Farmed Salmon

[dragon50]

I hear so much about pcb's and mercury in Wild Fish. Is it safer to eat farmed fish. I notice that it is usually much cheaper than wild fish -epecially Salmon.

 

[Chad Hamilton]

don't eat the farmed raised fish...overpopulation = excess feces
among many other reasons but that one stands out the most to me.

Wild...most of the mercury is found in the organs and not in the muscle.

 

[Sinister]

On the contrary, I've read that the health benefits far outweight the negative aspects. This is one of those make your own decision deals.

 

[supersudo]

i remember hearing that the healthiest salmon is specifically wild alaskan salmon...

source: that perricone guy always promoting the benefits of fish oil on kpbs :wink:

 

[BoxingFanNoMore]

Wild Alaskan Salmon is just about the best bet when it comes to salmon, or any fish for that matter. But it is very expensive, and I am pretty sure that fishing wild salmon is prohitibed in the atlantic, so any fish that is labeled atlantic salmon is farmed.

The only concern I was really aware about, is that farmed fish are fed pellets, in which they add a variety of things, antibiotics, chemicals to make the salmon have the same color as wild salmon. Which leads to less mercury, because they arent eating other mercury contaminated fish, but isnt exactly natural.

I pretty much stay away from everything execpt tuna, and the occasional sushi dinner. If you want the benefits of the EFA's found in fish, I would suggest a supplement.

I just dont find it worth while to try to add filleted fish into my diet, anymore. Eventhough, its a great source of lean protein and Omega 3's.

But, if I am at a resteraunt I will order Alaskan Wild Salmon if they have it once in ahile. But other than that, its pretty much just tuna and a Fish Oil supplement.


I really dont know about excess feces as being a problem, I know it has impact on the enviroment surrounding the fish pens, but most fish farms have sewage systems and flush the pens, the imapct is done one the water surrounding the pens, not the pens themsevles. At least, that is what I understood it to be.

And mercury binds to tissue proteins, so it is defenatley gets stored in the muscle of fish.

 

[Urban]

The nutrition of farmed fish is so bad that they color the flesh of the salmon before sending it to market. They do this because if they didn't it would be EXTREMELY light, I've heard almost white. What does the nutrition of an animals diet tell you about the quality of food it will be? a lot. Buy wild fish, wild game, grass fed cows, free-range chickens, etc. as often as you can.

 

[Urban]

Also, I beleive salmon is a low mercury fish anyways. Things you want to stay away from are fish like shark and swordfish. and sure, if you ate high mercury fish every day, at every meal, it'll effect you, but a slab of salmon or a can of tuna every day isn't going to hurt anything.

 

[BoxingFanNoMore]

The nutrition of farmed fish is so bad that they color the flesh of the salmon before sending it to market. They do this because if they didn't it would be EXTREMELY light, I've heard almost white. What does the nutrition of an animals diet tell you about the quality of food it will be? a lot. Buy wild fish, wild game, grass fed cows, free-range chickens, etc. as often as you can.

Also, some farms actually use grain base feed as their main source of fish food. Which will probably only become more and more common, since fish based feed products will likely become more expensive and less available over time.

Just something to look forward to, the corn industry plowing it's way right into the ocean. Along with the pesticides and fertizlizers.

If you look at the benefits of grass fed cattle over cornfed cattle, can you imagine what a cornfed fish will be like.

Oh well, it wont be to long before we have artifically grown meat.

 

[Herculean]

yeah u posted this in s&p aswell wtf ?

i will just repost

you know mercury occurs naturally in the envirnoment right ?


"Fish and shellfish are an important part of a healthy diet. Fish and shellfish contain high-quality protein and other essential nutrients, are low in saturated fat, and contain omega-3 fatty acids. A well-balanced diet that includes a variety of fish and shellfish can contribute to heart health and children's proper growth and development. So, women and young children in particular should include fish or shellfish in their diets due to the many nutritional benefits.

However, nearly all fish and shellfish contain traces of mercury. For most people, the risk from mercury by eating fish and shellfish is not a health concern. Yet, some fish and shellfish contain higher levels of mercury that may harm an unborn baby or young child's developing nervous system. The risks from mercury in fish and shellfish depend on the amount of fish and shellfish eaten and the levels of mercury in the fish and shellfish. Therefore, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) are advising women who may become pregnant, pregnant women, nursing mothers, and young children to avoid some types of fish and eat fish and shellfish that are lower in mercury."

-http://www.epa.gov/waterscience/fishadvice/advice.html

 

[BoxingFanNoMore]

Oh, yeah awhile back there was a thread that involved organic labeling. In which I stated that the FDA, has no definition of organic or natural. But the USDA, does have some guidelines on what determines organic grown crops, and livestock. And Organic doesnt mean wild, or grassfed. However, there are no organic standards for seafood, of any kind. So, you can label fish organic, as long as its not the USDA official label.

I dont know how many times people have told me, I only buy organic fish. I say what, they say yeah I buy fish from my grocery store that only sells organic products.

This is supposed to change sometime next year, but if you search for that other thread. You can read the problems with the USDA's guidelines.

 

[BoxingFanNoMore]

you know mercury occurs naturally in the envirnoment right ?

So does arsenic, in fact most elements on the periodic table of elements occur naturally in the enviroment. What do you think is going to make up the enviroment, synthetic rubbers?

Doesnt mean you want to eat them. Uranium, occurs naturally, in fact there was most likely a naturally occuring fission reactor at one time.


The mercury that naturally occurs in the enviroment isnt the problem for the most part, a form of mercury called methyl mercury, which can be made by bacteria, which moves it way up the food chain. That is what is to be concerned about, when looking at mercury poisoning in fish.


Damn, just noticed this section only go's back 7 pages. Guess we need a new sponsor around here.

 

[Herculean]

So does arsenic, in fact most elements on the periodic table of elements occur naturally in the enviroment. What do you think is going to make up the enviroment, synthetic rubbers?

Doesnt mean you want to eat them. Uranium, occurs naturally, in fact there was most likely a naturally occuring fission reactor at one time.


The mercury that naturally occurs in the enviroment isnt the problem for the most part, a form of mercury called methyl mercury, which can be made by bacteria, which moves it way up the food chain. That is what is to be concerned about, when looking at mercury poisoning in fish.


Damn, just noticed this section only go's back 7 pages. Guess we need a new sponsor around here.

i was just trying to say the trace ammounts in fish are not a big problem


shit dont you think we would all be dead by now if it was .

like all foods have trace amounts of minerals or metals etc , its just when people start to panic and say "stay away from fish its bad ! it has mercury ! , we might get sick !".....

 

[Herculean]

Oh, yeah awhile back there was a thread that involved organic labeling. In which I stated that the FDA, has no definition of organic or natural. But the USDA, does have some guidelines on what determines organic grown crops, and livestock. And Organic doesnt mean wild, or grassfed. However, there are no organic standards for seafood, of any kind. So, you can label fish organic, as long as its not the USDA official label.

I dont know how many times people have told me, I only buy organic fish. I say what, they say yeah I buy fish from my grocery store that only sells organic products.

This is supposed to change sometime next year, but if you search for that other thread. You can read the problems with the USDA's guidelines.

i dont know anything about USDA , i have never seen "organic fish" labled in australian supermarkets , only organic fruit and vegetables.


i recall something in that said , for your soil to be classed as organic , it takes around 3 years .. thats in australia though

 

[Herculean]

Oh well, it wont be to long before we have artifically grown meat.

i hope things lean back towards organic ,natural feeding, getting rid of toxic pestasides etc , i think ... at least where i live .. its kind of getting some attention ..

 

[BoxingFanNoMore]

i was just trying to say the trace ammounts in fish are not a big problem


shit dont you think we would all be dead by now if it was .

like all foods have trace amounts of minerals or metals etc , its just when people start to panic and say "stay away from fish its bad ! it has mercury ! , we might get sick !".....

I like to think of future generations and the impact I have on them. Not just take confidence that past generations somehow managed to get up to this point.

Thankfully the problem isnt as bad as it once was, because people did start to panic. You do realize that there werent always laws protecting the enviroment, and that in the 1960's and 70's there were outbreaks of mercury poisoning, from eating fish and using methylmercury in pesticides. Leading to Deaths in many cases.


If we have trace amounts today, imagine what it was like in the 1960's and 70's. Then imagine what it would be like today if nobody gave a shit, and everybody said, we made it this far havent we.

I can remember growing up in Los Angeles, we use to have smog alerts. Then people started to panic, when you couldnt even go outside with out your eyes watering, and figured something isnt right here. I am kind of glad things have gotten a little better since then.

 

[BoxingFanNoMore]

i dont know anything about USDA , i have never seen "organic fish" labled in australian supermarkets , only organic fruit and vegetables.


i recall something in that said , for your soil to be classed as organic , it takes around 3 years .. thats in australia though

Yeah, thats kind of the problem, different countires have different standards.

Here in the US, it's pretty much no antibiotics, fertalizers, hormones, pesticides.

So the agricultural industry, decided just to genetically modify things, so they didnt need antibiotics and pesticides, and still label their prodcuts "organic". Which alot of countries weren't to thrilled about suppliers selling imported "organic" products, that just happen to be genetically modified.

 

[Herculean]

I like to think of future generations and the impact I have on them. Not just take confidence that past generations somehow managed to get up to this point.

Thankfully the problem isnt as bad as it once was, because people did start to panic. You do realize that there werent always laws protecting the enviroment, and that in the 1960's and 70's there were outbreaks of mercury poisoning, from eating fish and using methylmercury in pesticides. Leading to Deaths in many cases.


If we have trace amounts today, imagine what it was like in the 1960's and 70's. Then imagine what it would be like today if nobody gave a shit, and everybody said, we made it this far havent we.

I can remember growing up in Los Angeles, we use to have smog alerts. Then people started to panic, when you couldnt even go outside with out your eyes watering, and figured something isnt right here. I am kind of glad things have gotten a little better since then.

yeah i am aware , and of such things as good old dumping DDT in the water aswell , i was not around back then though so did not live through it personally .

there are still many many fucked up things going on , such as the high amounts of flouride being put in our water .. but thats another topic there.

i do think about future and current peoples who will be eating the foods , i just guess i really meant pre 1900's with the mercury levels .. and now they seem to be ok ..

Yeah, thats kind of the problem, different countires have different standards.

Here in the US, it's pretty much no antibiotics, fertalizers, hormones, pesticides.

So the agricultural industry, decided just to genetically modify things, so they didnt need antibiotics and pesticides, and still label their prodcuts "organic". Which alot of countries weren't to thrilled about suppliers selling imported "organic" products, that just happen to be genetically modified.

did not know this .. but that sounds very fucked up .. i hope it is not similar here , though i have not heard of it being done.

we have good places though .. i mean there are small private places that sell organic foods , they own farms etc .. its good that people are doing this , i hope more people catch on ..

 

[Urban]

Why are GM foods so bad? Personally I think that they're really going to be our salvation in the near future. Think about cows that can eat a corn diet and get the same fatty acid profile as those that are fed a grass diet? By genetically modifying animals so they don't need antibiotics, what exactly are they doing to them? Making them produce their own (that would be wrong) or modifying them in some other way to inhibit pathogens from taking hold? Why does everyone get so upset about GM foods?

It's not that I have an opinion that modifying foods is good or bad, I really just don't know the score here. Somebody enlighten me please. What I do know is we've be tweaking the hell out of foods for millenia. for example, Corn used to be a grass with THREE kernels, do you think it should still be considered natural today?

 

[BoxingFanNoMore]

GM pratices arent bad per se, but there are some concerns. Most Eco freaks will tell you anything GM is bad, but they dont realize, insulin is made by genetically modifying either bacteria or plants to produce it, so you can have insulin that people arent allergic to. I dont think anybody would argue that is bad, but that can be controlled rather easily.

When you start introducing GM food into a large scale agriculutural system, there are some serious problems that have to be looked into. There have already been cases of GM pollen being spread into the natural ecosystem, producers mixing up GM corn not certified for human consumption with there certified corn.

Like you said, hybridization of crops and selective breeding has been going on since the begining of agricultural socities, but when you start making goats that can produce spider silk, things can get out of hand. When regular crops and animals start to inherit these traits, and then those plants or animals pass through the ecosystem nobody can predict what can possibly happen, it is far to complex and we really have any long term data to look at.

It's kind of like the antibiotic subject, we introduced antibiotics in every possible product we could, killed off all the bacteria that those antibiotics were toxic to, but now we left the bacteria that were resistant with no competition for resources, so they flourish.

So, I wouldnt say GM foods are necessarily bad, but is potentially very risky. And, IMHO not worth introducing into large scale production.

As far as how GM works, its pretty much taking traits out of one organism and putting that trait into another. For example, some plants have a gene that is responsible for producing a toxin for known crop destroying insects. So you take the genetic material that produces that gene out of that plant and implant it into your crop, problem solved you dont have to use a pesticide for that certain insect. And you can still label your crop, organic because you didnt use pesticides.

Same thing for animals, some animals are resistant to certain viruses, but instead of having to buy and administer vaccines and antibiotics, you just incoroporate that certain trait into your herds.

The idea and science behind it is interesting, but is it worth it. Most supporters say, they can produce more nutrional, drought resistant, insect resistant, disease resistant, more flaverful, and all kinds of other things. But what if those plants start spreading uncontrollably, normal plants wont have a chance to compete with that kind competition, and then what if those GM plants are toxic to other organisms that count on the regular plant.

There is a lot of propaganda on both sides of the fence on the subject. But they try to market GM foods as a way to end hunger in the world. Famine and Hunger, have little to do with the ability to produce food, and more to do with who wants to pay for it.

The fact is, in most cases it is used to increase profits and lower risks, not to help nutrional value.

 

[BoxingFanNoMore]

IMHO, this is are salvation

Synthetic Meat

Take the farming monopolies out of meat production. Give them some competition, level the playing field so natural farms can compete. Offer consumers more choices.

Reduce the demand for grain products in the process.

Afterall, if we can clone animals, why cant we just clone an 8 ounce fillet of a particulaly good tasting wild alaskan salmon.