Facts: Jon Jones deserves MORE money than Deontay Wilder makes per fight.

[neonbelly***]

"Deserve" isn't a sensible concept.

 

[MRT]

Let's forget that Jones is a scumbag and look at the numbers here.

Dana actually made himself look like an ass with this comparison.

Jones is a MUCH bigger draw historically than Wilder is.


View attachment 772541



These are actually amazing PPV numbers compared to most elite level boxers over the past decade not named Mayweather, Pacquiao or Canelo.

He's sold over 7 million PPV buys as a headliner. Wilder has only fought on PPV three times in his career. The dude wasn't any kind of draw before the Fury rivalry started.


For more perspective on Wilder:

Widler/Fury 1 did 325K buys.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...fury-fight-generates-325000-pay-per-view-buys

Wilder/Ortiz 2 did 225K buys

https://www.badlefthook.com/2019/12...-luis-ortiz-2-does-roughly-225000-buys-on-ppv

Wilder Fury 2 did 750K buys.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...fury-fight-generates-325000-pay-per-view-buys

The notion that Jones doesn't deserve more than $5 million per fight is farcical.

Wilder got paid $20 million to fight Breazeale on Showtime.

Terence Crawford, who's top a P4P boxer, but virtually unknown outside of hardcore boxing circles and his hometown of Omaha, just got $5 million for a non-PPV ESPN fight.

Sorry, but Dana is totally out of line here. I don't care how terrible of a human being Jones is. This is the umpteenth example of how he and other top level MMA fighters get jerked around by Dana and the UFC.

Using Conor as a benchmark for the supposed ceiling of UFC pay is also ridiculous. He's getting robbed too.

You left out potentially important variables though...gate revenue (and perhaps other potential revenue sources).

From my post here, when gate comparisons and whether Conor could fight in an empty arena came up, we see differences between 'big' UFC events and 'big' boxing events:

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...khabib-after-jg.4106572/page-6#post-160186264

"The biggest boxing events do more than the biggest MMA events...and boxing has more 'big' gates than UFC...but UFC gates are not insignificant.

http://boxing.nv.gov/results/Top_MMA_Gates/
https://www.sportbible.com/ufc/mma-...history-make-for-interesting-reading-20191223
https://www.theversed.com/69902/may...-highest-boxing-gates-in-history/#.JhcbFRw4gu

I think when Conor-Cowboy is added, Conor was part of 6 of the top 8 UFC gates...the other two being GSP-Shields (which set the attendance record in Toronto) and the *stacked* UFC 200 card.

Conor's gate means something to UFC...but if the PPV numbers are big enough, maybe it doesn't prevent him from fighting with no gate? I don't know..."

Now the boxing link is 2.5 years old, so it is not going to include the most recent fights, but quickly here is some more info:

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...fury-ii-gate-breaks-nevada-heavyweight-record

Wilder-Fury: 16.9 million (no Jones gate has come close)

Wilder-Ortiz 2 - 4.06 million (Jones-Santos did over 6...but this more in line with Jones' MAX gates)

Sorry, no time to do a deep dive comparing all the Jones vs. Wilder gates...and I have no idea on the overall revenue each sport and their respective events generate...but what I'm getting at is that PPV numbers alone may not be a good barometer.

Also, need to look at card quality to see if it is "only" Jones or Wilder as the only real draw for the whole event of if there are contributors on the rest of their cards. E.g. if Jones is on a more 'stacked' card, while Wilder is the only draw and the prelims are trash, then directly comparing their PPV numbers could be misleading. Opponents also matter, and that can go both ways...Fury was clearly a major contributor to their record-breaking gate in Vegas, while Ortiz...perhaps not so much.

 

[MyFavSport]

TS doesn't know shit about boxing

 

[RL69]

Top level championship guys make more in boxing than top level championship guys in MMA due to how the respective sports are structured. Not sure why Sherdoggers still can’t understand this

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Let's forget that Jones is a scumbag and look at the numbers here.

Dana actually made himself look like an ass with this comparison.

Jones is a MUCH bigger draw historically than Wilder is.


View attachment 772541



These are actually amazing PPV numbers compared to most elite level boxers over the past decade not named Mayweather, Pacquiao or Canelo.

He's sold over 7 million PPV buys as a headliner. Wilder has only fought on PPV three times in his career. The dude wasn't any kind of draw before the Fury rivalry started.


For more perspective on Wilder:

Widler/Fury 1 did 325K buys.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...fury-fight-generates-325000-pay-per-view-buys

Wilder/Ortiz 2 did 225K buys

https://www.badlefthook.com/2019/12...-luis-ortiz-2-does-roughly-225000-buys-on-ppv

Wilder Fury 2 did 750K buys.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...fury-fight-generates-325000-pay-per-view-buys

The notion that Jones doesn't deserve more than $5 million per fight is farcical.

Wilder got paid $20 million to fight Breazeale on Showtime.

Terence Crawford, who's top a P4P boxer, but virtually unknown outside of hardcore boxing circles and his hometown of Omaha, just got $5 million for a non-PPV ESPN fight.

Sorry, but Dana is totally out of line here. I don't care how terrible of a human being Jones is. This is the umpteenth example of how he and other top level MMA fighters get jerked around by Dana and the UFC.

Using Conor as a benchmark for the supposed ceiling of UFC pay is also ridiculous. He's getting robbed too.

I'm gonna counter everything you just said by quoting you from another thread....

The revenue split would be illegal if the Ali Act applied to MMA.

Bold red underlined italicized added by me.

Cuz that's a very accurate statement, with a very big fucking if.

 

[Kingz]

Theres not as much brand dominance associated with boxing. This way fighters are able to negotiate themselves a bigger piece of the pie since Bob Arum or Al Haymon can’t simply pretend fighters don’t exist and have a legion of shills and casuals act accordingly.

UFC maintains that the UFC experience is the biggest selling point for their shows over any individual fighters

 

[dipstickjimmy]

They're both combat sports functioning on the exact same broadcast/distribution model.

The UFC and boxing promoters both have contracts with ESPN at the moment, and the boxers are literally getting paid ten times as much money to fight on the same platform.

The only difference between boxing and MMA is that the Ali Act doesn't apply to MMA, so the UFC can get away with only paying 15% of revenue to the fighters.

There is nothing "The Exact Same" between how Boxing and MMA operate. In Boxing there are Promoters and MMA there are Promotions. I know the root word is the same but that is where it ends. The UFC is the brand and their title is what matters the most. In Boxing there are 4 major titles and two "Fringe Titles" in MMA there is one the UFC. The UFC brand sold PPVs regardless of the fighters at times and the UFC pays all the costs of putting on events. When you hear Floyd made $xxx Millions he has to pay all of those expenses. The UFC is partly the "League" and partly a "Promoter" which is nothing like boxing.

Fighters will get paid more as things evolve but it will take a union or association to get them there.

 

[Mangar]

To think people actually worry that other richer people aren't getting paid enough ...

 

[Volador]

"Deserve" isn't a sensible concept.

I'm gonna counter everything you just said by quoting you from another thread....



Bold red underlined italicized added by me.

Cuz that's a very accurate statement, with a very big fucking if.

There is nothing "The Exact Same" between how Boxing and MMA operate. In Boxing there are Promoters and MMA there are Promotions. I know the root word is the same but that is where it ends. The UFC is the brand and their title is what matters the most. In Boxing there are 4 major titles and two "Fringe Titles" in MMA there is one the UFC. The UFC brand sold PPVs regardless of the fighters at times and the UFC pays all the costs of putting on events. When you hear Floyd made $xxx Millions he has to pay all of those expenses. The UFC is partly the "League" and partly a "Promoter" which is nothing like boxing.

Fighters will get paid more as things evolve but it will take a union or association to get them there.

Yes to all this.

I agree with TS that UFC fighters deserve a bigger % of the revenue, but at the same time, the UFC and boxing don't operate the same way. So if you're Jones, you can't simply ignore this and pretend it suddenly doesn't matter, and then pretend you really want the fight.

In boxing, if the promoters don't reach an agreement, other promoters can come in and bid on the purses, so of course the purses are higher and there's more competition to pay them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purse_bid

The UFC doesn't have such a system, and Jones hasn't campaigned for it or for a fighter's union as far as I know. Expecting to all of a sudden make 30mil just because it is a big fight seems unrealistic. Without the DC feud, Jones' average PPV sales are 500k. Which is good, but not spectacular. Conor routinely sold 1m+. I wish they paid Jones more, he deserves it. But coming out and demanding it with no precedent just makes it seems like he didn't seriously consider taking the fight in the first place. All this assuming that Dana is being truthful, of course.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

We mma fans think $65.99 is a lot to pay for a ppv.

The last 4 boxing ppv I ordered (pac vs Mayweather, Mayweather vs Canelo, Mayweather vs McGregor and Fury vs Wilder 2) all cost at least $80 and 3 of the 4 cost $99.95.

I'm willing to bet all fighter pay would increase if we were willing to pay boxing ppv price for UFC events. But then all we'd hear is about how expensive UFC is nowadays.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Yes to all this.

I agree with TS that UFC fighters deserve a bigger % of the revenue, but at the same time, the UFC and boxing don't operate the same way. So if you're Jones, you can't simply ignore this and pretend it suddenly doesn't matter, and then pretend you really want the fight.

In boxing, if the promoters don't reach an agreement, other promoters can come in and bid on the purses, so of course the purses are higher and there's more competition to pay the purses:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purse_bid

The UFC doesn't have such a system, and Jones hasn't campaigned for it or for a fighter's union as far as I know. Expecting to all of a sudden make 30mil just because it is a big fight seems unrealistic. Without the DC feud, Jones' average PPV sales are 500k. Which is good, but not spectacular. Conor routinely sold 1m+. I wish they paid Jones more, but coming out and demanding it with no precedent just makes it seems like he didn't seriously consider taking the fight. Assuming that Dana is being truthful, of course.

Right.

If TS wants to make a thread about the Ali Act applying to MMA (and/or the current lawsuit that Cung Le and others are in against UFC, etc) then he should.

 

[J180]

The UFC and Dana know how to play the fans, it's true Wilder does not draw well at all neither does Fury. It was a shock they did not pull in a Million buys on their second fight. And don't even bring up their numbers with other fights they are bad.

"WILDER" - Dana, as if it was Mayweather he was saying, and fans just run with it.

 

[honzo]

Let's not forget they moved a whole event to keep Jon the Main Event. They are happy to milk him when it suits them

 

[BluntForceTrama]

Fuck Jon Jones

 

[Rvd Slmr]

Let's forget that Jones is a scumbag and look at the numbers here.

Dana actually made himself look like an ass with this comparison.

Jones is a MUCH bigger draw historically than Wilder is.


View attachment 772541



These are actually amazing PPV numbers compared to most elite level boxers over the past decade not named Mayweather, Pacquiao or Canelo.

He's sold over 7 million PPV buys as a headliner. Wilder has only fought on PPV three times in his career. The dude wasn't any kind of draw before the Fury rivalry started.


For more perspective on Wilder:

Widler/Fury 1 did 325K buys.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...fury-fight-generates-325000-pay-per-view-buys

Wilder/Ortiz 2 did 225K buys

https://www.badlefthook.com/2019/12...-luis-ortiz-2-does-roughly-225000-buys-on-ppv

Wilder Fury 2 did 750K buys.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...fury-fight-generates-325000-pay-per-view-buys

The notion that Jones doesn't deserve more than $5 million per fight is farcical.

Wilder got paid $20 million to fight Breazeale on Showtime.

Terence Crawford, who's top a P4P boxer, but virtually unknown outside of hardcore boxing circles and his hometown of Omaha, just got $5 million for a non-PPV ESPN fight.

Sorry, but Dana is totally out of line here. I don't care how terrible of a human being Jones is. This is the umpteenth example of how he and other top level MMA fighters get jerked around by Dana and the UFC.

Using Conor as a benchmark for the supposed ceiling of UFC pay is also ridiculous. He's getting robbed too.

PPV is not a reliable tool to measure popularity between two different sports with different audiences. PPV is mostly an American thing and boxing has a wider international audience than the UFC. All the French newspapers have talked about the Wilder/Fury fights and none of them has ever mentioned Jon Jones.

 

[JoeKO]

Not a fair comparison.
UFC is far off boxing at the moment. Maybe one day things will flip.

 

[neonbelly***]

I'd add that if we want to talk about what people deserve, Jon Jones deserves to be ostracized as a disgrace. He's a cheater in the Octagon (PEDs, eye pokes), and he's a reckless scumbag outside of the Octagon. Who cares how cool his spinning elbows are or whatever.

 

[RampageFaction]

Let's forget that Jones is a scumbag and look at the numbers here.

Dana actually made himself look like an ass with this comparison.

Jones is a MUCH bigger draw historically than Wilder is.


View attachment 772541



These are actually amazing PPV numbers compared to most elite level boxers over the past decade not named Mayweather, Pacquiao or Canelo.

He's sold over 7 million PPV buys as a headliner. Wilder has only fought on PPV three times in his career. The dude wasn't any kind of draw before the Fury rivalry started.


For more perspective on Wilder:

Widler/Fury 1 did 325K buys.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...fury-fight-generates-325000-pay-per-view-buys

Wilder/Ortiz 2 did 225K buys

https://www.badlefthook.com/2019/12...-luis-ortiz-2-does-roughly-225000-buys-on-ppv

Wilder Fury 2 did 750K buys.

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...fury-fight-generates-325000-pay-per-view-buys

The notion that Jones doesn't deserve more than $5 million per fight is farcical.

Wilder got paid $20 million to fight Breazeale on Showtime.

Terence Crawford, who's top a P4P boxer, but virtually unknown outside of hardcore boxing circles and his hometown of Omaha, just got $5 million for a non-PPV ESPN fight.

Sorry, but Dana is totally out of line here. I don't care how terrible of a human being Jones is. This is the umpteenth example of how he and other top level MMA fighters get jerked around by Dana and the UFC.

Using Conor as a benchmark for the supposed ceiling of UFC pay is also ridiculous. He's getting robbed too.

I’ve read a handful of articles about the ESPN deal but I’m no expert so somebody correct me if I’m wrong.

The UFC’s deal with espn means they get a licensing fee per PPV equivalent 500k ppv buys. At 60 dollars an event that’s 30 million dollars. Any PPV’s above 500k, they get a percentage. There’s no way it’s a huge percentage because they’re already making out like bandits with a guaranteed 500k PPV buys. So let’s say it’s 50% which I doubt and they sell 1 million PPV’s which I doubt even more. That means 50% of another 30 million which is 15 million. So they have made from ESPN 45 million. How are they gonna pay Jon 30 million and make any money? I say 30 million because Dana says he has proof Jon asked for “what wilder got paid.” It’s not a good investment. The ESPN deal has effectively killed big paydays and super fights. That’s why Lesnar told them piss off.

 

[dragovic]

So what does this tell us?

- Dana is the GOAT businessman in combat sports (obv Lorenzo is there too)

This is merely a result of there only being one premier organization. In boxing it’s different

 

[podsox]

Facts:if you pay the top guys in mma like they do in boxing we get boxing cards. Are people going to buy jones/Anthony smith with an undercard of Dana whites contender series?