Facing the center line:

[BRCLRY]

Centreline: The vertical axis of your body, from your head to your junk, its your vertical center of gravity. There is a front side that is protected by your arms and legs, and the back side that is unprotected.

Facing: Orienting your body so that the front of your Centreline points towards your opponants centreline, like a compas needle ie you can always hit them with both arms and legs.

At 1:55 of the Buakaw Vs Holtzken fight. Buakaw feints a kick, jabs, Holtzken deflects it, and Buakaw angles right slightly, but keeps moving in towards Holtzken's Centreline. Holtzken throws a rear right knee, but Holtzken's is not FACING Buakaw. Buakaw is FACING Holtzken so he easily returns with a right leg kick. Holtzken does almost the exact same thing, but starts it with a reaching right cross which glances off, because he is still not FACING Buakaw.

 

[bowlie]

Boosting my post count ???
I'm 32 not 12./QUOTE]

Srsly? you act 6

 

[Discipulus]

Centreline: The vertical axis of your body, from your head to your junk, its your vertical center of gravity. There is a front side that is protected by your arms and legs, and the back side that is unprotected.

Facing: Orienting your body so that the front of your Centreline points towards your opponants centreline, like a compas needle ie you can always hit them with both arms and legs.

At 1:55 of the Buakaw Vs Holtzken fight. Buakaw feints a kick, jabs, Holtzken deflects it, and Buakaw angles right slightly, but keeps moving in towards Holtzken's Centreline. Holtzken throws a rear right knee, but Holtzken's is not FACING Buakaw. Buakaw is FACING Holtzken so he easily returns with a right leg kick. Holtzken does almost the exact same thing, but starts it with a reaching right cross which glances off, because he is still not FACING Buakaw.

Nice catch.

 

[Strykerx]

With Buakaw I think this is a new adjustment he many a couple of years back. Remember he has been put on his ass a few times. If I can recall correctly before he started working on his boxing.

 

[bowlie]

I would like to point out that a slightly bladed, back foot bias stance allows for a faster teep, lead leg check and in reality (just as with the cross) allows you to "jump" into a rear leg roundhouse with much authority. You know that funny bouncy thing that MT fighters do with their front foot before they break your face with their shin? That's a back foot heavy bias... Which falls under the umbrella of "oldschool" apparently.

It also gives you stronger rear leg kicks as well as faster front legs.

 

[BRCLRY]

This all makes sense to me from a kickboxing perspective, but is this the idea behind boxers that are able to leap into their shots, like RJJ?
They are leaping into dominant positions where they are facing their opponant, but their opponant is not facing them?

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

This all makes sense to me from a kickboxing perspective, but is this the idea behind boxers that are able to leap into their shots, like RJJ?
They are leaping into dominant positions where they are facing their opponant, but their opponant is not facing them?

I dont think so. At least to a certain extent anyway. RJJ in his prime had a lot of speed and power, so a lot of times he just leap into shots directly without any need to secure an angle first. But he does know angles and how to use it.

 

[Soul Rebel 2]

What the ever living fuck happened to this forum? I leave for a couple weeks and when I come back its covered in "Just Blood". Its like people think their training is being undermined as they were never taught about the centreline which is very much a cornerstone of striking science. The fact that people dont see how this is immediately applicable to all striking arts is absolutely baffling.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

What the ever living fuck happened to this forum? I leave for a couple weeks and when I come back its covered in "Just Blood". Its like people think their training is being undermined as they were never taught about the centreline which is very much a cornerstone of striking science. The fact that people dont see how this is immediately applicable to all striking arts is absolutely baffling.

A lot of hearsay about striking techniques, i'd say why. Suddenly, pointing your front foot to the other guy's centreline to keep facing him in muay thai will get your lead leg kicked to death You will get your lead leg kicked to death if you give him the angle to do it.

To me, it is just one of those things that sound "correct" but it actually isn't.

 

[yodave]

A lot of hearsay about striking techniques, i'd say why. Suddenly, pointing your front foot to the other guy's centreline to keep facing him in muay thai will get your lead leg kicked to death You will get your lead leg kicked to death if you give him the angle to do it.

To me, it is just one of those things that sound "correct" but it actually isn't.

but what you don't seem to realise is that if you really are facing your opponent's center mass (and I mean fully facing him, part of that is having your lead foot pointed at his center mass) at all times it is physically impossible for him to get an angle. Hence why it's so effective. You don't want to be facing sideways when he is kicking your leg, if he is doing that you aren't facing his centermass.

 

[Sinister]

This all makes sense to me from a kickboxing perspective, but is this the idea behind boxers that are able to leap into their shots, like RJJ?
They are leaping into dominant positions where they are facing their opponant, but their opponant is not facing them?

Yes, actually. And if you really pay attention to HOW Roy used his speed, it was quite brilliant. For one thing, he made his opponents respect him too much. Thus, he was always in control of the space between them. Remember, control of distance should be the first principal of defense. Hence, Roy appeared to be a defensive wizard in his prime. But his offense did most of the work.

Then there's positioning. How Roy clowned James Toney is a perfect example of what you're asking. Really WATCH what happens:



See any similarities between what happened when James got knocked down, and what happened when my two students got knocked down?

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

but what you don't seem to realise is that if you really are facing your opponent's center mass (and I mean fully facing him, part of that is having your lead foot pointed at his center mass) at all times it is physically impossible for him to get an angle. Hence why it's so effective. You don't want to be facing sideways when he is kicking your leg, if he is doing that you aren't facing his centermass.

I do realize that part, hence why i said the only time you will get your lead leg kicked to death is when you give him the angle, i.e not facing your opponent direcly.

 

[yodave]

I do realize that part, hence why i said the only time you will get your lead leg kicked to death is when you give him the angle, i.e not facing your opponent direcly.

ok you do realize it then, one great example is we all like to wack that heavy bag with one good round house kick, and the best way to do that is do have your hips facing sideways, that way you don't fully need to rotate your kick, you can hit the bag half way through your rotation and this creates a way bigger impact (I am most likely doing a realy crappy job of explaining what I mean but I don't care). That's what you are trying to imitate when you are facing your opponent.

 

[BRCLRY]

See any similarities between what happened when James got knocked down, and what happened when my two students got knocked down?

I couldnt find the second student getting knocked down, but the first example looks exactly the same as the RJJ example except unmatched leads. The orthodox guy gets his lead foot well outside of the southpaws, so even if the southpaw didnt fall, he still is not Facing, and cant really return.

This is turning on lightbulbs for me, I have been fighting the intuition to do some of these things, but I think its what my stance was designed for in the first place. Thanks a bunch man!

 

[Sinister]

The second student being knocked down is in the video right beneath the first one, the paragraph in between them gived you the time mark.

 

[Soul Rebel 2]

A lot of hearsay about striking techniques, i'd say why. Suddenly, pointing your front foot to the other guy's centreline to keep facing him in muay thai will get your lead leg kicked to death You will get your lead leg kicked to death if you give him the angle to do it.

To me, it is just one of those things that sound "correct" but it actually isn't.

But your not necessarily giving them the angle. I think what your describing is having your foot turned in which will indeed get you kicked off your feet but you dont have to do that though, you can have your lead foot pointing straight forward so your base isnt compromised. Where exactly is a thai boxer supposed to have his foot pointing when he's 12-6 with his opponent anyway? At the sky?

 

[BRCLRY]

Does anyone else fight with their lead foot bladed in? I do, if 12:00 is directly in front of me, my front foot usually points to 10:00, so its turned in pretty good, but its still pointed at my opponants centreline. I fi was to point it straight out, it would point out from my shoulder line, not my own centreline. My rear foot points more forward, at 11:00, which means yes I intentionaly stand slightly pigeon toed.

In the 6 months I have been at my MMA gym, I have only gotten kicked in either leg a small handful of times, and never hard. When someone looks like they are going to try, I side kick the shit out of them, or hook kick the inside of their kicking thigh, after a while, no one tries to leg kick me anymore.

Try leg sparring only, no hands, no kicks above the waist. Practice getting close at angles, you cant be kicked, and practice Bridging(Chun term dont know what else to call it), Bridging with the legs, means jamming, use your shins, to wedge into their shins and ankles as you step in, this breaks their structure and sets up hits for you, but you have to be able to find the kicking angles, you cant be kicked at, and then practice staying in those.

 

[Sanshou Kid]

Then there's positioning. How Roy clowned James Toney is a perfect example of what you're asking. Really WATCH what happens:

Watching that video, RJJ seems to be either at Toney's flank (around the back) where Toney can't hit with the right and barely with the left, or attacking him in a way that RJJ is in stance and Toney is stood square and off balanced as soon as Jones rushes him. Never straight in front of him for any length of time.

Is that the kind of point you are getting at? That's kind of what my instructor teaches in regard to grappling.

You try and push straight into someone in stance and they can root in place or empty to the side or whatever.

You position yourself to push into their centre when they're stood square so that they fall back over their heels, there's nowhere to root. and down they go.

Same applies for punching/kicking. Getting to the flank just makes sense. You can hit them, they can't hit you, at least not easily or with any power.

Or am I oversimplifying it and missing something?

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

But your not necessarily giving them the angle. I think what your describing is having your foot turned in which will indeed get you kicked off your feet but you dont have to do that though, you can have your lead foot pointing straight forward so your base isnt compromised. Where exactly is a thai boxer supposed to have his foot pointing when he's 12-6 with his opponent anyway? At the sky?

When you have your lead foot turned in like riding a skateboard, you are not exactly positioning yourself at your opponent's centreline, which means you are not facing him properly. And of course, if you are not facing him properly at his centreline, you are giving angle to him to use (see Dawson - Ward), and thus you are obviously going to get your lead leg kicked in. This is what me and yodave agreed on before.

 

[cajun2099]

Does this still work in a short v tall scenario?