Fedor in ADCC??

[knoxpk]

thanks! I hug nuts proudly.

btw, I can't stand patriotism, flag-waving and anthem singing bullshit (in ANY country or ANY nation)
Fedor is my favorite fighter because he is a great fighter, I couldn't give 2 shits whether he's from Alaska or Arizona.
That's why I'm actually NOT friends with Fedor's site people. They are blind nuthuggers! They claim that fedor OWNED Crocop standing, and other pathetic shit. I'm a REAL fan, not a moron fan.


:icon_chee

 

[kusokidiota**]

Yea Sambo grappling is average at best.

Fedor wins because he is fedor.

well, perhaps

Sambo has been isolated from competition for a while due to iron Curtain in Soviet Union (that tends to stoll the development of a style), but they have laid the foundation for effective system non the less in Rukopashnii Boi and Sambo Championships.
Also, Sambo is made to adjust; Other arts, especially Judo influences and changes Sambo everyday.

So, while sambo doesn't have the huge commercial success of bjj due to marketing and stiff competition that improved bjj a lot, it's still a legit system.

Fedor would throw a fit if you called Sambo average. he and the rest of the team consider Sambo to be equal or better than bjj even in the guard!

 

[knoxpk]

Kusok, I wnat to give this one more shot.
No insults, just logic:

IMO, Fedors greatest strength is his versatility and his transitioning.
That means with his strikes in as well.

No doubt he is extremely talented in grappling but I dont think a straight grappling match in a sport with MUCH different rules is suitable for Fedor.

I am going to back my opinions with what FACTS I can find.

I have discovered that Fedor was a multi-time champ is COMBAT SAMBO, If I am NOT mistaken comabt Sambo includes punches and kicks etc..

There is no dispute that Fedor is on HIS game with this allowed.

Now I have also discovered that Fedor is/was a very highly ranked Russian Judoka but I cannot find any evidense of him even being the best in Russia, let alone the world.

Judo
-Moscow International Tournament 100 kg weight 3rd place (January 24, 1999)
-A-Tournament Sofia 100 kg weight 3rd place (February 7, 1999)
-Russian Championships Kstovo (absolute division) 3rd place (December 5, 1999 according to JudoInside[12]; 1998 according to Fedor's official website[13])
-Dutch Grand Prix Rotterdam 100 kg weight - 7th place (April 1, 2000)

Sambo

-Russian Combat Sambo Champion (Moscow championship, 2002)
-World Combat Sambo Champion (heavyweight division) (Saloniki, Greece, 2002)
-World Combat Sambo Champion (absolute division) (Panama, 2002)
-World Combat Sambo Champion (heavyweight division) (Prague, Czech Republic, 2005)

With his skill sets now he can go in and do ok, I think. But I think it would take a good year of Sub grappling specific training for him to even hae a shot.

ground fighting for MMA and ground fighting for sub grappling are very different and I "think" you are basing your opinion on Fedors chances on watching MMA.
I have not seen Fedor just straight grapple on video but if you have then obviously you know something we dont. If you have some video of him grappling in a grappling comp share with the class.

 

[kusokidiota**]

Kusok, I wnat to give this one more shot.
No insults, just logic:

IMO, Fedors greatest strength is his versatility and his transitioning.
That means with his strikes in as well.

No doubt he is extremely talented in grappling but I dont think a straight grappling match in a sport with MUCH different rules is suitable for Fedor.

I am going to back my opinions with what FACTS I can find.

I have discovered that Fedor was a multi-time champ is COMBAT SAMBO, If I am NOT mistaken comabt Sambo includes punches and kicks etc..

There is no dispute that Fedor is on HIS game with this allowed.

Now I have also discovered that Fedor is/was a very highly ranked Russian Judoka but I cannot find any evidense of him even being the best in Russia, let alone the world.


With his skill sets now he can go in and do ok, I think. But I think it would take a good year of Sub grappling specific training for him to even hae a shot.

ground fighting for MMA and ground fighting for sub grappling are very different and I "think" you are basing your opinion on Fedors chances on watching MMA.
I have not seen Fedor just straight grapple on video but if you have then obviously you know something we dont. If you have some video of him grappling in a grappling comp share with the class.

you got it!



fedor is a world class judoka according to Mikhailin who has said this along with countless other compliments to fedor's grappling in a recent interview (I provided a link on earlier pages) he talks about how fedor trained with him regularly and that fedor IS HIS EQUAL IN JUDO! Mikhailin shortly after that bacame a 3-time World Judo Champion, while Fedor left Judo because of political reasons and went into MMA and Sambo full time.


Fedor won a European Kubok (cup) in judo (I provided a link to a video of that being said as well)


NOT EVEN 50% of stuff is on Wiki about ANY fighter. Wiki is NOTHING. Don't bother reading it at all.

fedor has countless World and National SPORT Sambo titles (no strikes)


finally here is a vid of him vs. his brother in Sport sambo finals a long time ago. 2 world champs in Sport Sambo going at it:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=R573D0bCx5w






p.s. notice also that in the latest fedor fight he didn't throw a single strike at Lindland (who himself threw like 1 punch) and fedor tapped him in 2 minutes. a LOT faster and easier than werdum did.

 

[knoxpk]

Ok but here is something odd.

I am actually on the Official world sambo site and it in fact shows the top placers in combat sambo and sport sambo

Obviously (2005 or 2006) he won the combat sambo championship but did not place in the sport sambo championship. I have to assume he did not compete. In fact I cannot find any evidence he competed in sport sambo at all.

Although I am sure he has.

As for Judo, certainly the word of a champion is considerable but you have to measure that against results as well dont you?

Think of some things for a second.
Fedor IS a very talented juodka BUT he was training with Mikhailin which creates 2 things.
One a different atmosphere when they DO spar each other. They are not opponents they are training partners.
Also you get a good idea of your team mates game.
If they are training with each other , each grappler begins to learn and adapt to the others game when they do spar. Of course your partner will be tough for you. They should be. They know what you know, you know what they know.

However the results of Fedors contests ARE impressive but not overwhelming.

 

[SammerX]

Anyone know why Fedor hasn't tested his sambo skills in the ADCC? The money isn't enough or has he been busy with other activities during this time?

How would he fare?

Fedors already part of 2 big MMA shows... He has plenty of fights. And secondly because Fedors managers have not signed him up for them. Fedor has said in interviews that fighting is a job for him and that he just goes where his managers put him.

 

[kusokidiota**]

Ok but here is something odd.

I am actually on the Official world sambo site and it in fact shows the top placers in combat sambo and sport sambo

Obviously (2005 or 2006) he won the combat sambo championship but did not place in the sport sambo championship. I have to assume he did not compete. In fact I cannot find any evidence he competed in sport sambo at all.

Although I am sure he has.

As for Judo, certainly the word of a champion is considerable but you have to measure that against results as well dont you?

Think of some things for a second.
Fedor IS a very talented juodka BUT he was training with Mikhailin which creates 2 things.
One a different atmosphere when they DO spar each other. They are not opponents they are training partners.
Also you get a good idea of your team mates game.
If they are training with each other , each grappler begins to learn and adapt to the others game when they do spar. Of course your partner will be tough for you. They should be. They know what you know, you know what they know.

However the results of Fedors contests ARE impressive but not overwhelming.

Did you like the old Sport Sambo vid against Aleks? What did you think?

 

[Yojimbo]

Did you like the old Sport Sambo vid against Aleks? What did you think?

Is Aleks a world class grappler too?

 

[knoxpk]

Did you like the old Sport Sambo vid against Aleks? What did you think?

1st they both made thier scoring techs look so easy I thought it was a demo..


I tell you this , Fi aleks wouldnt have follwed him after that throw Fedor loses the match. According to rules of Sambo a Major throw whcih lands your opponent on the mat and leaves u standing ends the match. Like Ippon.
But the fact that they went to the mat allowed Fedor to reverse the pin and sub.

Which he did with ease I might add.

as the prior pster asked is Aleks world class too?

I would LOVE to see more of him grappling.

 

[Yojimbo]

haha I love that pic

 

[kusokidiota**]

Is Aleks a world class grappler too?

he's blowing major cuck right now in grappling he was a World Sambo Champion at one point thou..... hopefully he'll be back! A disasterous performance vs. Werdum recently, he didn't grapple at ALL during the preperation, thou fedor heavily argued with him to do so because Werdum IS awesome at grappling. and the result was a loss for Aleks
Right now he is not a world class grappler at all

 

[kusokidiota**]

1st they both made thier scoring techs look so easy I thought it was a demo..


I tell you this , Fi aleks wouldnt have follwed him after that throw Fedor loses the match. According to rules of Sambo a Major throw whcih lands your opponent on the mat and leaves u standing ends the match. Like Ippon.
But the fact that they went to the mat allowed Fedor to reverse the pin and sub.

Which he did with ease I might add.

as the prior pster asked is Aleks world class too?

I would LOVE to see more of him grappling.

better check the video and Sambo rules again, it was NOT a "total" throw and does NOT win the match.


chienkweih,


p.s. fedor took part in plenty of Sport Sambo tournaments and NEVER lost. this is according to his Official Website where I just asked this last week to be sure about SPORT Sambo on fedor's resume.

 

[knoxpk]

better check the video and Sambo rules again, it was NOT a "total" throw and does NOT win the match.

I said as much. I said IF he had not followed him down it would have been a total throw, but as it was He DID follow him down which eliminates the total throw. A total throw lands the man squarely on his back BUT the thrower has to remain standing.


From Igor Yakimovs site

SCORING IN SPORT SAMBO:

1. Hold Down: (Immobilization or Predicament) - Similar to a judo hold down or a long wrestling near fall. One sportsman must hold the back of the other sportsman toward the mat in a danger position (less than 90 degrees), with chest, side or back in unbroken contact with the chest of the opponent to score. A hold down is "broken" when contact between the athletes is broken when space is created between them, or the defending athlete turns over to the stomach or the side with an angle greater than 90 degrees. A Hold down may only be scored once in a match and will earn either 2 points for a ten second hold down or 4 points for a twenty second hold down. Once a hold down is scored, a sportsman cannot attempt another.

2. Submission Hold: A pressure hold (arm or leg lock) applied ot the arm or leg of the opponent which makes the opponent surrender or submit by calling out or by tapping the mat at least twice. Submission holds cannot be applied in standing position. A submission hold ends the match.

3. Throw: A throw is scored anytime one sportsman takes another to the mat in a single, continuous and uninterrupted action. A Sambo throw is more than a simple wrestling takedown, however. Like a judo or Greco-Roman throw, it must start with both sportsmen on their feet, one sportsmen must unbalance the other and take the opponent directly to the mat with one action without stopping. A throw must knock the defender off their feet either by lifting or tripping them, not merely dragging them down. A throw is scored based on two factors: How the thrown athlete lands and whether the thrower remains standing (scoring twice as many points if remaining standing). A Perfect Throw results in Total Victory and stops the match when a sportsman throws the other to his back while remaining standing. Other throws will score 4 points, 2 points, or 1 point, depending on the impact point of the thrown athlete.

So I was aware it was not a perfect throw.
Also read the rules concerning a pin.
No where in that passage does it mention there is no pin if the man has entangled his legs around you(guard).
In other words, if I am reading the rules correctly you CAN pin from inside the guard, although pins do not end the match.

This is a very important point to remember since you can score INSIDE the guard with a pin there was not much need to practice guard passing so to speak.

 

[kusokidiota**]

I said as much. I said IF he had not followed him down it would have been a total throw, but as it was He DID follow him down which eliminates the total throw. A total throw lands the man squarely on his back BUT the thrower has to remain standing.


From Igor Yakimovs site

SCORING IN SPORT SAMBO:



So I was aware it was not a perfect throw.
Also read the rules concerning a pin.
No where in that passage does it mention there is no pin if the man has entangled his legs around you(guard).
In other words, if I am reading the rules correctly you CAN pin from inside the guard, although pins do not end the match.

This is a very important point to remember since you can score INSIDE the guard with a pin there was not much need to practice guard passing so to speak.

1)
I know that many of you are delighted that this thread is back. My pleasure. I love you also!

2)
knoxpk. Ok, so? a little rules this way, a little rule that way, why again can't Fedor adjust to adcc? I'm still unclear.

3)
adcc and UFC were started to demonstrate bjj's "superiority". It's a commercial greed driven compaign! You got bjj brown belt who won "grappler's quest" LOL winning adcc title, there goes bjj's "superiority".
bjj is NOT THE ONLY WAY TO WIN A GRAPPLING MATCH.

4)
kids that claim fedor would get subbed in adcc and has no chance to win it < my dog


good day

 

[BAMF]

Alright you said hunt never had fedor in trouble correct. The only reason why is because hunt has only trained the ground game for like a year and applied the submission wrong if you replace him with an adcc level grappler fedor is subbed its that simple my friend.

 

[kusokidiota**]

Alright you said hunt never had fedor in trouble correct. The only reason why is because hunt has only trained the ground game for like a year and applied the submission wrong if you replace him with an adcc level grappler fedor is subbed its that simple my friend.

??? what makes you think fedor would get INTO that position with an elite grappler?

it's like saying that fedor would lose to Hunt in UFC because Hunt had his forearm on Fedor's neck the entire time holding him down, and in UFC he could have blasted him with those elbows. Guess what? In UFC Fedor would not allow Hunt to have that position, because fedor would know elbows are allowed.


get it?


p.s. What makes you think that anyone else would tap fedor with that Americana? Fedor never taps to that move in training, EVER, regardless of who is doing it. And he has $$$ to hire ANY grappler he feels like to train with. If fedor felt the need he'd have Marcello living in his Red Devil gym.
He just doesn't consider that to be neccesary.

 

[Q mystic]

Sorry for the retread...

I feel bad for this fella that started this thread.

Us grapplers slayed him and now after thinking about it I think he was the right one.

I was guilty of chalking up that Fedor was judo/sambo and would get beaten but I changed my mind.

Fedor might not be a sub specialist when it comes to adcc fights but he certainly is a sub defence specialist for them. He is nowhere near the judo/sambo based fighter we 'see' in mma. He is a very well rounded defensive fighter for all else that can be used...from the Nogs and Barnett types as well. He 'trains' for adcc types.

At the risk of 'slay', let me say that I do think Fedor would win in adcc.

His sub game isn't wide but it is strong. He did sub Coleman from back.

 

[georgejjr]

Things too quiet Q, feel a need to stir them up?

 

[Q mystic]

Things too quiet Q, feel a need to stir them up?

Actually george, I start at an mma/bjj club next monday. I think I'm pretty nervous after checking it out.

Any good advice for a 5 year lay off(heavy tobacco, alcohol, very sedentary) fella at 38?

 

[gothlink]

sweat that shit out of your blood man.
Your judo will help you bro!