Equality of opportunity..?

[Jack V Savage]

You know Jack, I might even give some of what you say a thought, but when the policy makers that you believe in are all part of the 1%, it doesn't translate very well. If you honestly think that those liberal politicians actually give one flying fuck about you, me, or anyone else that can't win them a vote, you are not near as bright as I thought.

I don't believe in people in politics, and I don't know or care what they care about. I'm talking about policy. I think we need to do more to promote full employment, and the GOP is actively opposing policy that would help, while Democrats have been pushing it (not very hard lately, admittedly). I think that the ACA isn't the ideal solution to problem of skyrocketing healthcare costs and the broken individual insurance market, but it's a damned sight better than the GOP "plan" of pretending that the status quo was good. Etc. Doesn't matter what's going on in anyone's head.

If in fact that was his point, it was bit of a reach. That argument isn't even relevant to todays society.

How is it a reach? Do you agree with his point (that just because it's possible to escape a bad situation, there's no problem)?

 

[ChainFlow]

Oh yes. The reason so many Americans living hardscrabble, indebted, hand to mouth, pay check to paycheck existences is a tragedy is because some of those people are our potentially "best and brightest". If we could just filter these whiz kids out and allow them to take their rightful place at the top of the economic food chain then everything would be fine. The system would be fair and the tragedy averted. (Because all these other folks, I mean, come on, they're some kind of dimwits who obviously deserve to be shit-eating poor.)

This is what American "progressivism" has become in the 21st century.

It's the carrot to show rightwingers how their own position is internally inconsistent.

"This system causes the brightest to produce great things and everyone to benefit" fails when that system excludes an unknown plurality of said great producers from ever doing so.

If they really believed in that stuff, they'd be all for social programs to lift the unfortunate out of their circumstances. They don't, and the lack of any response to this criticism shows it.

My own position is not that; I was illustrating the hypocrisy inherent in the platform of folks like Davis.

 

[OldGoat]

Oh yes. The reason so many Americans living hardscrabble, indebted, hand to mouth, pay check to paycheck existences is a tragedy is because some of those people are our potentially "best and brightest". If we could just filter these whiz kids out and allow them to take their rightful place at the top of the economic food chain then everything would be fine. The system would be fair and the tragedy averted. (Because all these other folks, I mean, come on, they're some kind of dimwits who obviously deserve to be shit-eating poor.)

This is what American "progressivism" has become in the 21st century.

As bright as you are what is your net worth? Is this a function of the Man conspiring against you or your own choices?

 

[ultramanhyata]

you seem mad.

I do get a little miffed when it comes to barbarism. And pitting human beings against one another in competition over limited resources - what we call the "free-market" - is backwards and barbaric. Capitalism is to economics what the flat earth was to geography and what witch burning was to criminal justice.

 

[kpt018]

You don't inherit debt. Unless its debt your tax dollars are paying to reduce gubmint debt. You guys can't be that clueless about personal finance.

What about the costs of end of life care, other medical expenses, funeral costs, etc.? If your parents don't have a pot to piss in, who takes care of all of that?

You're not legally on the hook for their credit card bills or anything.

Side note, you're one of the least knowledgeable posters in here about finance and economics. Ironic that you attempt to call us out.

 

[ultramanhyata]

As bright as you are what is your net worth? Is this a function of the Man conspiring against you or your own choices?

I don't think you understand that it is impossible, given the mechanics of capitalism, for every participant in a market economy to be financially well off - even if every single one of them is making the "right" choices.

You know you've hitched your wagon to a neutron star of an economic model when that model cannot even theoretically provide a life of prosperity for every participant.

 

[Jack V Savage]

It's the carrot to show rightwingers how their own position is internally inconsistent.

"This system causes the brightest to produce great things and everyone to benefit" fails when that system excludes an unknown plurality of said great producers from ever doing so.

If they really believed in that stuff, they'd be all for social programs to lift the unfortunate out of their circumstances. They don't, and the lack of any response to this criticism shows it.

My own position is not that; I was illustrating the hypocrisy inherent in the platform of folks like Davis.

I think you guys are underestimating what the average person is capable of, and the benefits of an economy at full employment. But, honestly, this all may become moot very soon. I think, because of a combination of really high inequality and technological advancement, our ability to produce stuff (goods *and* services) is going to far outstrip our consumption desires. I mean, that's currently the case because of the economic slump, but I think it will soon become permanent and will accelerate. The decoupling of productivity and wage growth we've already seen could just be the beginning, and the decline in the labor force could also accelerate a lot. If that's the future, we will need a much stronger safety net.

 

[OldGoat]

What about the costs of end of life care, other medical expenses, funeral costs, etc.? If your parents don't have a pot to piss in, who takes care of all of that?

You're not legally on the hook for their credit card bills or anything.

Side note, you're one of the least knowledgeable posters in here about finance and economics. Ironic that you attempt to call us out.

Because I don't drink the liberal vote buying Kool-aid? Sorry OldGoat isn't a fellow citizen of Bizarroworld.

 

[kpt018]

Because I don't drink the liberal vote buying Kool-aid? Sorry OldGoat isn't a fellow citizen of Bizarroworld.

No, because you don't know shit. Or you flat out troll.

 

[OldGoat]

I don't think you understand that it is impossible, given the mechanics of capitalism, for every participant in a market economy to be financially well off - even if every single one of them is making the "right" choices.

You know you've hitched your wagon to a neutron star of an economic model when that model cannot even theoretically provide a life of prosperity for every participant.

There is no economic model where 100% are in the top 10%. This isn't Lake Wobegone.

 

[OldGoat]

I think you guys are underestimating what the average person is capable, and the benefits of an economy at full employment. But, honestly, this all may become moot very soon. I think, because of a combination of really high inequality and technological advancement, our ability to produce stuff (goods *and* services) is going to far outstrip our consumption desires. I mean, that's currently the case because of the economic slump, but I think it will soon become permanent and will accelerate. The decoupling of productivity and wage growth we've already seen could just be the beginning, and the decline in the labor force could also accelerate a lot. If that's the future, we will need a much stronger safety net.

Now this is probably true. Productivity and stability could very well lead to a decoupling that would necessitate something like a Star Trek economy. Communism is a dirty word but I don't see how it would be that different from a benevolent form of communism at that point. Give it 60 years.

 

[OldGoat]

No, because you don't know shit. Or you flat out troll.

As ignorant as I am I do quite well. Must be I have been selected to be a useful pawn by the powers that be?

 

[kpt018]

As ignorant as I am I do quite well. Must be I have been selected to be a useful pawn by the powers that be?

Quite well doing what? I vaguely remember you saying you are an engineer. Does that give you special insight into finance and economics?

Lebron James does quite well but I wouldn't listen to anything he has to say outside of basketball.

 

[FIMN]

Because I don't drink the liberal vote buying Kool-aid? Sorry OldGoat isn't a fellow citizen of Bizarroworld.

Yet none of your policy suggestions have any chance of being enacted and you sound really unlikable, talking about millions of other people who you have and never will meet like they're sub human scum. If theres one person in this thread who is living in bizarro land, it's you.

 

[IDL]

Vote buying isn't a new concept. Heck the communists promised utopia.
Oldest trick in the book.

Politicians know what people want to hear. It's kinda their thing. Tapping into peoples desires in order to manipulate them. Promise what they want.

Not that they actual have any intention of delivering.. But it's not about delivering.

 

[kpt018]

Yet none of your policy suggestions have any chance of being enacted and you sound really unlikable, talking about millions of other people who you have and never will meet like they're sub human scum. If theres one person in this thread who is living in bizarro land, it's you.

If Old Goat had his way, the MW would be 10 cents an hour and those lazy bums should be lucky to get that. Of course his logic is 0.10/hour is higher than zero. MIND BLOWN.

 

[OldGoat]

Yet none of your policy suggestions have any chance of being enacted and you sound really unlikable, talking about millions of other people who you have and never will meet like they're sub human scum. If theres one person in this thread who is living in bizarro land, it's you.

Subhuman scum? That's impolite. Funny how liberals resort to ad hom attacks and other fallacies because they can't win an argument on facts or rationality. This is the reason liberals like underperforming public schools. It gives them a lock on a large portion of the populace kept deliberately ignorant. Thankfully we have Fox News to counteract the indoctrination from the liberal orthodoxy. However, if you guys get your way with illegal immigration amnesty the fight against statism and multigenerational dependency as policy will get harder.

 

[kpt018]

Thankfully we have Fox News to counteract the indoctrination from the liberal orthodoxy

Thanks for confirmation that you're trolling.

 

[OldGoat]

If Old Goat had his way, the MW would be 10 cents an hour and those lazy bums should be lucky to get that. Of course his logic is 0.10/hour is higher than zero. MIND BLOWN.

You left out the other portion of the 0 minimum wage. Not 10

 

[kpt018]

You left out the other portion of the 0 minimum wage. Not 10