Lawler and still isn't getting the title shot
Ferguson has deserved a title fight for about 3 years now

Can't blame fighters for setting out when the UFC sets a shitty precedent

 

[Fight Professor]

With all due respect,,, I'm not sure about this

Top 10 guys now right..... Maybe top 5.

They sit out and demand fiddy % more pay... But the sitting means they only are fighting about once a year.... So they are making less than if they had fought twice at the going rate.

The UFC needs to get better at negotiating so that Champs are prolific... If the top guys (including champs) were fighting twice a year, we could have all the top contenders receiving the shots they earned.... Plus the occasional super fight... All without holding up divisions...

One or two are getting big bank via waiting... But not most of them.

Fighters have many outlets to earn money these days - coaching, seminars, commercials/movies and even instagram. And a lot more people care about UFC champions vs contenders. The interest in them would drop down dramatically if they were to lose the belt quickly.

 

[Lawrence]

Fighters have many outlets to earn money these days - coaching, seminars, commercials/movies and even instagram. And a lot more people care about UFC champions vs contenders. The interest in them would drop down dramatically if they were to lose the belt quickly.

Can’t argue with that.

Thanks for the response

I just want to see those top guys fight more often.

 

[BGknockout]

The way i see it is, who gives a shit. Fight whoever in the top 5 cuz when ur champ ur gonna fight anyone in the top 5 anyway.

 

[ShreddinMMA]

Depends on the situation.

If it's a short wait, a fighter should wait.

If if it's a long wait, and there are other contenders who could leap frog them with a solid performance, then they should fight.

 

[Franklin U.]

Lol- if you're a UFC top contender, you mind as well just worry whatever gets you most money cause rankings obviously dont mean anything - get a glob of wet toilet paper and throw it against wall and see what happens ( just make sure you talk shit while you're doing it)

 

[mkess101]

Can’t argue with that.

Thanks for the response

I just want to see those top guys fight more often.

Me too. The problem is, the UFC doesn't care, and they believe (maybe rightfully so, sadly) that the BRAND is what sells, and the fighters are ancillary.

Let's take Ferguson right now for example. Everyone knows Tony vs Khabib is the fight to make. Will be a big deal, but honestly any Khabib fight kind of is now. Not Conor big, but big. So because of Khabib's rise in popularity, the UFC has leverage to lowball Tony. If they make him a shitty offer, he's contractually obligated to say nothing of the specifics. The UFC can say "We offered Tony the title fight, he turned it down." They don't have to say they offered him $100k when he should get paid at least 10x that. So the UFC gets their hype/spin machine going and offers it to Gaethje. They lowball him too (though it's not as big a fight now so he's maybe not worth quite as much, but whatever), but he gets to jump the real #1 contender so maybe he takes it. And now the UFC is in full hype mode, selling casuals on how amazing Gaethje is, showing his every recent KO, etc. Yeah, Dana gets asked about Tony and gives his canned "Tony didn't want to fight" bullshit, and eventually people move on.

That's just our sad reality as hardcore fans. We may not get to see the actual deserving, best guys fight each other because of money. I can't stand Colby, but there has to be a way that he and the UFC can come to an agreement to get him in the cage with Usman. Otherwise...what actual meaning do the belts really have? Do they really represent the best in the division, or the best of the guys willing to take the UFC's "take it or leave it" deal?

 

[ChumpyKiwi]

My opinion is, if you truly believe you are the best fighter in the world at any given time, you will fight anyone at any given time. Max is a real one

 

[John makfresshi]

I get it. Your career can be over at any moment. Gotta get that guaranteed money when you can

even if you completely believe in your abilities. if you risk that big payday you could get injured even if you win the extra fight and it all goes down the drain. Should definitely always respect the hell out of guys that do choose to risk it though.

Frankie is one of the most boring point fighters ever but he has big old New Jersey balls for taking the Tcity fight. He obviously is a guy i have great respect for, but his fights are generally smoke breaks or grab a plate of snacks and take my time events for me

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

I don't disagree.. I just don't like the result. It's good fights and lots of them that I want to see.

Almost every division is jammed... Contenders who have earned their shot are on the shelf. Almost everyone snivels that the PPV's lack starpower… That's because the stars are only fighting half as much as they ought to be...

Like I said... The UFC needs to get better at negotiating. Sweeten the pot for the "talent" so that they fight more often and the cards are more robust.... Not really blaming the fighters... I just wanna see them fight more often.

I agree, and like you I think the solution is in the UFC paying more for non-title holders. If you can make close to as much money for fighting a top contender as for holding a title, then everyone will go for it. If not, then only an idiot (or someone already rich) will take a chance on missing a title fight.

 

[r-harper-1]

Its now a potentially million dollar business for the top fighters. So what are the risk-rewards for taking the top contender fight versus waiting for the title fight?

Taking the fight:

potential reward -- $10K to $20K, $50K win bonus and bragging rights if you win, plus chance for big money fight still there.
potential risk -- Losing the chance for a big money fight.

Waiting for the title fight:

potential reward -- winning the title and likely a million dollars in the next fight.
potential risk -- having to wait half a year with no fight ... ie losing $50K or so in fight earnings.

Do you take risks on million dollar business deals? Because any business man will tell you it'd be insane to take the fight.

The problem isn't the fighters, its the huge difference in pay between winning a title and fighting another top contender. The fighters aren't stupid (and even if they are, their management will point out the financial reality) -- unless they're independently wealthy like Penn, they should wait.

Very few of them have any other marketable skills -- if they don't make money while they can in the UFC they're going to be working for minimum wage the rest of their lives. Its silly to risk that for bragging rights.

But what if you’re holding out for a title shot that doesn’t even come ?

 

[Portland8242]

Me too. The problem is, the UFC doesn't care, and they believe (maybe rightfully so, sadly) that the BRAND is what sells, and the fighters are ancillary.

Let's take Ferguson right now for example. Everyone knows Tony vs Khabib is the fight to make. Will be a big deal, but honestly any Khabib fight kind of is now. Not Conor big, but big. So because of Khabib's rise in popularity, the UFC has leverage to lowball Tony. If they make him a shitty offer, he's contractually obligated to say nothing of the specifics. The UFC can say "We offered Tony the title fight, he turned it down." They don't have to say they offered him $100k when he should get paid at least 10x that. So the UFC gets their hype/spin machine going and offers it to Gaethje. They lowball him too (though it's not as big a fight now so he's maybe not worth quite as much, but whatever), but he gets to jump the real #1 contender so maybe he takes it. And now the UFC is in full hype mode, selling casuals on how amazing Gaethje is, showing his every recent KO, etc. Yeah, Dana gets asked about Tony and gives his canned "Tony didn't want to fight" bullshit, and eventually people move on.

That's just our sad reality as hardcore fans. We may not get to see the actual deserving, best guys fight each other because of money. I can't stand Colby, but there has to be a way that he and the UFC can come to an agreement to get him in the cage with Usman. Otherwise...what actual meaning do the belts really have? Do they really represent the best in the division, or the best of the guys willing to take the UFC's "take it or leave it" deal?

Dead bang on.

And at WW, the UFC will use Leon Edwards to screw Colby over. Lowball Colby, go off on the media about him ducking Usman, and saying he "missed his opportunity" and they gave it to Edwards (who they're also lowballing, but he won't turn down the title shot cause he knows the basic challenger offer is still much more than what he normally gets paid).

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

But what if you’re holding out for a title shot that doesn’t even come ?

That's part of the calculation a manager is supposed to take. Again, there are no guarantees in business, so you try to figure out what is the most likely scenario (typically if you've been promised a title shot then you have a fairly good chance of getting it if you don't lose in the meantime, but a very poor chance of getting it if you lose before it happens) -- and then try to figure out the risk/reward.

The best solution would be for the UFC to pay top contenders well to fight each other -- then losing before a title shot wouldn't mean such a large potential loss of income. But currently non-title fights (except for the really big names) seem to pay very little, so its not worth taking them if it means potentially losing a very lucrative title shot.