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Fighter Safety

GSPSAKU

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@Brown
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I have taken a few days to think about this thoroughly before posting and I rarely make threads unless it is something I feel very strongly about and the co-main at Belem certainly warrants it.

Watching the entire fight, and more importantly the last minute of the fight, between Shevchenko and Cachoiera was fairly disturbing and I was not surprised by Dana's reaction as well as that of many fans and fighters alike. It was a brutal assault between arguably the #2 ranked 125lber and an untested, unknown, "undefeated" prospect. Not only was Shevchenko arguably the #2 ranked fighter, her last fight was a hotly contested fight for the UFC World Title where she lost by split decision, meaning at least one judge saw the fight in her favor. The reason this is important is because it was the UFC's decision to put a debuting fighter up against the #2 fighter in the entire division and that got me thinking.

Dana clearly went after Mario Yamasaki, going as far to suggest that he never ref a UFC fight again. I do think if the fight had been among the male fighters in the UFC, Dana's reaction may not have been as harsh and we all must admit, that plays a role in our emotions and reactions as well. And it is true, part of the ref's responsibility and duty to ensure the safety of the fighters inside the cage but does the UFC not have any responsibility in this?

The one thing we have ignored, and continue to ignore in the MMA, is the corner's responsibility. Often times in boxing, a corner will stop a fight before a ref will. In MMA, it's something that rarely ever occurs and if it does occur, it usually occurs in-between rounds. The corner's responsibilities and duties are to help the fighter to obtain victory AND to protect them from unnecessary damage. In MMA, we never hold the corner responsible but why is that? The coach and main cornerman are usually one and the same. The coach is the one closest to the fighter, knows the fighter best, and has the best rapport with the fighter. If the ref is not saving the fighter, why would the coach/cornerman not throw in the towel to save his fighter and let his fighter live to fight another day? The last time I can recall a towel being thrown DURING the fight would be by Nate Diaz's corner.

So my question is...who is MOST responsible for a fighter's safety and why?

1. The ref for not stopping it when it's clear one fighter is not defending themselves intelligently and just taking damage?

2. The Organization (Dana and co) for matching a top 3 fighter, a fighter who just fought for the title and came very close to winning it, against a debuting and untested fighter? It's absolutely irresponsible match-making at its worst.

3. The fighter's cornermen, who's sole responsibilities are to take care of their fighter and help them win?
 
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didntread.gif
 
U guys are biased as shit, Mario did a good job

It’s not like woman hits that hard, look at her face afterward and tell me honestly that CAIN vs JDS 2&3 isn’t worse

I will bet u a whole house JDS suffered more damage from Cains punches than that no name girl
 
How surprising... a fighter got BEATDOWN in MMA...


Still don’t see why everyone is making a big deal of this?


What does everyone expect? 15 minutes of high fives and hugs?


<{titihmm}>
 
I have taken a few days to think about this thoroughly before posting and I rarely make threads unless it is something I feel very strongly about and the co-main at Belem certainly warrants it.

Watching the entire fight, and more importantly the last minute of the fight, between Shevchenko and Cachoiera was fairly disturbing and I was not surprised by Dana's reaction as well as that of many fans and fighters alike. It was a brutal assault between arguably the #2 ranked 125lber and an untested, unknown, "undefeated" prospect. Not only was Shevchenko arguably the #2 ranked fighter, her last fight was a hotly contested fight for the UFC World Title where she lost by split decision, meaning at least one judge saw the fight in her favor. The reason this is important is because it was the UFC's decision to put a debuting fighter up against the #2 fighter in the entire division and that got me thinking.

Dana clearly went after Mario Yamasaki, going as far to suggest that he never ref a UFC fight again. I do think if the fight had been among the male fighters in the UFC, Dana's reaction may not have been as harsh and we all must admit, that plays a role in our emotions and reactions as well. And it is true, part of the ref's responsibility and duty to ensure the safety of the fighters inside the cage but does the UFC not have any responsibility in this?

The one thing we have ignored, and continue to ignore in the MMA, is the corner's responsibility. Often times in boxing, a corner will stop a fight before a ref will. In MMA, it's something that rarely ever occurs and if it does occur, it usually occurs in-between rounds. The corner's responsibilities and duties are to help the fighter to obtain victory AND to protect them from unnecessary damage. In MMA, we never hold the corner responsible but why is that? The coach and main cornerman are usually one and the same. The coach is the one closest to the fighter, knows the fighter best, and has the best rapport with the fighter. If the ref is not saving the fighter, why would the coach/cornerman not throw in the towel to save his fighter and let his fighter live to fight another day?

So my question is...who is MOST responsible for a fighter's safety and why?

1. The ref for not stopping it when it's clear one fighter is not defending themselves intelligently and just taking damage?

2. The Organization (Dana and co) for matching a top 3 fighter, a fighter who just fought for the title and came very close to winning it, against a debuting and untested fighter? It's absolutely irresponsible match-making at its worst.

3. The fighter's cornermen, who's sole responsibilities are to take care of their fighter and help them win?

4. The athletic commission that sanctioned the event.
 
You left out the commission and the fighter themselves.
 
U guys are biased as shit, Mario did a good job

It’s not like woman hits that hard, look at her face afterward and tell me honestly that CAIN vs JDS 2&3 isn’t worse

I will bet u a whole house JDS suffered more damage from Cains punches than that no name girl
You definitely didin't read the post. That's exactly what I said. Dana reacted the way he did because it was between two women. But still, the question still stands, where does the responsibility stand?

You left out the commission and the fighter themselves.
A fighter who isn't knocked out rarely taps and yes, the fighter holds some responsibility as well but in the middle of a fight, most fighters believe they will get through it and if they can get through it, they will have a chance to win. Hence the saying, someone needs to save the fighter from themselves. In boxing, it can be the ref or the corner. In MMA and in UFC, you rarely ever see a corner stoppage.

The last towel thrown I can recall was by Nate Diaz's corner, Nick actually threw in the towel to save his brother
 
You definitely didin't read the post. That's exactly what I said. Dana reacted the way he did because it was between two women. But still, the question still stands, where does the responsibility stand?
There’s no responsibilities, it’s a fight, people suppose to get hurt! Ban MMA as a whole or stop being so sensitive...
 
I have taken a few days to think about this thoroughly before posting and I rarely make threads unless it is something I feel very strongly about and the co-main at Belem certainly warrants it.

Watching the entire fight, and more importantly the last minute of the fight, between Shevchenko and Cachoiera was fairly disturbing and I was not surprised by Dana's reaction as well as that of many fans and fighters alike. It was a brutal assault between arguably the #2 ranked 125lber and an untested, unknown, "undefeated" prospect. Not only was Shevchenko arguably the #2 ranked fighter, her last fight was a hotly contested fight for the UFC World Title where she lost by split decision, meaning at least one judge saw the fight in her favor. The reason this is important is because it was the UFC's decision to put a debuting fighter up against the #2 fighter in the entire division and that got me thinking.

Dana clearly went after Mario Yamasaki, going as far to suggest that he never ref a UFC fight again. I do think if the fight had been among the male fighters in the UFC, Dana's reaction may not have been as harsh and we all must admit, that plays a role in our emotions and reactions as well. And it is true, part of the ref's responsibility and duty to ensure the safety of the fighters inside the cage but does the UFC not have any responsibility in this?

The one thing we have ignored, and continue to ignore in the MMA, is the corner's responsibility. Often times in boxing, a corner will stop a fight before a ref will. In MMA, it's something that rarely ever occurs and if it does occur, it usually occurs in-between rounds. The corner's responsibilities and duties are to help the fighter to obtain victory AND to protect them from unnecessary damage. In MMA, we never hold the corner responsible but why is that? The coach and main cornerman are usually one and the same. The coach is the one closest to the fighter, knows the fighter best, and has the best rapport with the fighter. If the ref is not saving the fighter, why would the coach/cornerman not throw in the towel to save his fighter and let his fighter live to fight another day? The last time I can recall a towel being thrown DURING the fight would be by Nate Diaz's corner.

So my question is...who is MOST responsible for a fighter's safety and why?

1. The ref for not stopping it when it's clear one fighter is not defending themselves intelligently and just taking damage?

2. The Organization (Dana and co) for matching a top 3 fighter, a fighter who just fought for the title and came very close to winning it, against a debuting and untested fighter? It's absolutely irresponsible match-making at its worst.

3. The fighter's cornermen, who's sole responsibilities are to take care of their fighter and help them win?
The fighter themself, then their corner, then the ref, then the organization IMO.
 
Did anyone catch the hair pulling during the beatdown? Ol’ Cracky pulled Schevchenkos hair trying to escape that thumping. At one point it looked like Shevchenko grew frustrated with it and yanked back and landed a few more hard shots. She didn’t do it again after that.
 
The fighter themself, then their corner, then the ref, then the organization IMO.
The fighter, I feel, will always think they have a chance if they can just get out (assuming it's not a submission) hence we've seen many fighters knocked out on their feet and they will wrestle with the ref not knowing the fight has been stopped.

Personally, I feel the corner holds the most responsibility because it is their fighter and you cannot always wait for someone else to protect your fighter. With that said, Priscila's corner said they were going to let her die in the cage and it's not their job to protect their fighter...
 
I have taken a few days to think about this thoroughly before posting and I rarely make threads unless it is something I feel very strongly about and the co-main at Belem certainly warrants it.

Watching the entire fight, and more importantly the last minute of the fight, between Shevchenko and Cachoiera was fairly disturbing and I was not surprised by Dana's reaction as well as that of many fans and fighters alike. It was a brutal assault between arguably the #2 ranked 125lber and an untested, unknown, "undefeated" prospect. Not only was Shevchenko arguably the #2 ranked fighter, her last fight was a hotly contested fight for the UFC World Title where she lost by split decision, meaning at least one judge saw the fight in her favor. The reason this is important is because it was the UFC's decision to put a debuting fighter up against the #2 fighter in the entire division and that got me thinking.

Dana clearly went after Mario Yamasaki, going as far to suggest that he never ref a UFC fight again. I do think if the fight had been among the male fighters in the UFC, Dana's reaction may not have been as harsh and we all must admit, that plays a role in our emotions and reactions as well. And it is true, part of the ref's responsibility and duty to ensure the safety of the fighters inside the cage but does the UFC not have any responsibility in this?

The one thing we have ignored, and continue to ignore in the MMA, is the corner's responsibility. Often times in boxing, a corner will stop a fight before a ref will. In MMA, it's something that rarely ever occurs and if it does occur, it usually occurs in-between rounds. The corner's responsibilities and duties are to help the fighter to obtain victory AND to protect them from unnecessary damage. In MMA, we never hold the corner responsible but why is that? The coach and main cornerman are usually one and the same. The coach is the one closest to the fighter, knows the fighter best, and has the best rapport with the fighter. If the ref is not saving the fighter, why would the coach/cornerman not throw in the towel to save his fighter and let his fighter live to fight another day? The last time I can recall a towel being thrown DURING the fight would be by Nate Diaz's corner.

So my question is...who is MOST responsible for a fighter's safety and why?

1. The ref for not stopping it when it's clear one fighter is not defending themselves intelligently and just taking damage?

2. The Organization (Dana and co) for matching a top 3 fighter, a fighter who just fought for the title and came very close to winning it, against a debuting and untested fighter? It's absolutely irresponsible match-making at its worst.

3. The fighter's cornermen, who's sole responsibilities are to take care of their fighter and help them win?

Very nicely worded. I agree that the matchmaking was questionable, but not as outrageous as putting a debuting Toney against Randy Couture. Yamasaki did an awful job.

However, in this case, I place the most blame on her corner - you can hear her telling them after round 1 that her knee is messed up, and they ignore her. After the fight, her so-called coach is still adamant that he would not stop the fight under any circumstances:

““We never thought about quitting and we never will,” Parana said. “It’s not part of our way of doing things. The ref is there to stop it, and if he doesn’t, we won’t be the ones doing it.”

(From http://mmajunkie.com/2018/02/priscila-cachoeira-surgery-acl-meniscus-tears-valentina-shevchenko )
 
Two willing adults signed a contract to fight, the end.
 
You definitely didin't read the post. That's exactly what I said. Dana reacted the way he did because it was between two women. But still, the question still stands, where does the responsibility stand?


A fighter who isn't knocked out rarely taps and yes, the fighter holds some responsibility as well but in the middle of a fight, most fighters believe they will get through it and if they can get through it, they will have a chance to win. Hence the saying, someone needs to save the fighter from themselves. In boxing, it can be the ref or the corner. In MMA and in UFC, you rarely ever see a corner stoppage.

The last towel thrown I can recall was by Nate Diaz's corner, Nick actually threw in the towel to save his brother
Corners in MMA rarely save their fighters yep.

The corner should bare the loss and let their fighter fight for another day.

Wittman tried to stop a fight with Marquardt. Officials said he wasn't allowed to stop the fight. When the round ended Nate said he was done and Wittman agreed calling the fight for him.
 
Very nicely worded. I agree that the matchmaking was questionable, but not as outrageous as putting a debuting Toney against Randy Couture. Yamasaki did an awful job.

However, in this case, I place the most blame on her corner - you can hear her telling them after round 1 that her knee is messed up, and they ignore her. After the fight, her so-called coach is still adamant that he would not stop the fight under any circumstances:

““We never thought about quitting and we never will,” Parana said. “It’s not part of our way of doing things. The ref is there to stop it, and if he doesn’t, we won’t be the ones doing it.”

(From http://mmajunkie.com/2018/02/priscila-cachoeira-surgery-acl-meniscus-tears-valentina-shevchenko )
I'm with you on this. Unlike the ref, the doctor, and the rest of the world, the corner knows exactly what is going on. When a fighter is hurt, injured, the corner is usually the first to know. It's the corner's fighter and if the ref isn't doing their job, I feel, the corner has to step in and protect their fighter.
 
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