Everyone should celebrate Sept 11 . . . 1683

[Beechwood]

Well, I'm not sure if everyone should celebrate 9/11. My parents do though as it is their 50th wedding anniversary today! It is a good day for us in the family.

 

[Gervinho]

Well, I'm not sure if everyone should celebrate 9/11. My parents do though as it is their 50th wedding anniversary today! It is a good day for us in the family.

its my brothers birthday....we celebrate this day usually

 

[tramendous]

Conqueror is probably most fitting. I don't think Warlord is downplaying it too much though, he's quite the character regardless

Ya everytime i hear warlord i think of some guy in Africa with a rag tag militia. i read this book:

It was pretty good. Timur had some epic campaigns in Russia, India, Persia, Middle East and not to mention some badass titles like 'Lord of the fortunate conjunction'.

While he did build some great monuments and cities, he killed a fuckton of people and his progeny went on to create the Mughal empire. Im surprised he isnt more well known.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Ya everytime i hear warlord i think of some guy in Africa with a rag tag militia. i read this book:

It was pretty good. Timur had some epic campaigns in Russia, India, Persia, Middle East and not to mention some badass titles like 'Lord of the fortunate conjunction'.

While he did build some great monuments and cities, he killed a fuckton of people and his progeny went on to create the Mughal empire. Im surprised he isnt more well known.

I think I've got that one in my cart on amazon right now. A book about Attila is on its way first before I get that one.

Timur is likely just too brutal, too foreign, and too short lived to make his way into general (Western) history, at least for anything outside of a university curriculum.

 

[freaky]

When will we be more like Conor and say this is enough and put a stop to these "peaceful" Muslim parasites?

 

[fallable]

Cheers to King Jan III Sobieski, the Hussars, the Polish, Austrian, and German coalition and their backers, and the people of Vienna.

 

[Rational Poster]

I think I've got that one in my cart on amazon right now. A book about Attila is on its way first before I get that one.

Timur is likely just too brutal, too foreign, and too short lived to make his way into general (Western) history, at least for anything outside of a university curriculum.

I think the reason he isn't so well known is because his empire essentially lived and died with him... and he's from central Asia, and that region is largely overlooked by popular western culture and history in general.

He also didn't have much interaction with the West and spent most of his days just murdering the locals and his nearest neighbors.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I've been reading a book about this. They also came and got defeated in the 1500's too. Perhaps even worse, in a way.

Sobieski is still a hero though. And he's got a vodka named after him. Gotta try it one day, get Polish calibre wasted.

Also a good ass (depending on if history-based-metal is your thing) song.

That was an important victory, together with Charles Martel at Tours, the Greek independence, the Hospitallers at Malta and the Reconquista it kept Europe out of the reach of desert barbarians.
Honorable mention to the Abyssinian(ethiopia)-Adal(Somalia) war where with the help of Cristóvão da Gama and portuguese musketeers the ethiopians were able to maintain a christian state surrounded by muslim terrorists in Africa.

 

[tramendous]

I think the reason he isn't so well known is because his empire essentially lived and died with him... and he's from central Asia, and that region is largely overlooked by popular western culture and history in general.

He also didn't have much interaction with the West and spent most of his days just murdering the locals and his nearest neighbors.

One thing i read in the book was that he was well known amongst the elites of europe. Spanish sent delegations to him and they celebrated his victory over the Ottomans.

The crazy thing is he was on his way to attack the Ming Chinese and restore the Yuan mongol dynasty when he died. That would have been a monumental confrontation.

 

[Rational Poster]

One thing i read in the book was that he was well known amongst the elites of europe. Spanish sent delegations to him and they celebrated his victory over the Ottomans.

Enemy of my enemy is my friend, etc

I mean more that he didn't try to conquer any Western nations so there is no real imprint like Genghis or Attila.

Russia in his time was still basically under Mongol rule.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I think the reason he isn't so well known is because his empire essentially lived and died with him... and he's from central Asia, and that region is largely overlooked by popular western culture and history in general.

He also didn't have much interaction with the West and spent most of his days just murdering the locals and his nearest neighbors.

I would be inclined to agree in part about the lived/died with him portion. Alexander was somewhat similar in a sense, but that ties into your point about being involved in the west.

I'd also suggest that so far as I know - and I could be wrong - nothing "special" ever came from Timur's conquests, in terms of important developments for the world, so there just isn't enough time to discuss a relatively minor and short lived Empire.

That was an important victory, together with Charles Martel at Tours, the Greek independence, the Hospitallers at Malta and the Reconquista it kept Europe out of the reach of desert barbarians.
Honorable mention to the Abyssinian(ethiopia)-Adal(Somalia) war where with the help of Cristóvão da Gama and portuguese musketeers the ethiopians were able to maintain a christian state surrounded by muslim terrorists in Africa.

I've said it before in a different thread, and I'll say it again now: the siege of Malta is one of the most insane and truly compelling things I've ever read about.

 

[tramendous]

Enemy of my enemy is my friend, etc

I mean more that he didn't try to conquer any Western nations so there is no real imprint like Genghis or Attila.

Russia in his time was still basically under Mongol rule.

Very true. Although Christopher Marlowe did write an English play about him and edgar allen poe i think also wrote a poem.

 

[Rational Poster]

I would be inclined to agree in part about the lived/died with him portion. Alexander was somewhat similar in a sense, but that ties into your point about being involved in the west.

I'd also suggest that so far as I know - and I could be wrong - nothing "special" ever came from Timur's conquests, in terms of important developments for the world, so there just isn't enough time to discuss a relatively minor and short lived Empire.


I've said it before in a different thread, and I'll say it again now: the siege of Malta is one of the most insane and truly compelling things I've ever read about.

The aftermath of Timur's empire was probably more impactful than the empire itself.

He certainly did make innovative use of elephants in war, though, which was neat.

 

[tramendous]

The aftermath of Timur's empire was probably more impactful than the empire itself.

He certainly did make innovative use of elephants in war, though, which was neat.

He also had his own version of chess called tamerlane chess because he found the normal version easy and boring.

4d chess before it was cool lol

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Back to the OP for a second, @ReAnimator Reagan said

Extra note: You are not under sharia because of the CATHOLIC CHURCH AKA Christianity
AND the FRENCH tried to stop it (oh that fucking country)

The French don't really deserve any credit, do they? Not for this at least. They were using the Ottomans to squeeze the Habsburg's on both sides.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

The aftermath of Timur's empire was probably more impactful than the empire itself.

He certainly did make innovative use of elephants in war, though, which was neat.

That's fair to say, for sure. Particularly in India and Georgia (if I recall, Timur absolutely annihilated the Georgians) and in Iran/Iraq (poor Baghdad).

The interesting thing that stands out to me from the Battle of Ankara was that Bayezid had Serbian knights fighting on his side who seemed to do well VS Timur's army before withdrawing.

You want a shit show of a history thread, talk about whether or not the Mongols/Timur would have found success invading Europe.

 

[Rational Poster]

That's fair to say, for sure. Particularly in India and Georgia (if I recall, Timur absolutely annihilated the Georgians) and in Iran/Iraq (poor Baghdad).

The interesting thing that stands out to me from the Battle of Ankara was that Bayezid had Serbian knights fighting on his side who seemed to do well VS Timur's army before withdrawing.

You want a shit show of a history thread, talk about whether or not the Mongols/Timur would have found success invading Europe.

Subutai was absolutely wrecking them before he was forced to withdraw when Ogedei died.

Seriously... Subutai's campaign into Europe might literally be the most impressive military incursion of all time.

They were fighting thousands of miles away from their central leadership against enemies they'd never encountered before and wiping them out en masse like it was a game.

 

[Rod1]

The French don't really deserve any credit, do they? Not for this at least. They were using the Ottomans to squeeze the Habsburg's on both sides.

The French alliance was one of the longer lasting of them all.

As Germany went to prove in the following centuries, they were far more of a threat to their neighbours than the Ottomans.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Subutai was absolutely wrecking them before he was forced to withdraw when Ogedei died.

Seriously... Subutai's campaign into Europe might literally be the most impressive military incursion of all time.

They were fighting thousands of miles away from their central leadership against enemies they'd never encountered before and wiping them out en masse like it was a game.

Very impressive campaign indeed, but I'm of the belief that a more unified response would have come (as it did VS the ottomans here at Vienna) and it likely would have been enough to push out the overstretched supply lines. But hey let's leave that one there because it's an endless discussion and will thoroughly derail this haha.

The French alliance was one of the longer lasting of them all.

As Germany went to prove in the following centuries, they were far more of a threat to their neighbours than the Ottomans.

Indeed it was, but it's not as though the French didn't get involved against the North Africans that were under Ottoman vassalage.

Edit: I'd also wager that the French were just as much trouble to their neighbours as the Germans were. Just the Germans are more recent

 

[fallable]

One thing i read in the book was that he was well known amongst the elites of europe. Spanish sent delegations to him and they celebrated his victory over the Ottomans.

The crazy thing is he was on his way to attack the Ming Chinese and restore the Yuan mongol dynasty when he died. That would have been a monumental confrontation.

This post kind of reminded me of the Dan Carlin podcast "Steppe Stories" where he talks about how Genghis Khan's Mongolian forces were simultaneously fighting Tuetonic Knights in Europe and Japanese Samurai in Northern East Asia, when the Tuetonic Knights nd Japanese Samurai didn't even know each other existed.

I remember hearing one reason the Mongolian's got bogged down in Europe was because they reached a part of Europe with dense forests where their cavalry was much less effective and their wasn't enough grazing for their horses. Hail to the trees!