Fedor and M1 weren't wrong for wanting co-promotion with UFC

[Deaths Head]

Dude those were the fights the fans wanted back in 2009 are you trying to say no one gave a shit back then if so you're misinformed, Dana said himself we tried negotiations multiple times THEY wanted Fedor not the other way around. UFC did miss from a business stand point they could have had the number HW at the time face their guys and imo these events would have did massive numbers people knew who Fedor was and Brock was just as popular if not more in the U.S so you'd have had those people as well it may have been the biggest the event ever, they lost out and it shows that Dana was so aggravated because the negotiations didn't pan out but he began attacking Fedor's career why because he was pissed that he couldnt get him in the UFC pretty simple to understand.

Using Dana getting mad doesn’t help your cause here in fact it shows he’s the one who went out of his way to make the fight so your contradicting yourself bc you can’t say he didn’t try to make the fight and use weird co promoting ties as a valid reason for team Fedor balking on it .

Yea Dana was pissed bc they wasted his time . Fedor continued to show very little worry or importance of going into major UFC fights instead he chose the promotion no one cared about and for no real reasons he could have easily signed a 3 fight deal but went with a very smaller promotion witha thin level of fighters ,I don’t know about you but that’s a red flag right there .

( However, one media member's mention of Fedor was enough to divert White's attention. Asked his opinion about Fedor's decision to sign with M-1 Global, the UFC's head honcho said, "Fedor sucks." )

 

[HavokHarmon]

Dude those were the fights the fans wanted back in 2009 are you trying to say no one gave a shit back then if so you're misinformed, Dana said himself we tried negotiations multiple times THEY wanted Fedor not the other way around. UFC did miss from a business stand point they could have had the number HW at the time face their guys and imo these events would have did massive numbers people knew who Fedor was and Brock was just as popular if not more in the U.S so you'd have had those people as well it may have been the biggest the event ever, they lost out and it shows that Dana was so aggravated because the negotiations didn't pan out but he began attacking Fedor's career why because he was pissed that he couldnt get him in the UFC pretty simple to understand.

I’m not saying it made no sense to sign Fedor; I’m saying it made no sense to do it at the cost of co promoting. The entire UFC business model was built in a way that was brand first. It’s not that Fedor would have made them no money; it’s that he wouldn’t have made them enough to justify such a huge move. I would have loved to have seen Fedor in the UFC. Loved it. But I think you’re either failing to understand what a huge deal co promoting would have been for the UFC or you’re massively overestimating Fedors drawing power. Probably a bit of both.

 

[vintagemmafan]

I’m not saying it made no sense to sign Fedor; I’m saying it made no sense to do it at the cost of co promoting. The entire UFC business model was built in a way that was brand first. It’s not that Fedor would have made them no money; it’s that he wouldn’t have made them enough to justify such a huge move. I would have loved to have seen Fedor in the UFC. Loved it. But I think you’re either failing to understand what a huge deal co promoting would have been for the UFC or you’re massively overestimating Fedors drawing power. Probably a bit of both.

The copromotion thing would have been exactly what it was in SF that's it and only the cards Fedor was headlining that's not a whole lot and eventually Fedor would either retire or get cut and that would be the end of it and everyone would have forgotten about M1, I don't believe for one second that M1 would dig into UFC's profits severely Dana is POS and it's really lame that the same people on here are defending all his business practices and morals yet scream about fighter pay really hypocritical he's extremely greedy charges nearly $100 per ppv at a time when no orgs are even using that model anymore all for maximum profits but go ahead support it I sure as hell won't be.

It raises another question totally unrelated to the Fedor issue and that is why no champ vs champ org vs org face off, how about tournaments or GP's why not wouldn't that be better for the fans how about PFL HW champ vs UFC HW champ, Dana is afraid of UFC losing or the image being tainted like the time he bet Pride, why no tournaments oh right because then he can't milk fighters career over several events over 5 or 6 years lame and the fans are too dumb to figure it out they just keep on sucking this clown off and claiming it's the greatest thing since sliced bread absurd.

 

[HavokHarmon]

The copromotion thing would have been exactly what it was in SF that's it and only the cards Fedor was headlining that's not a whole lot and eventually Fedor would either retire or get cut and that would be the end of it and everyone would have forgotten about M1, I don't believe for one second that M1 would dig into UFC's profits severely Dana is POS and it's really lame that the same people on here are defending all his business practices and morals yet scream about fighter pay really hypocritical he's extremely greedy charges nearly $100 per ppv at a time when no orgs are even using that model anymore all for maximum profits but go ahead support it I sure as hell won't be.

It raises another question totally unrelated to the Fedor issue and that is why no champ vs champ org vs org face off, how about tournaments or GP's why not wouldn't that be better for the fans how about PFL HW champ vs UFC HW champ, Dana is afraid of UFC losing or the image being tainted like the time he bet Pride, why no tournaments oh right because then he can't milk fighters career over several events over 5 or 6 years lame and the fans are too dumb to figure it out they just keep on sucking this clown off and claiming it's the greatest thing since sliced bread absurd.

Strikeforce wasn’t UFC. Their brand wasn’t built around being synonymous with mma. That’s why it made some amount of sense for Strikeforce to co promote. They didn’t really have anything to lose because they had no brand power to be diluted.

Have you ever stopped to wonder about why the UFC never continued on with orgs like WEC or Strikeforce after acquiring them? It’s the same reason they wouldn’t co promote; the bread and butter of the company is the brand. Introducing sister brands, as cool as it might be to more avid fans (I was a huge fan of the idea of keeping Strikeforce around for instance, and using for a combination of aging stars and new faces) it just doesn’t make business sense to intentionally create that amount of brand confusion in the consumer base.

I’m not saying it’s a good thing or that I want it that way. Just that it was and is that way. I don’t love it, I just accept it and move on.

 

[vintagemmafan]

Using Dana getting mad doesn’t help your cause here in fact it shows he’s the one who went out of his way to make the fight so your contradicting yourself bc you can’t say he didn’t try to make the fight and use weird co promoting ties as a valid reason for team Fedor balking on it .

Yea Dana was pissed bc they wasted his time . Fedor continued to show very little worry or importance of going into major UFC fights instead he chose the promotion no one cared about and for no real reasons he could have easily signed a 3 fight deal but went with a very smaller promotion witha thin level of fighters ,I don’t know about you but that’s a red flag right there .

( However, one media member's mention of Fedor was enough to divert White's attention. Asked his opinion about Fedor's decision to sign with M-1 Global, the UFC's head honcho said, "Fedor sucks." )

Fedor wasting Dana's time dude something you don't seem to get I've wrote this several times now and it's Dana pursued Fedor therefore it's on him if he couldn't get the deal done and he wasted his own time again my man you clearly have a strong bias for UFC.

You're dead wrong about no one cared about SF at the time in fact Fedor's SF fight on CBS attracted over 1.1 million viewers and often times over 500 000 so again you're way off and just making up what or how you think it was when in fact is wasn't. LOL at the thin level of fighters something else I already went over Werdum is superior to Cain and Brock and I'd say Reem was as well considering he beat Brock so you're flat out wrong about this, the SF GP had BF, Fedor , Werdum, Reem, Barnett, Kharitonov, Arlovski, Cormier ya those are thin less than what the UFC had at the same time lol.

 

[Deaths Head]

Fedor wasting Dana's time dude something you don't seem to get I've wrote this several times now and it's Dana pursued Fedor therefore it's on him if he couldn't get the deal done and he wasted his own time again my man you clearly have a strong bias for UFC.

You're dead wrong about no one cared about SF at the time in fact Fedor's SF fight on CBS attracted over 1.1 million viewers and often times over 500 000 so again you're way off and just making up what or how you think it was when in fact is wasn't. LOL at the thin level of fighters something else I already went over Werdum is superior to Cain and Brock and I'd say Reem was as well considering he beat Brock so you're flat out wrong about this, the SF GP had BF, Fedor , Werdum, Reem, Barnett, Kharitonov, Arlovski, Cormier ya those are thin less than what the UFC had at the same time lol.

Dana flew 8 hours to get the deal done while team Fedor made demands they knew weren’t going to get accepted .You then mocked White bc he was pissed as though it’s a win ? Make it make sense .

I never mentioned Strike Force so I’m not even going to entertain anything else you’ll try and take away from the main point which is what your thread is about a silly co promotion with half the revenue and more money payouts that exceeded the UFC at that time .

 

[HavokHarmon]

Using Dana getting mad doesn’t help your cause here in fact it shows he’s the one who went out of his way to make the fight so your contradicting yourself bc you can’t say he didn’t try to make the fight and use weird co promoting ties as a valid reason for team Fedor balking on it .

Yea Dana was pissed bc they wasted his time . Fedor continued to show very little worry or importance of going into major UFC fights instead he chose the promotion no one cared about and for no real reasons he could have easily signed a 3 fight deal but went with a very smaller promotion witha thin level of fighters ,I don’t know about you but that’s a red flag right there .

( However, one media member's mention of Fedor was enough to divert White's attention. Asked his opinion about Fedor's decision to sign with M-1 Global, the UFC's head honcho said, "Fedor sucks." )

Yeah I don’t think he sees the obvious contradiction here. If Dana is greedy and behaves in self serving ways to the detriment of others (I think think that’s true), then how can it also be true that he passed up making a boatload of money by refusing to co promote? If co promoting made sense from a business perspective then wouldn’t this greedy businessman have jumped at the chance to make more money? Doesn’t make sense.

 

[vintagemmafan]

Strikeforce wasn’t UFC. Their brand wasn’t built around being synonymous with mma. That’s why it made some amount of sense for Strikeforce to co promote. They didn’t really have anything to lose because they had no brand power to be diluted.

Have you ever stopped to wonder about why the UFC never continued on with orgs like WEC or Strikeforce after acquiring them? It’s the same reason they wouldn’t co promote; the bread and butter of the company is the brand. Introducing sister brands, as cool as it might be to more avid fans (I was a huge fan of the idea of keeping Strikeforce around for instance, and using for a combination of aging stars and new faces) it just doesn’t make business sense to intentionally create that amount of brand confusion in the consumer base.

I’m not saying it’s a good thing or that I want it that way. Just that it was and is that way. I don’t love it, I just accept it and move on.

UFC already had established a tv deal(Spike) and had a PPV model mainly because UFC had been around longer was one of the original og orgs, SF was a younger organization and while they did acquire a tv deal it didn't matter as UFC had more resources and could counter program their live events, leading up to that though SF was a real problem for the UFC as the numbers show they were eating into some of the profits and people were watching and talking about SF. It's not like UFC was always on top either at one time Pride was ahead of UFC for 10 years the only thing that's saved UFC is it's popularity and ppv model tv deal that's it their product was inferior to Pride, SF I watched them both at the time and know which one I preferred.

 

[Deaths Head]

Yeah I don’t think he sees the obvious contradiction here. If Dana is greedy and behaves in self serving ways to the detriment of others (I think think that’s true), then how can it also be true that he passed up making a boatload of money by refusing to co promote? If co promoting made sense from a business perspective then wouldn’t this greedy businessman have jumped at the chance to make more money? Doesn’t make sense.

The UFC”s position is maintaining its dominant market of MMA , co promoting hurts that business model if your number one and doesn’t give other promotions better standings .

Maybe now it works bc they have years and years of being number one but they don’t need it , Fedor isn’t around and really there’s no popular guy like Lesnar either .

 

[vintagemmafan]

Dana flew 8 hours to get the deal done while team Fedor made demands they knew weren’t going to get accepted .You then mocked White bc he was pissed as though it’s a win ? Make it make sense .

I never mentioned Strike Force so I’m not even going to entertain anything else you’ll try and take away from the main point which is what your thread is about a silly co promotion with half the revenue and more money payouts that exceeded the UFC at that time .

I mocked White eww big deal the guy is awful for the sport and it's growth has a monopoly snubs legends like Couture and Frank Shamrock charges $100 per ppv, pays people like shit and many others thing as well fuck that dude.

 

[vintagemmafan]

Yeah I don’t think he sees the obvious contradiction here. If Dana is greedy and behaves in self serving ways to the detriment of others (I think think that’s true), then how can it also be true that he passed up making a boatload of money by refusing to co promote? If co promoting made sense from a business perspective then wouldn’t this greedy businessman have jumped at the chance to make more money? Doesn’t make sense.

He was afraid of the idea of it but in reality had he signed Fedor it would have been short lived and he would have had mega events and the UFC would have been more popular than ever and then Fedor would either retire as he was already fading or get cut one or the other either way big money would have been made.

 

[Deaths Head]

I mocked White eww big deal the guy is awful for the sport and it's growth has a monopoly snubs legends like Couture and Frank Shamrock charges $100 per ppv, pays people like shit and many others thing as well fuck that dude.

You sound like your still in your early teens with no real logic or thought your center focuses are on white while cheering for Fedor and not actually the reasons why the fight never happened .

 

[HavokHarmon]

UFC already had established a tv deal(Spike) and had a PPV model mainly because UFC had been around longer was one of the original og orgs, SF was a younger organization and while they did acquire a tv deal it didn't matter as UFC had more resources and could counter program their live events, leading up to that though SF was a real problem for the UFC as the numbers show they were eating into some of the profits and people were watching and talking about SF. It's not like UFC was always on top either at one time Pride was ahead of UFC for 10 years the only thing that's saved UFC is it's popularity and ppv model tv deal that's it their product was inferior to Pride, SF I watched them both at the time and know which one I preferred.

I don’t know how you think this is an argument. I agree with about 99% of what you said. Only thing I’d take issue with is saying Strikeforce was a “real problem” for the UFC. They were certainly the largest rival UFC had at the time but the gap was significant. Still, the UFC did acquire them so obviously they posed SOME kind of threat so maybe this is splitting hairs. I don’t think they were THAT big of a problem for the UFC but they were certainly competition.



But all the rest of this is just you explaining WHY what I said is true, and I don’t dispute any of it lol. UFC had a stronger model and a MUCH stronger brand than Strikeforce for all the reasons you mentioned. Hence co promoting with a relatively unknown brand made sense for Strikeforce where it did not for the UFC.



The stuff about Pride is also true, UFC wasn’t always the dominant brand in mma. It made business sense for them to want to introduce fighters like Chuck to their audiences and try to compromise fights with them because Pride was in a similar spot in terms of recognizability.



Basically everything you just said supports my argument, you just seem angry that it’s true lmao

 

[vintagemmafan]

I don’t know how you think this is an argument. I agree with about 99% of what you said. Only thing I’d take issue with is saying Strikeforce was a “real problem” for the UFC. They were certainly the largest rival UFC had at the time but the gap was significant. Still, the UFC did acquire them so obviously they posed SOME kind of threat so maybe this is splitting hairs. I don’t think they were THAT big of a problem for the UFC but they were certainly competition.



But all the rest of this is just you explaining WHY what I said is true, and I don’t dispute any of it lol. UFC had a stronger model and a MUCH stronger brand than Strikeforce for all the reasons you mentioned. Hence co promoting with a relatively unknown brand made sense for Strikeforce where it did not for the UFC.



The stuff about Pride is also true, UFC wasn’t always the dominant brand in mma. It made business sense for them to want to introduce fighters like Chuck to their audiences and try to compromise fights with them because Pride was in a similar spot in terms of recognizability.



Basically everything you just said supports my argument, you just seem angry that it’s true lmao

The point I was trying to make was that SF was a huge threat and a better product the only reason UFC succeeded was for the simple fact that they had a TV deal if it wasn't for that SF could have grown the way Pride did in popularity, so it's not that I'm admitting UFC was a better product but more that they just happened to be ahead in the game by having a tv deal way before SF and had already secured a large fanbase all of that occurred simply because UFC was an older organization so it's rather that they lucked out at being around at the right time and SF was newer to the game and while they did the correct things the competitor was ahead simply by way of history and timing.

I don't think UFC at that time was a better product than SF I already named the roster for the HW's which was the most important weight class in 2010 and that time period so therefore SF was better had better fighters and had the number 1 fighter, I already know why UFC succeeded that was not my point.

 

[vintagemmafan]

You sound like your still in your early teens with no real logic or thought your center focuses are on white while cheering for Fedor and not actually the reasons why the fight never happened .

The fight never happened because White would not meet M1 and Fedor's terms and that's on White not them as they didn't care all that much to be in UFC, your take is that M1 screwed it up ah no they don't have to accept whatever bullshit offer that White throws out there and neither does UFC so they failed on securing the number 1 fighter in the world back then.

 

[HavokHarmon]

The point I was trying to make was that SF was a huge threat and a better product the only reason UFC succeeded was for the simple fact that they had a TV deal if it wasn't for that SF could have grown the way Pride did in popularity, so it's not that I'm admitting UFC was a better product but more that they just happened to be ahead in the game by having a tv deal way before SF and had already secured a large fanbase all of that occurred simply because UFC was an older organization so it's rather that they lucked out at being around at the right time and SF was newer to the game and while they did the correct things the competitor was ahead simply by way of history and timing.

I don't think UFC at that time was a better product than SF I already named the roster for the HW's which was the most important weight class in 2010 and that time period so therefore SF was better had better fighters and had the number 1 fighter, I already know why UFC succeeded that was not my point.

Whether it was a better product or not has no bearing on any part of what I’m saying. It’s a total non sequitur. The only part that’s important with respect to whether it was a good idea to co promote was brand strength. UFC had/has a very strong brand. Strikeforce did not. Regardless of the quality of their product, their brand strength was low. It makes business sense for a low strength brand to compromote. It does not make business sense for a brand as strong as the UFC to copromote. Nothing else that you’re talking about has any bearing on whether it made business sense at the time for the UFC to entertain the idea of copromoting with a relatively unknown brand.

 

[vintagemmafan]

Whether it was a better product or not has no bearing on any part of what I’m saying. It’s a total non sequitur. The only part that’s important with respect to whether it was a good idea to co promote was brand strength. UFC had/has a very strong brand. Strikeforce did not. Regardless of the quality of their product, their brand strength was low. It makes business sense for a low strength brand to compromote. It does not make business sense for a brand as strong as the UFC to copromote. Nothing else that you’re talking about has any bearing on whether it made business sense at the time for the UFC to entertain the idea of copromoting with a relatively unknown brand.

That's all fine and dandy however the thread was originally solely about how M1 and Fedor get blamed for not being signed to the UFC and it's ridiculous to expect them to just take a deal that they don't want or terms that aren't in their favor, again it was the UFC that were in the market for Fedor they didn't care if it made sense for UFC's brand to copromote or not that's what they would have had to do to secure him, I also don't care either it's a not M1 or Fedor's fault that's the main point of the entire thread who was getting the blame and it had more to do with the UFC it doesn't matter how big they are or any of that other bullshit, it would be a different story if Fedor and his team approached UFC and Dana except they didn't this fact seems lost on you. It's like if I had a rare item and you knew about it and got in contact with me and we began negotiating a deal and lets say you didn't want to pay what I was selling the item for well that's on you, I can sell it to many many other buyers and get a better price that's doesn't mean I was at fault the onus is on the buyer not the seller.

 

[BowserJr]

Fedor would've run UFC HW from 2001-2013 if they're was no m1 or pride

 

[HavokHarmon]

That's all fine and dandy however the thread was originally solely about how M1 and Fedor get blamed for not being signed to the UFC and it's ridiculous to expect them to just take a deal that they don't want or terms that aren't in their favor, again it was the UFC that were in the market for Fedor they didn't care if it made sense for UFC's brand to copromote or not that's what they would have had to do to secure him, I also don't care either it's a not M1 or Fedor's fault that's the main point of the entire thread who was getting the blame and it had more to do with the UFC it doesn't matter how big they are or any of that other bullshit, it would be a different story if Fedor and his team approached UFC and Dana except they didn't this fact seems lost on you. It's like if I had a rare item and you knew about it and got in contact with me and we began negotiating a deal and lets say you didn't want to pay what I was selling the item for well that's on you, I can sell it to many many other buyers and get a better price that's doesn't mean I was at fault the onus is on the buyer not the seller.

I agree that it made sense for M1 to want to copromote because it would have made him them lots of money. It did not make sense for the UFC to copromote because it would not have made them money compared to running events like they had. I said that about 5 pages ago. You’re acting like it made business sense for the UFC to comply with this request when it truly did not.

And yes, if you have a rare item you can charge whatever you want for it. But there is some level of responsibility attributed to the seller that you’re not seeing here. It is possible for the seller to ask for things they know they won’t get or that don’t make sense for the buyer to give up. It’s called pricing yourself out of negotiations. Anyone with a modicum of understanding about the UFCs business model knew they were not going to copromote with M1. So while it makes sense that M1 wanted to, it starts to make a lot less sense to make that aspect a sticking point of the negotiations.

I get the feeling that you’re just mad that you didn’t get to see Fedor beat guys like Lesnar and Couture. Sorry that didn’t happen bud.

 

[HHJ]

Fedor would've run UFC HW from 2001-2013 if they're was no m1 or pride

And if Fedor (His name be praised) had been born 2000 years ago, he would have united the slavic tribes and sacked Rome.