Fedor and M1 weren't wrong for wanting co-promotion with UFC

[Söze Aldo]

Yeah and it was even more than marketing value. M1 wanted 50% copromotion on everything for the second round of negotiations of the Lesnar fight. Jerry Millen said in 2009 they wanted profits split down the middle. https://bloodyelbow.com/2009/07/31/what-does-co-promoting-with-the/

That fight could have generated over 100 million easily in todays dollars and they are looking to take a 50% split of that pot after expenses. There is just no way UFC could make that fight on a logical level. They were only paying Brock a few million at the time and Brock was the biggest star in the sport and they would have had to pay M1 potentially 10 times Brocks purse in the 30+ million range in 2009 dollars which is like 45+ million today plus the free advertising of M1 like you mention. It would open up a can of worms and next thing you know Lesnar would be demanding his own company like DeathClutch co promotion rights and others would follow suite.

UFC probably could have gotten Fedor in 2007 if they pushed hard enough and let Fedor wear M1 shit but Fedor's stock rose with Affliction destroying exUFC champs and they got a taste of co promoting with Affliction and saw thats were the real money would be in.

Can someone clear up what M1 got from Strikeforce and Bellator then? Did they also have to go through this agreement to sign Fedor or did M1 only try this with the UFC?

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

Kevin Randleman weighed like 215lbs and damn near broke Fedor's neck. Fedor isn't sweeping or submitting 280lbs Brock

Randleman was a lot faster than Brock had legit KO power in his hands and had just knocked Cro Cop with a left hook. Also 45 year old Randy reversed Brock and got back up to his feet and landed punches on him. So did old ass Heath Herring who was a shell of his former self by the time he fought Brock.

I agree that Strikeforce Fedor would have struggled with Brock. That version of Fedor wasn't going to have an easy time being on his back against Brock. Pride Fedor would have beaten the shit out of Brock just like Cain did.

 

[bubbleboyjones]

Can someone clear up what M1 got from Strikeforce and Bellator then? Did they also have to go through this agreement to sign Fedor or did M1 only try this with the UFC?

They were copromoting with Strikeforce. You can see it in on the banner even. Fedor left M1 Global before signing with Bellator. They copromoted with Affliction before Strikeforce but Jerry Millen said it wasn't a "true" copromotion.

 

[HavokHarmon]

In the mid-2000s, when Pride was around and then folded and then a lot of those fighters came over to Affliction, then Strikeforce, and the UFC, Fedor was THE undisputed top name in MMA. Not just among hard-core fans, but he was the guy.

I think characterizing him as "the top HW in the last five years of whatever" pretty much drops you out of the "we" in "we are hardcore fans."

Holy shit.

Theres a difference between being recognized as the best heavyweight in the world by hardcore fans and being a guy who can move ppv buys. He just wasn’t well known like that to western audiences. Additionally in the UFC the branding is what does most of the work. In a fight between him and Lesnar the buys would be largely from Lesnar and the UFC brand with Fedor trailing far behind both. There wasn’t any sense in UFC taking on a compromotor and introducing casual fans to the idea that other mma brands existed. At best it’s a wash, at worst it actually harms the business model as a whole more than it helps for that specific fight.

 

[fzoid4454]

Theres a difference between being recognized as the best heavyweight in the world by hardcore fans and being a guy who can move ppv buys. He just wasn’t well known like that to western audiences. Additionally in the UFC the branding is what does most of the work. In a fight between him and Lesnar the buys would be largely from Lesnar and the UFC brand with Fedor trailing far behind both. There wasn’t any sense in UFC taking on a compromotor and introducing casual fans to the idea that other mma brands existed. At best it’s a wash, at worst it actually harms the business model as a whole more than it helps for that specific fight.

He absolutely, positively was well known, like that, to western audiences. That's right around when I first took an interest, first as a somewhat casual, catching up on the sport mostly because I was starting out in a martial art that used all components (kicking, striking, grappling, submission fighting), and my introduction to MMA was that Fedor was THE boss.

He was considered the GOAT of MMA fighters, and the most exciting, well-rounded, P4P fighter out there. No one else was considered in the same tier.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

i think fedor rolls thru brock. kevin randalmans wrestling credentials are on par with lesnars, and fedor tapped out randalman within a minute of fedor getting slammed. sambo is the wrestling killer in mma. nearly every world sambo champion who has stepped into MMA has became a world champion in the organizations they fought for. khabib, islam, arlovski, fedor, yaroslav amosov, vadim nemkov, vitaly minakov, these guys just dont get outgrappled that easily... Merab Dvalishvili <----sambo guy but not world champion only a silver medalist.

This argument makes no sense. Randleman has been submitted by a lot of people, so how is that a precedent for Fedor submitting Lesnar? Wrestling doesn't have submissions, so saying Randleman (who is not even the same weight class as Lesnar) has similar wrestling credentials do not mean anything - unless you are saying that it means that Brock won't be able to take Fedor down, because Kevin clearly did?

Just very weird MMA math here.

Also, every year there are a bunch of sambo world champions, so obviously a lot of them do not become the best nor even famous, and are hardly "wrestling killers". Sambo is not even a fighting style. Fedor and Khabib have close to nothing in common.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Yeah and it was even more than marketing value. M1 wanted 50% copromotion on everything for the second round of negotiations of the Lesnar fight. Jerry Millen said in 2009 they wanted profits split down the middle. https://bloodyelbow.com/2009/07/31/what-does-co-promoting-with-the/

That fight could have generated over 100 million easily in todays dollars and they are looking to take a 50% split of that pot after expenses. There is just no way UFC could make that fight on a logical level. They were only paying Brock a few million at the time and Brock was the biggest star in the sport and they would have had to pay M1 potentially 10 times Brocks purse in the 30+ million range in 2009 dollars which is like 45+ million today plus the free advertising of M1 like you mention. It would open up a can of worms and next thing you know Lesnar would be demanding his own company like DeathClutch co promotion rights and others would follow suite.

UFC probably could have gotten Fedor in 2007 if they pushed hard enough and let Fedor wear M1 shit but Fedor's stock rose with Affliction destroying exUFC champs and they got a taste of co promoting with Affliction and saw thats were the real money would be in.

I forgot about the profit sharing thing. Yeah, that's just an insane demand. Most fans do not really understand the sport beyond the fighters, so to them they just see "oh, Fedor is the best, so anything he wants he gets" - I dont think they realize how much M-1 was asking for providing so little.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

Can someone clear up what M1 got from Strikeforce and Bellator then? Did they also have to go through this agreement to sign Fedor or did M1 only try this with the UFC?

They did. They were a leech company.

What they were doing is somewhat equivalent to if LFA signed Ngannou and then demanded the UFC to co-promote PPVs in order to have Francis fight Aspinall.

 

[HavokHarmon]

He absolutely, positively was well known, like that, to western audiences. That's right around when I first took an interest, first as a somewhat casual, catching up on the sport mostly because I was starting out in a martial art that used all components (kicking, striking, grappling, submission fighting), and my introduction to MMA was that Fedor was THE boss.

He was considered the GOAT of MMA fighters, and the most exciting, well-rounded, P4P fighter out there. No one else was considered in the same tier.

You and your friends knowing who he was does not mean he was known in the mainstream. I get that that was your experience, but that just doesn’t have any bearing on what I’m saying. I had countless bar conversations or conversations with co workers about mma. 99% of people who claimed to be fans knew jack shit about anything outside of the UFC. Hell half the people I talked to thought UFC was the name of the sport. I had real actual arguments with people about this. The average level of knowledge was incredibly low. It’s better than it used to be, but man was it bad. Guys would hotly debate whether KIMBO SLICE was the greatest heavyweight in UFC history! They’d swear up and down that he was already in the UFC! There were all of two people I ever met in real life in all my dealings who had ever heard the name Fedor. The average fan just didn’t know who he was.

 

[Thick_Strong_Tight]

I keep hearing the narrative for years about how Fedor and M1 wanted too much from the UFC and the offer he received was a good one there's a lot wrong with that and I think people's bias for UFC plays a huge factor. First off M1 was the largest mma promotion in Russia that spawned many fighters over the years so they shouldn't just be dismissed as an annoyance along side UFC when it comes to negotiations, Fedor was arguably their greatest product ever and at the time was the number 1 in the world, it's crazy that Dana just though he could throw out a dollar figure and that would just be fine and dandy for M1 to just give up the greatest fighter who ever lived so UFC could just enrich themselves off of him and then when they're done just spit him out like they always did.


It's makes perfect sense for M1/Fedor to want to at least co-promote the events that he and his stable mates were featured in I think that is what any smart business man would do and find it ridiculous that people at the time and to this day think that it was crazy for them to ask to have some of their fighters signed and co-promotion after all UFC was looking to make as much as they can off of Fedor's name, M1 and Fedor's teammates should have benefitted as well in the negotiations and the co-promotions the way I remember it was just for certain events and not a long term thing where M1 owned part of UFC either way it made sense giving that the number 1 fighter in the world was in Russia at the time and was being represented by M1 the biggest promotion in Russia so why would M1 just allow that while not benefitting also Fedor's career would be under strict contract from Dana and UFC. It all came down to Dana wanted full control and all the benefits of having the number 1 fighter at the time while the other side got nothing except a few million dollars which they could have gotten elsewhere so I think the narrative is a crock of shit a and people are bias for the UFC also Fedor and his team made the right move not going there at the time.

According to DW (could be bullshit), M1 wanted ownership in the UFC itself for bring Fedor in, which of course is something no serious organization would consider to on-board one fighter at the end of his career. Fedor was a great talent but even the best fighters certainly have a shelf life, and it's usually not terribly long. Incidentally, it could be argued that co-promotion of any kind should be a non-starter because once they go down that road, it opens up the conversation of mixed promotions in perpetuity which is both bad for the UFC from a revenue perspective but also for fans that want to see the big fights happen. Boxing partially died because of this with promoters unable to come to terms with respect to revenue-split etc, and many of the best potential fights never happening.

 

[HHJ]

According to DW (could be bullshit), M1 wanted ownership in the UFC itself for bring Fedor in, which of course is something no serious organization would consider to on-board one fighter at the end of his career. Fedor was a great talent but even the best fighters certainly have a shelf life, and it's usually not terribly long. Incidentally, it could be argued that co-promotion of any kind should be a non-starter because once they go down that road, it opens up the conversation of mixed promotions in perpetuity which is both bad for the UFC from a revenue perspective but also for fans that want to see the big fights happen. Boxing partially died because of this with promoters unable to come to terms with respect to revenue-split etc, and many of the best potential fights never happening.

I personally think, in the beggining they were interested to go to the UFC, but they did not like the restrictions on the contracts, that PRIDE never enforced on him, and at that point, I think Fedor's people just bullshitted Dana for some comments he made. They figure if they keep winning , they dont need UFC, but Fedor's run on top lasted 3 or 4 more years. They were probably hoping for longer.

 

[MMACro]

lesnar prob gonna take him down, but isnt controlling him at all. you wanna just say you dont know what sambo is?? fedor isnt subbing him? if frank mir can sub lesnar, fedor most def could...

Ok i'll play the same game
If bigfoot can control and pummel Fedor then Lesnar definitely could

 

[The XL]

"damn near" saying shit like this is pointless cause he didnt break his neck... fedor a HW world sambo champion grappled bigger guys than brock and on just as many steroids.
fedor can take a punch. brock folds into the fetal position.
lesnar prob gonna take him down, but isnt controlling him at all. you wanna just say you dont know what sambo is?? fedor isnt subbing him? if frank mir can sub lesnar, fedor most def could...

Bigfoot controlled Fedor. Lesnar would control him with ease.

 

[Myrddin Wild]

It was my understanding that Fedor wanted a piece of the whole company in order to fight.

That's a completely different subject than Fedor just wanting a larger piece of "his" fights.

 

[vintagemmafan]

According to DW (could be bullshit), M1 wanted ownership in the UFC itself for bring Fedor in, which of course is something no serious organization would consider to on-board one fighter at the end of his career. Fedor was a great talent but even the best fighters certainly have a shelf life, and it's usually not terribly long. Incidentally, it could be argued that co-promotion of any kind should be a non-starter because once they go down that road, it opens up the conversation of mixed promotions in perpetuity which is both bad for the UFC from a revenue perspective but also for fans that want to see the big fights happen. Boxing partially died because of this with promoters unable to come to terms with respect to revenue-split etc, and many of the best potential fights never happening.

I don't buy any of that, I think M1 wanted the events that Fedor headlined copromoted with UFC and I don't think there's any problem with that because that's exactly what M1 did with every organization Fedor was in whether it be SF, Affliction or Bellator no big deal and I find it funny how people immediately jump on M1 and Fedor for any request they had in the negotiation process but at the same time it's fine for Dana to say take this amount you can't compete in Sambo we basically own you, you must do all our stupid bullshit promotion stuff for UFC so we can make money and after that we'll just replace you with someone and claim you weren't that good anyways that's ridiculous.

 

[vintagemmafan]

As much as you want to believe this and maybe from Fedor/M1's perspective, it could be true, the UFC was 100% correct in not biting.

Fedor has bankrupt many Org's. Where has he fought? Rings, that is gone. Pride is gone. Affliction is gone. Strikeforce is gone. Bodog fights is gone. Hell even M1 is now officially a Farm League for the UFC.

Fedor isn't he reason those organizations went under you buffoon lol, nothing you say from here on out I give a rats ass to here you're obviously the one with a slant towards anything not UFC.

 

[vintagemmafan]

It was my understanding that Fedor wanted a piece of the whole company in order to fight.

That's a completely different subject than Fedor just wanting a larger piece of "his" fights.

Well you don't have much of an understanding if you believe something so absurd, I highly highly doubt that to be true since it never occurred in any of the other organizations where he fought so why would it this time, you guys that have to make up bullshit that doesn't fit to defend the greedy UFC and Dana in this scenario ridiculous.

 

[Deaths Head]

I keep hearing the narrative for years about how Fedor and M1 wanted too much from the UFC and the offer he received was a good one there's a lot wrong with that and I think people's bias for UFC plays a huge factor. First off M1 was the largest mma promotion in Russia that spawned many fighters over the years so they shouldn't just be dismissed as an annoyance along side UFC when it comes to negotiations, Fedor was arguably their greatest product ever and at the time was the number 1 in the world, it's crazy that Dana just though he could throw out a dollar figure and that would just be fine and dandy for M1 to just give up the greatest fighter who ever lived so UFC could just enrich themselves off of him and then when they're done just spit him out like they always did.


It's makes perfect sense for M1/Fedor to want to at least co-promote the events that he and his stable mates were featured in I think that is what any smart business man would do and find it ridiculous that people at the time and to this day think that it was crazy for them to ask to have some of their fighters signed and co-promotion after all UFC was looking to make as much as they can off of Fedor's name, M1 and Fedor's teammates should have benefitted as well in the negotiations and the co-promotions the way I remember it was just for certain events and not a long term thing where M1 owned part of UFC either way it made sense giving that the number 1 fighter in the world was in Russia at the time and was being represented by M1 the biggest promotion in Russia so why would M1 just allow that while not benefitting also Fedor's career would be under strict contract from Dana and UFC. It all came down to Dana wanted full control and all the benefits of having the number 1 fighter at the time while the other side got nothing except a few million dollars which they could have gotten elsewhere so I think the narrative is a crock of shit a and people are bias for the UFC also Fedor and his team made the right move not going there at the time.

Co promoting wasn’t a possibility with the UFC for anyone besides Pride maybe

Fedor didn’t really want the fight and fought for less and lost to Henderson in Strikeforce I believe ?

I forget what the offers were but I remember Fedor basically saying he doesn’t want the fight without saying it and using Dana’s character as the excuse.

 

[vintagemmafan]

Co promoting wasn’t a possibility with the UFC for anyone besides Pride maybe

Fedor didn’t really want the fight and fought for less and lost to Henderson in Strikeforce I believe ?

I forget what the offers were but I remember Fedor basically saying he doesn’t want the fight without saying it and using Dana’s character as the excuse.

That's complete bullshit lol ya he's afraid to fight in the UFC who had Cain, Brock etc, at the time but instead choose to fight Werdum and BF lol who are more dangerous and had he got past BF would have had to face Reem your narrative doesn't hold up at all probably because you're trying to discredit Fedor like a lot of UFC fans do.

 

[fzoid4454]

You and your friends knowing who he was does not mean he was known in the mainstream. I get that that was your experience, but that just doesn’t have any bearing on what I’m saying. I had countless bar conversations or conversations with co workers about mma. 99% of people who claimed to be fans knew jack shit about anything outside of the UFC. Hell half the people I talked to thought UFC was the name of the sport. I had real actual arguments with people about this. The average level of knowledge was incredibly low. It’s better than it used to be, but man was it bad. Guys would hotly debate whether KIMBO SLICE was the greatest heavyweight in UFC history! They’d swear up and down that he was already in the UFC! There were all of two people I ever met in real life in all my dealings who had ever heard the name Fedor. The average fan just didn’t know who he was.

WHEN? Nearly 20 years ago, when this was happening?

So, my experience is not indication of "mainstream," but yours, somehow magically is?

"I get that was your experience, but that just doesn't have any bearing on what I'm saying."

The "average fan" didn't know much about the UFC, either, when this shit was going down, as you've demonstrated.