Far Eastern Sea Power is changing the World Order

[Ghost in the Dark]

From 1812, or arguably earlier, to 1944 the World Order was maintained by British Sea Power.

After WW2 the UK's role reduced and that baton was handed to its eldest child the USA.

Ruling the waves with your navy and linking colonies with homelands and production fields with markets with your merchant fleet is how the world economy is organised. Who rules the waves decides who buys and sells what, where, when and at what price and who can project political and military power beyond their borders.

The shipbuilding industry, as well as the manufacturing of the various heavy equipment, machine tools and precision instruments required to operate docks and ships etc. has shifted from the UK and USA to the Far East.


World Top 10 Shipbuilding Countries

1. Hyundai Heavy Industry – Ulsan, South Korea
2. Daewoo Shipbuilding – Okpo, South Korea
3. Samsung Heavy Industry – Geoje, South Korea
4. Hyundai Samho – Samho, South Korea
5. Mitsubishi Heavy Industry – Nagasaki, Japan

6. Tsuneishi shipbuilding – Numakuma, Japan
7. Oshima Shipbuilding – Oshima, Japan
8. Hyundai Mipo – Ulsan, South Korea
9. Imabari Shipbuilding – Marugame, Japan
10. Shanghai Waigaoqiao – Shanghai, China

100% East Asian


World Top 10 Biggest Ports

1 Shanghai, China,
2 Singapore
3 Tianjin, China
4 Guangzhou, China
5 Ningbo, China

6 Rotterdam, Netherlands
7 Suzhou, China
8 Quingdao, China
9 Dalian, China
10 Busan, South Korea

90% East Asian


East Asian countries are rapidly moving to a global domination of vessel ownership.

Now China is embarking on a huge naval shipbuilding program

Significantly, just since 2014, China has launched naval vessels with a total tonnage greater than the tonnages of the entire French, German, Indian, Italian, South Korean, Spanish or Taiwanese navies (see graphic). However, Japan’s large number of destroyers and the UK’s big Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessels just push those two countries’ respective tonnage totals ahead of the Chinese output for 2014–18.

The data also underscores how that Chinese output has accelerated in recent years, and throws up some striking comparisons even with recent US naval shipbuilding. In the period 2012–14, US output remained just ahead in total tonnage terms, not least with the launch of the 100,000-tonne aircraft carrier USS Gerald R. Ford. In 2015–17, China was significantly ahead, thanks in part to the launch of its own first indigenous aircraft carrier.

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it may not be too long before, as well as assembling an impressive armada in the South China Sea, China’s investments in naval capability will see it able to deploy really quite significant task groups of ships further afield as well.

Edit: all of my URL links did not show up.

 

[EL CORINTHIAN]

Greece represent!

 

[Armbars]

They know soon enough sea levels will be so high land will get congested and significantly smaller. They're thinking ahead.

 

[Johann]

I'm legitimately shocked by the Greek stat. I had no idea they were still that involved in shipping.

 

[snakedafunky]

I'm legitimately shocked by the Greek stat. I had no idea they were still that involved in shipping.

That's because shipping is the most corrupt industry of them all.

If there is an industry that offers you not to pay taxes and get somewhere based on corruption.
You can always call the Greeks ''interested''.

 

[Ruprecht]

That's because shipping is the most corrupt industry of them all.

If there is an industry that offers you not to pay taxes and get somewhere based on corruption.
You can always call the Greeks ''interested''.

I'm sure their long history as a maritime nation has something to do with it.

 

[Supereem]

That's because shipping is the most corrupt industry of them all.

If there is an industry that offers you not to pay taxes and get somewhere based on corruption.
You can always call the Greeks ''interested''.

Im a commercial shipping executive and maritime lawyer who has worked in a big three London firm. once again you have made an idiotic post.

The tax regime of all shipping counties is low or non existent, and that’s because of the nature of the business. With flags of convenience, it is possible to pay zero tax for any nationality, and as a result all shipping countries have decent tax regimes. Currently, German shipowners get a very good deal. Sadly, Germans make horrible shipowners, luckily, it means Greeks can buy their ships for nothing when they inevitably go bankrupt, as seen when the KG companies collapsed and Greeks moved in and took over the Panamax and under boxship segment. Greek owners pay a VOLUNTARY tax willingly to keep Greece out of bankruptcy. What other industry would offer to do this?

In regard to illegal activity, the dodgy shipowners do not usually come from the power countries like Greece, but countries like Turkey that use shipping form drug smuggling. Greek owners have a much better safety record than most other nations because Greeks take very good care of their vessels and have a passion for this industry.

That being said, the international regime is extremely strict and it’s hard to operate a ship without following all the regulations. We have port states, IMO, eu, and even US regulations to follow.

So how exactly are Greek shipowners corrupt? What laws are being broken? All the big owners are listed on the stock exchange, what laws have Angelicoussis, Tsakos, Chandris, Palios or Frangou broken? How are they corrupt?

 

[Supereem]

I'm sure their long history as a maritime nation has something to do with it.

Small island communities that have been shipowners for hundreds of years. Having the Greek business mindset also helps in cyclical economies.

 

[Supereem]

I'm legitimately shocked by the Greek stat. I had no idea they were still that involved in shipping.

Right now we are having Posedonia, the bi-annual shipping conference in Athens. Lots of interesting developments coming out of it.

Greeks are the undisputed masters of seaborne trade, which kind of fucks up the purpose of this thread.

 

[snakedafunky]

Im a commercial shipping executive and maritime lawyer who has worked in a big three London firm. once again you have made an idiotic post.

The tax regime of all shipping counties is low or non existent, and that’s because of the nature of the business. With flags of convenience, it is possible to pay zero tax for any nationality, and as a result all shipping countries have decent tax regimes. Currently, German shipowners get a very good deal. Sadly, Germans make horrible shipowners, luckily, it means Greeks can buy their ships for nothing when they inevitably go bankrupt, as seen when the KG companies collapsed and Greeks moved in and took over the Panamax and under boxship segment. Greek owners pay a VOLUNTARY tax willingly to keep Greece out of bankruptcy. What other industry would offer to do this?

In regard to illegal activity, the dodgy shipowners do not usually come from the power countries like Greece, but countries like Turkey that use shipping form drug smuggling. Greek owners have a much better safety record than most other nations because Greeks take very good care of their vessels and have a passion for this industry.

That being said, the international regime is extremely strict and it’s hard to operate a ship without following all the regulations. We have port states, IMO, eu, and even US regulations to follow.

So how exactly are Greek shipowners corrupt? What laws are being broken? All the big owners are listed on the stock exchange, what laws have Angelicoussis, Tsakos, Chandris, Palios or Frangou broken? How are they corrupt?

Well, I am not a lawyer like most people here.
So I guess its just one of those coincidences that the most corrupt country in the western world is also most represented in the most corrupt industry.
The greeks really can't catch a break.
They are really unlucky. It just so happen that the one industry they seem to choose to invest in is the most corrupt one.

SAD.

 

[Supereem]

Well, I am not a lawyer like most people here.
So I guess its just one of those coincidences that the most corrupt country in the western world is also most represented in the most corrupt industry.
The greeks really can't catch a break.
They are really unlucky. It just so happen that the one industry they seem to choose to invest in is the most corrupt one.

SAD.

So you offered no examples or statistics.

If you were smart you would bring up Marinakis’s alleged heroine smuggling. That inself is a fascinating insight into current Greek political culture and deserves its own thread (if people gave a shit).

If shipping was as corrupt as you say then Oldendorff would not exist.

 

[snakedafunky]

So you offered no examples or statistics.

If you were smart you would bring up Marinakis’s alleged heroine smuggling. That inself is a fascinating insight into current Greek political culture and deserves its own thread (if people gave a shit).

If shipping was as corrupt as you say then Oldendorff would not exist.

Yeah sorry, I was wrong.
Like I said this must have just been one of the very unlucky coincidences that caused the issue in Greece.

 

[ShinkanPo]

China will soon dominate whole Asia and there will be a
re- alignment of the worlds hegemons.

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

Famed Greek Shipping Industry Doesn’t Use Greek Ports

ATHENS – While stating they support their country with voluntary taxes, the largely-untaxed Greek shipping industry uses Greek ports only 9 percent of its activity and while using flags of convenience of other countries.

That makes its influence on the economy during a seven-year-long crushing economic crisis minimal, an industry study reported by Kathimerini has found.

Greek shipping companies control the world’s biggest fleet of tankers and cargo ships, totaling 171.3 million tons of the sector’s overall 210 million ton capacity, representing 81.5 percent of the Greek-owned fleet which conducts 91 percent of its business outside Greece.. China is the biggest market for Greek shipping interests concerning these sub-sectors, with a share of 14 percent, followed by the USA, with a 12 percent share.

Like Greek-owned ships, the fleets of other major European shipowning countries, such as Denmark, Norway and Italy, mainly provide services for key Asian markets, including China, South Korea and Japan.

//

Anger with Greek Shipowners on the Rise

On the list of Greeks hated by their countrymen, shipowners have almost reached the top; only politicians are more reviled. They are threatened by radical leftist groups and even physically attacked. There have also been attempted kidnappings. In at least one case, a family of a shipowner paid millions in ransom.

Shipping magnates in Greece are considered greedy and unscrupulous. According to international analyses, at least €140 billion of shipping industry money has gone untaxed since 2002, a sum that would reduce the critically indebted country's financial obligations by almost half. In Switzerland alone, there is thought to be up to €60 billion in Greek funds, mostly belonging to shipping companies. They were partly accumulated legally, thanks to a web of special regulations allowing tax exemptions for ship owners, and partly illegally, through outright tax evasion. In the past year, Viktor Restis, a shipping company owner, was arrested under suspicion of money laundering.

//

Greek shipping companies Aegean and Tsakos dragged into Petrobras corruption probe

Greek shipping companies Aegean Group and Tsakos Group have been dragged into the Brazilian corruption scandal involving the country's state-controlled oil company, Petróleo Brasileiro, or Petrobras.

The companies are alleged to have paid middlemen, who in turn bribed Petrobras officials to help secure contracts for the shipping companies.

The allegations are made in a recent court filing by the Federal Prosecutors Office from the state of Paraná as part of their investigation into corruption at Petrobras, known as Operation Lava Jato.

//

Shipping is “Most Corrupt Industry”

Global shipping has been announced as the most corrupt industry in comparison to any other after it was discovered that it had experienced the most cases of corruption, according to Alexandra Wrage, the President and Founder of anti-bribery compliance expert Trace.

PTI has previously reported on a number of corruption cases, including a Tanzanian Port Authority boss who was suspended indefinitely after allegedly violating procurement procedures.

As reported by Splash 247, Alexandra Wrage, said: “In many ways, the shipping industry is exposed to more levels of corruption than any other industry, as it is a global industry that does not have a mature anti-corruption compliance culture.

“This industry is traditionally very opaque, and has only made a slow shift to greater transparency. Fraud, bribery, and other illegalities are endemic to some parts of the industry, and the world.”

 

[Supereem]

Yeah sorry, I was wrong.
Like I said this must have just been one of the very unlucky coincidences that caused the issue in Greece.

Greece is corrupt, obviously. No one pays taxes and the legal system is shit. Why? Lots of reasons. Many for the same reason Italy is. Also for the fact the country didn’t have a reinassance or an enlightenment outside a few noble families scattered around the region. The scars of 400 Years Turkish occupation (and in some cases slavery) are still visible.

That being said, the Greeks honoured their bargain with the EU (Germany) in re debt. You’re about to have a much bigger problem with the Italians, and perhaps your perspective on who is more corrupt may change.

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

China will soon dominate whole Asia and there will be a
re- alignment of the worlds hegemons.

China + Russia tag team with all of that production, high tech and natural resources + ability to project power on land and at sea would be pretty hard to stop.

If China can wrestle South Korea and Japan away from the U.S.A. it will not be looking good for the West.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Greece and Democracy was literally founded on the seas. Glad to see Greece not losing its roots in naval ability.

 

[Supereem]

Famed Greek Shipping Industry Doesn’t Use Greek Ports

ATHENS – While stating they support their country with voluntary taxes, the largely-untaxed Greek shipping industry uses Greek ports only 9 percent of its activity and while using flags of convenience of other countries.

That makes its influence on the economy during a seven-year-long crushing economic crisis minimal, an industry study reported by Kathimerini has found.

Greek shipping companies control the world’s biggest fleet of tankers and cargo ships, totaling 171.3 million tons of the sector’s overall 210 million ton capacity, representing 81.5 percent of the Greek-owned fleet which conducts 91 percent of its business outside Greece.. China is the biggest market for Greek shipping interests concerning these sub-sectors, with a share of 14 percent, followed by the USA, with a 12 percent share.

Like Greek-owned ships, the fleets of other major European shipowning countries, such as Denmark, Norway and Italy, mainly provide services for key Asian markets, including China, South Korea and Japan.

//

Anger with Greek Shipowners on the Rise

On the list of Greeks hated by their countrymen, shipowners have almost reached the top; only politicians are more reviled. They are threatened by radical leftist groups and even physically attacked. There have also been attempted kidnappings. In at least one case, a family of a shipowner paid millions in ransom.

Shipping magnates in Greece are considered greedy and unscrupulous. According to international analyses, at least €140 billion of shipping industry money has gone untaxed since 2002, a sum that would reduce the critically indebted country's financial obligations by almost half. In Switzerland alone, there is thought to be up to €60 billion in Greek funds, mostly belonging to shipping companies. They were partly accumulated legally, thanks to a web of special regulations allowing tax exemptions for ship owners, and partly illegally, through outright tax evasion. In the past year, Viktor Restis, a shipping company owner, was arrested under suspicion of money laundering.

//

Greek shipping companies Aegean and Tsakos dragged into Petrobras corruption probe

Greek shipping companies Aegean Group and Tsakos Group have been dragged into the Brazilian corruption scandal involving the country's state-controlled oil company, Petróleo Brasileiro, or Petrobras.

The companies are alleged to have paid middlemen, who in turn bribed Petrobras officials to help secure contracts for the shipping companies.

The allegations are made in a recent court filing by the Federal Prosecutors Office from the state of Paraná as part of their investigation into corruption at Petrobras, known as Operation Lava Jato.

//

Shipping is “Most Corrupt Industry”

Global shipping has been announced as the most corrupt industry in comparison to any other after it was discovered that it had experienced the most cases of corruption, according to Alexandra Wrage, the President and Founder of anti-bribery compliance expert Trace.

PTI has previously reported on a number of corruption cases, including a Tanzanian Port Authority boss who was suspended indefinitely after allegedly violating procurement procedures.

As reported by Splash 247, Alexandra Wrage, said: “In many ways, the shipping industry is exposed to more levels of corruption than any other industry, as it is a global industry that does not have a mature anti-corruption compliance culture.

“This industry is traditionally very opaque, and has only made a slow shift to greater transparency. Fraud, bribery, and other illegalities are endemic to some parts of the industry, and the world.”

I’ll address this quickly.

- Tsakos didn’t bribe anyone in Brazil, it’s not in a position to do so. Look for dodgy brokers that work as the middlemen.

- Shipowners at enorm hated, they are mostly celebrated and build up their local communities with world class infrastructure. please refer to the Greek media. Greeks are not taxed under Greek law, and if the law would change they would leave Greece just like every shipowner of every nationality does. In this business you can’t pay normal tax and survive becsuse you will Be undercut by the guy who uses FOC. Luckily, the Greek owners have a huge surplus and pay a voluntary tax. You failed to mention this.

- Greek don’t use their ports because they don’t import or export anything. Obviously...Not sure why you even mentioned that.

- in re shipping corruption, you didn’t supply a statistic or a study but he opinion of a some woman. Her examples are corrupt ports (not shipping) and liner corruption. All the price fixing in liners is done by Asians, danish or Italians. It was a scandal and they got hammered hard. Liner shipping is a messy business and not very profitable. Greeks don’t touch it, and it’s not an example of Greek shipping being corrupt (which was what I was responding to).

We live in the age of the Joe Rogan intellectual where someone thinks a quick google search can trump the opinion of a post graduate specialist in a field. Lol.

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

I’ll address this quickly.

- Tsakos didn’t bribe anyone in Brazil, it’s not in a position to do so. Look for dodgy brokers that work as the middlemen.

- Shipowners at enorm hated, they are mostly celebrated and build up their local communities with world class infrastructure. please refer to the Greek media. Greeks are not taxed under Greek law, and if the law would change they would leave Greece just like every shipowner of every nationality does. In this business you can’t pay normal tax and survive becsuse you will Be undercut by the guy who uses FOC. Luckily, the Greek owners have a huge surplus and pay a voluntary tax. You failed to mention this.

- Greek don’t use their ports because they don’t import or export anything. Obviously...Not sure why you even mentioned that.

- in re shipping corruption, you didn’t supply a statistic or a study but he opinion of a some woman. Her examples are corrupt ports (not shipping) and liner corruption. All the price fixing in liners is done by Asians, danish or Italians. It was a scandal and they got hammered hard. Liner shipping is a messy business and not very profitable. Greeks don’t touch it, and it’s not an example of Greek shipping being corrupt (which was what I was responding to).

We live in the age of the Joe Rogan intellectual where someone thinks a quick google search can trump the opinion of a post graduate specialist in a field. Lol.

Thanks for giving the other side and an insider's point of view.

 

[Ghost in the Dark]

Greece and Democracy was literally founded on the seas. Glad to see Greece not losing its roots in naval ability.