Fedor strengths and weaknesses and his skillset in the UFC today (Long Thread)

[BFoe]

Either way you're making excuses for your favorite losing. He's not the only fighter to accumulate damage and/or injuries. Every single fighter ever has accumulated damage and injuries, including his opponents. Fedro took very little damage in his career up until that point. Compared to most HWs, that is.

I'm correcting a narrative. He wasn't past his prime.

“Correcting a narrative”
You’re splitting hairs over verbiage. It’s well documented that Fedor suffered all sorts of injuries over time that “prevented him from competing at his physical best” if you like.

First broke his hand in the Goodridge fight, and also had some kind of surgery before the Zulu fight
https://www.mmaweekly.com/update-on-fedors-injury
Broken hand again before the Cro Cop fight
https://www.mmaweekly.com/fedor-talks-injury-and-future

This article claimed broken toe would cause him to be pulled from the Hunt fight (he fought anyway)
https://www.mmanews.com/2006/12/fedor-off-pride-shockwave-more-on-crocop/

Broken hand again during the Sylvia fight
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2008/08/inside-mma-preview-more-on-fedor-emelianenkos-hand-injury

Hand and nose in the Brett Rogers fight
https://www.espn.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=4634640

Injured hand again in training before the Werdum fight
https://www.lowkickmma.com/Rumor-Fe...-training-could-be-sidelined-for-months-6902/

In this article before his return in 2015, Fedor says “Compared with what it was like three years ago, I recovered from all injuries," Emelianenko told Rizinff.com (via Bloody Elbow). "I was able to receive medical treatment for injuries that bothered me. You can decide after my fight [if I am better now].”

I could go on and on with this shit (we know his knees are fucked too), but you get the idea. And I know full well that his opponents took damage and had injuries—Herring, Nog, and Cro Cop weren’t exactly the same fighters in 2010-2011 either.

There’s plenty of documentation on Fedor having injuries, it’s not making excuses. Making excuses would be like if I continued to pretend, against all evidence, that every single fight in Japan was fixed so that I didn’t have to face the fact that Anderson Silva got handled by Takase and tapped by Chonan. Nahmean?

 

[Lee_]

You're talking about peak individual performance, not physical prime, and that seems to be the biggest factor around here. People struggle to separate the two.

The age range does change a bit for different sports, yes. MMA is an endurance sport. Endurance athletes tend to peak in their early to mid 30s. Sprinters and ball players tend to peak earlier because they have less bone density and muscle mass.

A man's physical prime is when their muscle strength, muscle mass, bone density, speed, cardio, and reflexes are at their highest and most efficient points. This is between the ages of 28-35 in 90+% of men on earth. The number, iirc, is closer to 95 or 96%.

Sprinters and ball players actually do not have less bone density and muscle mass, I don't know where that comes from. You don't really think speed and reflexes peak at that time do you? That is pretty far-fetched. There is very mild truth to what you are saying here in that body builders and power lifters can peak at that age, but that is not what you are saying here, you are generalizing it, which is pretty laughable. Tell me one very physical sport where players peak at 35 that doesn't involve weightlifting with examples. I already have given you multiple examples, so lets see yours.

 

[Deleted member 504083]

@Fioretti @ServantofGOD @TJ177 getting butchered ITT

 

[TJ177]

@Fioretti @ServantofGOD @TJ177 getting butchered itt

I'm loving this honestly. The utterly deranged beliefs in this thread are a joy to read. People truly believing that peak HW MMA performance was achieved only during a 5 year stretch by a doughy 230 pounder in the infancy of the sport. Never to be duplicated. The undisputed fastest HW who ever lived, who couldn't even outrun father time at the age of 30.

 

[Can’t Handle My Riddum]

I'm loving this honestly. The utterly deranged beliefs in this thread are a joy to read. People truly believing that peak HW MMA performance was achieved only during a 5 year stretch by a doughy 230 pounder in the infancy of the sport. Never to be duplicated. The undisputed fastest HW who ever lived, who couldn't even outrun father time at the age of 30.

You’re hurting people and causing meltdowns. Love it.

 

[Fioretti]

What does age matter then? Werdum prime was 33-36. He wasn't a 25 year old stud but so what? He had his best years outside his physical prime

Glover won the title near 40. Randy couture was champ around 40 too. Was 25 year old glover better than 40nyear old glover?

Brother, you're once again trying to make personal bests equate to physical prime. They're different. However, your example of Werdum being at his personal best between 33-36 helps my point, not yours.

“Correcting a narrative”
You’re splitting hairs over verbiage. It’s well documented that Fedor suffered all sorts of injuries over time that “prevented him from competing at his physical best” if you like.

First broke his hand in the Goodridge fight, and also had some kind of surgery before the Zulu fight
https://www.mmaweekly.com/update-on-fedors-injury
Broken hand again before the Cro Cop fight
https://www.mmaweekly.com/fedor-talks-injury-and-future

This article claimed broken toe would cause him to be pulled from the Hunt fight (he fought anyway)
https://www.mmanews.com/2006/12/fedor-off-pride-shockwave-more-on-crocop/

Broken hand again during the Sylvia fight
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2008/08/inside-mma-preview-more-on-fedor-emelianenkos-hand-injury

Hand and nose in the Brett Rogers fight
https://www.espn.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=4634640

Injured hand again in training before the Werdum fight
https://www.lowkickmma.com/Rumor-Fe...-training-could-be-sidelined-for-months-6902/

In this article before his return in 2015, Fedor says “Compared with what it was like three years ago, I recovered from all injuries," Emelianenko told Rizinff.com (via Bloody Elbow). "I was able to receive medical treatment for injuries that bothered me. You can decide after my fight [if I am better now].”

I could go on and on with this shit (we know his knees are fucked too), but you get the idea. And I know full well that his opponents took damage and had injuries—Herring, Nog, and Cro Cop weren’t exactly the same fighters in 2010-2011 either.

There’s plenty of documentation on Fedor having injuries, it’s not making excuses. Making excuses would be like if I continued to pretend, against all evidence, that every single fight in Japan was fixed so that I didn’t have to face the fact that Anderson Silva got handled by Takase and tapped by Chonan. Nahmean?

So only 2 out of 6 injuries caused him to be forced out of his physical prime and lose? Another example of someone thinking personal best equates to prime. It doesn't.

Sprinters and ball players actually do not have less bone density and muscle mass, I don't know where that comes from. You don't really think speed and reflexes peak at that time do you? That is pretty far-fetched. There is very mild truth to what you are saying here in that body builders and power lifters can peak at that age, but that is not what you are saying here, you are generalizing it, which is pretty laughable. Tell me one very physical sport where players peak at 35 that doesn't involve weightlifting with examples. I already have given you multiple examples, so lets see yours.

Oh, look, another guy thinking personal best/peak equates to prime. Muscle mass, muscle density, and bone mass peaks in males in their early to mid 30s. Muscle strength peaks at around 25 and plateaus (in most) until late 40s and sometimes until 50. Endurance athletes peak in their early to mid 30s, drop off around 37, and can show improvements after that in their early 40s. MMA is an endurance sport. Oops!

Sprinters tend to peak earlier for obvious reasons that I've previously stated.

You guys know I've done threads on the average age for every UFC champ in history for every division, right? I also have a thread for the average age of current MMA champions. Can you guess without looking?

Once again, though, for those in the back: peak individual performance or personal bests are different than physical prime. Try to understand, boys. Read slowly. Look it up maybe?

 

[TheNinja]

Body composition matters.

The Stipes, Werdums are 245lbs solid athletic. Most versions of Fedor minus a few fights he is 233lbs... But their compositions are different. You guys have a lot of excuses

Apparently I cannot use Fedors appearance or weigh ins from 2008 till now as proof or pre 2004. You want to focus on a narrow time period where he was the largest

You are actually making my point stronger. Fedor is often considered by most experts and figthers to be the GOAT. You are constantly going on about these new huge HWs would just dominate guys like Fedor.

If you are saying he's only 233 that makes it even more obvious that size doesn't matter as much as speed and skill. The kings of HW have always been 240ish give or take a few.

I honestly think you should just go watch some of his fights or a 30 minute highlight of him. His speed and power and skill is amazing.

 

[Midget Boxer]

Brother, you're once again trying to make personal bests equate to physical prime.

What age is physical prime? 27-35? Anyone can decline there

 

[Fioretti]

What age is physical prime? 27-35? Anyone can decline there

The physical declines from age typically don't happen until after 35. "Out of prime" is a reference to declines due to age.

 

[TJ177]

You’re hurting people and causing meltdowns. Love it.

The most bewildering thing on these types of threads is that I always disclaim that Fedor was one of my favorite fighters to watch and that a 10 year undefeated win streak means his resume marks him as the top heavyweight of all time.

And Pride will ALWAYS be my favorite promotion. Because part of it was how primitive it all was. Most of the guys had no idea what they were doing and most fighters were in awful shape and would gas 5 minutes into the fights. People would swing wildly (ex. Fedor's looping hooks) and many fighters would get caught in basic arm bars that 8 year olds learn to avoid in white belt BJJ class. It's hilarious. I won't ever stop loving Pride, but I enjoy it for what it was. A glorious spectacle (run by pro wrestling guys) in the earliest era of MMA where very few fighters knew what they were doing.

 

[Midget Boxer]

The physical declines from age typically don't happen until after 35. "Out of prime" is a reference to declines due to age.

What about due to motivation or confidence issues. Rather than getting old

Fighters aren't robots lol

 

[Fioretti]

What about due to motivation or confidence issues. Rather than getting old

Fighters aren't robots lol

Would be more accurate if true, for sure. So would having to take a shit mid fight. That will hinder or alter performance, but it doesn't end your prime.

 

[Midget Boxer]

Would be more accurate if true, for sure. So would having to take a shit mid fight. That will hinder or alter performance, but it doesn't end your prime.

What if taking a shit or being lazy declines your skill level? That's your "prime" ending

 

[JarlSkuld]

I'm loving this honestly. The utterly deranged beliefs in this thread are a joy to read. People truly believing that peak HW MMA performance was achieved only during a 5 year stretch by a doughy 230 pounder in the infancy of the sport. Never to be duplicated. The undisputed fastest HW who ever lived, who couldn't even outrun father time at the age of 30.

This is one of the most intelligent replies I've ever seen in a Fedor thread. I mean, plenty of chud-opinions BECAUSE it's a Fedor thread, but still...great response.

Jarl

 

[Prefect]

I think that people generally forget what made Fedor special. He had synergy between attacks that allowed him to chain concepts. I think some of that is sambo and some of that is Fedor's own doing. There isn't anything nowdays that Fedor would be the best at but he took a bunch of things that he was good at and applied them with synergy.

 

[Fioretti]

What if taking a shit or being lazy declines your skill level? That's your "prime" ending

False. Do you even want to be a fucking fighter?

 

[Hog-train]

I'm loving this honestly. The utterly deranged beliefs in this thread are a joy to read. People truly believing that peak HW MMA performance was achieved only during a 5 year stretch by a doughy 230 pounder in the infancy of the sport. Never to be duplicated. The undisputed fastest HW who ever lived, who couldn't even outrun father time at the age of 30.

This is completely irrelevant. There were tons of "doughy" heavyweights that were really great fighters - Cain, DC, Hunt, Roy Nelson, etc.

And we are judging by the eye test - Fedor was fast, explosive, and skilled. Anyone with eyes can see it. I can't think of one HW that had his hand speed and also great transitions like him.

 

[ryun253]

He still my boy!

 

[Sweater of AV]

GOAT.

 

[BrockLesnarsTurtleBack]

The physical declines from age typically don't happen until after 35. "Out of prime" is a reference to declines due to age.

The median age for setting a world record in olympics is 26.1, younger than when you claim athletic prime starts.