Environment and the right

[trac209]

Can I just type walls of stupid like you’re doing.

Hasn’t stopped you before...

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

One country limiting air travel won't make a difference. Of course this would have to be a global initiative.

Overall though, I agree. Virtue signalling online about the horrors of climate change is just that: Virtue signalling. No one is actually going to follow through on any meaningful change.

But let's not just add ANOTHER fucking tax and not actually do anything because that will just make life harder for the 99%, have no effect on the 1% who are the actual problem and won't fix anthing.

The 1% can't really lead by example , real change will come from the ground up , there is plenty the average person can do and if enough people actually make small changes that will up to a real difference .

This doesn't need to be a left v right issue

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

The 1% can't really lead by example , real change will come from the ground up , there is plenty the average person can do and if enough people actually make small changes that will up to a real difference .

This doesn't need to be a left v right issue

The big offenders are corporations. That is partly what I mean by the 1%. The average person can live like a caveman and it won't make a dent in what corporations and the rich are doing.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

The 1% can't really lead by example , real change will come from the ground up , there is plenty the average person can do and if enough people actually make small changes that will up to a real difference .

This doesn't need to be a left v right issue

And I agree. This doesn't need to be a left vs right thing. I am offering ideas and just grtting a lot of snotty comments from lefties for the most part.

None of whom, by the way, seem to have any solutions other than paper drinking straws and another in the never ending parade of taxes.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

The big offenders are corporations. That is partly what I mean by the 1%. The average person can live like a caveman and it won't make a dent in what corporations and the rich are doing.

I believe people can make a huge difference but if you want the corporation's to change wouldn't step one be something along the lines of a carbon tax which you are against ?

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

I believe people can make a huge difference but if you want the corporation's to change wouldn't step one be something along the lines of a carbon tax which you are against ?

Because corporations historically are so honest when it comes to paying their fair share of taxes.

So explain to me how the carbon tax works. We all pay it, the government getd a bunch of free money. Now what?

 

[no fat chicks]

Because corporations historically are so honest when it comes to paying their fair share of taxes.

So explain to me how the carbon tax works. We all pay it, the government getd a bunch of free money. Now what?

If things that produce more carbon are more expensive it would reason that corporations and the public aka the free market would steer towards things that output less carbon because they will be more affordable and in higher demand. . .

 

[Fugazy]

lol. Biggest pr capita polluter on the planet (more than double of china and 9 times that of India). Second biggest overall (more than twice the pollution of India) Bang up job man. You are almost as good at protecting the environment as you are at military occupations.

Per capita is literally irrelevant when talking about pollution.

The only thing that matters is how much actual pollution is spilling out upon the earth.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

If things that produce more carbon are more expensive it would reason that corporations and the public aka the free market would steer towards things that output less carbon because they will be more affordable and in higher demand. . .

Tesla's are still far too expensive for the average person. You are just making it even harder for working class people to get by.

 

[nostradumbass]

One country limiting air travel won't make a difference. Of course this would have to be a global initiative.

Overall though, I agree. Virtue signalling online about the horrors of climate change is just that: Virtue signalling. No one is actually going to follow through on any meaningful change.

But let's not just add ANOTHER fucking tax and not actually do anything because that will just make life harder for the 99%, have no effect on the 1% who are the actual problem and won't fix anthing.

I don't think we need to do much of anything. Pollution and "emissions" rise when things are relatively new and are still wasteful, and then lower on their own as things get more efficient. Out of self-interest alone, things become more efficient as soon as it's figured out how to do it.

This is similar to the "overpopulation" alarmists. It is growing, but will max out at around 9 billion then start going down again as families get smaller in the developed world. If you start mandating drastic solutions out of alarmism, you wind up creating problems worse than the ones you were trying to solve.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

I don't think we need to do much of anything. Pollution and "emissions" rise when things are relatively new and are still wasteful, and then lower on their own as things get more efficient. Out of self-interest alone, things become more efficient as soon as it's figured out how to do it.

This is similar to the "overpopulation" alarmists. It is growing, but will max out at around 9 billion then start going down again as families get smaller in the developed world. If you start mandating drastic solutions out of alarmism, you wind up creating problems worse than the ones you were trying to solve.

Agreed. But someone asked for suggestions. I gave some.

As usual though, they had no interest in actually discussing any of it as they weren't genuinely asking in the first place.

They just want their tax because for them that's a political 'win' for their team because the leaders of their team want the tax.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

Because corporations historically are so honest when it comes to paying their fair share of taxes.

So explain to me how the carbon tax works. We all pay it, the government getd a bunch of free money. Now what?

In Canada most of the money from the new carbon tax will be refunded on our tax bills but a carbon tax is meant to encourage companies to emit less co2 , the thinking is that a company would invest in cleaning up there act rather than pay a tax .

If you are against a tax then there is cap and trade which is explained here :

https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/carbon-trading.htm

An example of how that can work is the arrangement between GM and Tesla , GM is essentially buying carbon credits from Tesla so the government isn't getting any revenue

https://electrek.co/2019/06/03/tesla-money-gm-fca-greenhouse-gas-credits/

I doubt GM enjoys giving money to Tesla so hopefully that will encourage GM to produce cleaner cars .

Another article on carbon tax/ trading from a global perspective .
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/02/climate/pricing-carbon-emissions.html


Cheers

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Proportionally it is terrible. You're burning jet fuel right into the upper atmosphere.

Still only 2%, a lot more would have to be done in order to make a real difference.

 

[hillelslovak87]

In Canada most of the money from the new carbon tax will be refunded on our tax bills but a carbon tax is meant to encourage companies to emit less co2 , the thinking is that a company would invest in cleaning up there act rather than pay a tax .

If you are against a tax then there is cap and trade which is explained here :

https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/carbon-trading.htm

An example of how that can work is the arrangement between GM and Tesla , GM is essentially buying carbon credits from Tesla so the government isn't getting any revenue

https://electrek.co/2019/06/03/tesla-money-gm-fca-greenhouse-gas-credits/

I doubt GM enjoys giving money to Tesla so hopefully that will encourage GM to produce cleaner cars .

Another article on carbon tax/ trading from a global perspective .
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/02/climate/pricing-carbon-emissions.html


Cheers

These guys care not for the arguments for these types of policies. They listen to politicians who are oil lobbyists on environmental policy and listen to corporate raiders and the rentier class on the economy. It's a regulation so it's bad, full stop.

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

These guys care not for the arguments for these types of policies. They listen to politicians who are oil lobbyists on environmental policy and listen to corporate raiders and the rentier class on the economy. It's a regulation so it's bad, full stop.

Well if you don't try and if not change someone's mind at least maybe plant a seed then why even debate anybody in these threads ?

 

[hillelslovak87]

Well if you don't try and if not change someone's mind at least maybe plant a seed then why even debate anybody in these threads ?

To plant your seed? I think you just answered your own question.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

These guys care not for the arguments for these types of policies. They listen to politicians who are oil lobbyists on environmental policy and listen to corporate raiders and the rentier class on the economy. It's a regulation so it's bad, full stop.

You don't live in Canada. They always say 'Oh this tax is going to blah blah blah' and the money just disappears. Like the tax on legal pot.

 

[hillelslovak87]

You don't live in Canada. They always say 'Oh this tax is going to blah blah blah' and the money just disappears. Like the tax on legal pot.

Oh, so that must justify basing the fiscal policy of your party on the ideology of Grover Norquist..............

 

[no fat chicks]

Tesla's are still far too expensive for the average person. You are just making it even harder for working class people to get by.

Sure, but if it's more affordable due to a tax on carbon for a company to produce either full electric or even just more efficient vehicles they will make some models people can afford.

 

[ObamaPhoneLady]

Sure, but if it's more affordable due to a tax on carbon for a company to produce either full electric or even just more efficient vehicles they will make some models people can afford.

Isn't manufacturing the batteries for those things horrible for the environment?