Elvis is ridiculously overrated

[Intermission]

He stole EVERYTHING from Roy Hamilton.

Do you demand of every new music artist to do something original? You know how hard that is? Music is a sharing of the fountain.

 

[mozfonky]

Sean Connery understood that they need him more than he needs them and was able to leverage his way into new deals and increased pay. But he had a command that they already saw in the screening process that
led him to be cast as James Bond.

Elvis, if he had a fault, had a really passive streak, avoidant of conflict. He stood up to the colonel a few times during their years together but usually he left business up to the Colonel. He also hoped that the movies would change into better films, they never did and it broke his heart. We'll never know how good an actor he could have been.

 

[mozfonky]

Then why is he at the bottom of the graph I posted....

he's been dead a lot longer than most of those people and I would venture to guess that a lot of his fans don't even really know how to listen to music on a computer anyways. I'm kinda surprised George Michael is so far down the list but Prince not even being there doesn't surprise me a bit.

Michael Jackson is getting by on the cult of personality, not just because of the scandals, but more because he put out so little music as an adult. He doesn't even have enough music put out as an adult to merit relistening to the stuff like they do. He still has fans though and boy are they crazy. So, 6 albums is enough for them, only 3 of which probably really get listened to. That's a miniscule discography for an artist of his stature. Part of that was because he was always trying to outsell thriller and the pressure slowed him down, the other part of that had to be the stress of dealing with a world that had turned against him. He only released two albums with any new music after the child molestation stuff came out, yes, that's about 16-17 years and two albums.

Be interesting to see how the movie pans out, and it'll be interesting to see the contortions the film goes to to avoid the molestation stuff or to dispute it. Again, I don't think he'll ever be cancelled but as the years go by, more and more people are coming out and expecting to get paid. Two of the accusers actually wanted a billion. The last ones to get paid off got a few million, spent it, and now want more (The Cascio family).

 

[mozfonky]

I think what you guys meant by hipster" was "contrarian".

No, I'm not a "contrarian". I give praise to most mainstream movie stars of the past. Musicians I do tend to be somewhat of a contrarian.

The Beatles are completely camp to me. I heard a song I liked when they changed their tune. But a lot of their songs are outdated. I can't even imagine the world when they were "in". The fact that they were sex symbols is pure comedy to me, too.

good music is good music and the Beatles were amongst the most prolific creators of great pop songs. Some people don't like any classical music and if they think none of it's good, it's their loss .

 

[Intermission]

Elvis, if he had a fault, had a really passive streak, avoidant of conflict. He stood up to the colonel a few times during their years together but usually he left business up to the Colonel. He also hoped that the movies would change into better films,

Was the movies why he severed ties with a number of people close to him? It was described as paranoia in the press. He didn't stand up, he got rid of his whole entourage..

 

[mozfonky]

Was the movies why he severed ties with a number of people close to him? It was described as paranoia in the press. He didn't stand up, he got rid of his whole entourage..

Elvis (or any star actually) had to cut loose lots of people over the years but if you are referring to the Memphis Mafia's firing in 1976, that's the main one and the one where they went and wrote that book that might have really hurt his career had he lived. But really, most of the people around him had been fired and rehired more than once and it was way after the movies stopped. Once again though, Elvis, avoiding conflict, did not want to fire them himself, his father did it while Elvis was away.

The paranoia was real and probably a product of that sort of fame, the people around him and not least of all the drugs. He honestly went crazy in his last few years, made a ton of mistakes which fortunately, no one died, but he genuinely lost his way as if his death does not punctuate that. That sort of fame and adulation makes people crazy.

 

[Intermission]

Elvis (or any star actually) had to cut loose lots of people over the years but if you are referring to the Memphis Mafia's firing in 1976, that's the main one and the one where they went and wrote that book that might have really hurt his career had he lived. But really, most of the people around him had been fired and rehired more than once and it was way after the movies stopped. Once again though, Elvis, avoiding conflict, did not want to fire them himself, his father did it while Elvis was away.

The paranoia was real and probably a product of that sort of fame, the people around him and not least of all the drugs. He honestly went crazy in his last few years, made a ton of mistakes which fortunately, no one died, but he genuinely lost his way as if his death does not punctuate that. That sort of fame and adulation makes people crazy.

what's the point of doing it when his prime was over?

 

[Intermission]

It does raise the question given how similiar they were, why was Hamiltons success lower than Elvis when they made the same material or less? He also has charisma. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Hamilton

 

[mozfonky]

what's the point of doing it when his prime was over?

doing what? performing? Well, for one thing, that was his only real way to make money and although those close to him think it depleted him doing all the touring and the vegas thing, it paid well and with the way Elvis threw away money, buying cars for everyone and being generous to everyone, he was not rich at the time of his death. Didn't even have a million in cash at the end of his life. Had business ventures that his doctor suckered him into and the divorce really costed a lot, he sold his catalogue to pay off Priscilla. In fact, that sort of greed, everyone seeing him as a dollar sign, that was honestly a huge factor when i read about his later life, the books don't say that but reading between the lines, just being a thing to all those people had to really break his heart. Priscilla is not the hero the biopic made her out to be, word was he was manipulated by the colonel and her father to marry her, he didn't want to, so he did and look how it turns out. That lifestyle, with everyone coming at you with an agenda has killed many of those folks.

 

[mozfonky]

It does raise the question given how similiar they were, why was Hamiltons success lower than Elvis when they made the same material or less? He also has charisma. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Hamilton

you must not be american, there was a glass ceiling for black singers in those years. Hamilton was a bit player, the guys who really deserved Elvis' spot as much or more than him was Little Richard and Chuck Berry. And depending on which day you asked them, they'd compliment Elvis or as in Little Richard's case say, "If I was white you wouldn't have heard of no one else" in response to, "would you have been bigger than Elvis?". All of those guys were amazing, a handful, less than ten but those guys really laid the foundation for all we had until hip hop took over.

 

[Intermission]

doing what? performing? Well, for one thing, that was his only real way to make money and although those close to him think it depleted him doing all the touring and the vegas thing, it paid well and with the way Elvis threw away money, buying cars for everyone and being generous to everyone, he was not rich at the time of his death. Didn't even have a million in cash at the end of his life. Had business ventures that his doctor suckered him into and the divorce really costed a lot, he sold his catalogue to pay off Priscilla. In fact, that sort of greed, everyone seeing him as a dollar sign, that was honestly a huge factor when i read about his later life, the books don't say that but reading between the lines, just being a thing to all those people had to really break his heart. Priscilla is not the hero the biopic made her out to be, word was he was manipulated by the colonel and her father to marry her, he didn't want to, so he did and look how it turns out. That lifestyle, with everyone coming at you with an agenda has killed many of those folks.

No I meant why he turned on his people when it was already downhill.

 

[Intermission]

you must not be american, there was a glass ceiling for black singers in those years. Hamilton was a bit player, the guys who really deserved Elvis' spot as much or more than him was Little Richard and Chuck Berry. And depending on which day you asked them, they'd compliment Elvis or as in Little Richard's case say, "If I was white you wouldn't have heard of no one else" in response to, "would you have been bigger than Elvis?". All of those guys were amazing, a handful, less than ten but those guys really laid the foundation for all we had until hip hop took over.

I¨m well aware of the racial problems but Joe louis became a poster boy for the US, so why couldn't a black musical artist make his mark. Was boxing the exception because of the nature of the sport?

 

[mozfonky]

No I meant why he turned on his people when it was already downhill.

Pressure, paranoia, feeling used, also money issues, he really was going broke at the time of his death and his father convinced him that was the right thing, to fire the Memphis Mafia. He wasn't happy and no one was doing anything to help him. Everyone around him was living off of him. He tried to leave the colonel, the colonel conned him telling him he'd have to pay millions to buy him out. You talk about how he didn't have any talent, I promise you, had things been handled even a little better, he'd have even more to show for his life. As it is, he did enough and no one has a perfect life.

The Memphis Mafia and the colonel and his family did a lot for him but they also cannabalized him. No, hold on, HE did that to himself. Like his cousin once said, those people were around "because that's the way Elvis wanted it".

 

[Intermission]

He reminds me of justin bieber looks wise.. and aura. at least the young one. I dont know how justin is today.

 

[mozfonky]

I¨m well aware of the racial problems but Joe louis became a poster boy for the US, so why couldn't a black musical artist make his mark. Was boxing the exception because of the nature of the sport?

Joe was a special case and a boxer, boxers were always a little ahead of the curve. We had black champions in boxing decades before they were even allowed in baseball. Also, Joe had the good fortune of being able to fight a german and beat him during WW2 and he was also the "good negro" polite, quiet and submissive and he was also clearly the best heavyweight in the world for most of his championship tenure. Unlike Jack Johnson, he was schooled to not to celebrate after he beat a white guy, not to ever be seen with white women. In short, Joe had people who loved him right from the start and they nurtured him as well as he could be nurtured. He won over the american public.

Rock and roll was a different prospect, even the white guys like Elvis pissed off the powers that be and things were done like jail or the army to deter them. chuck berry was put in jail, Jerry Lee Lewis became an overnight pariah for marrying his 13 year old cousin. Little Richard actually quit music from the pressure and became a bible student, he would actually spend the rest of his life going back and forth between god and rock. But in no universe would white teens screaming for black men like they did for Elvis, no way would that be accepted at that time.

 

[mozfonky]

He reminds me of justin bieber looks wise.. and aura. at least the young one. I dont know how justin is today.

poor Justin looks pretty traumatized today. Once again, that's not a lifestyle to envy quite frankly.

 

[Intermission]

poor Justin looks pretty traumatized today. Once again, that's not a lifestyle to envy quite frankly.

You say Elvis was too nice but couldn't it be that he was less intelligent and poorly educated? these things are interconnected. intelligent people question. lesser intelligent follow along.

I could imagine though if I became a superstar that I would be completely blindsided and follow my team to a fault, out of gratefulness and chock of it all. It's not an easy thing to deal with.

 

[mozfonky]

You say Elvis was too nice but couldn't it be that he was less intelligent and poorly educated? these things are interconnected. intelligent people question. lesser intelligent follow along.

I could imagine though if I became a superstar that I would be completely blindsided and follow my team to a fault, out of gratefulness and chock of it all. It's not an easy thing to deal with.

He was a nice guy, to a fault and what's more, he was also very insecure by nature. That's a big reason that he not only needed all those people around but why he became a star.

There was always the idea that he was just a dumb redneck and because he rarely gave interviews he didn't do much to contradict that image. I'm always surprised by how smart he is in the interviews he did give. Very self aware and also very serious about his music, even for part of the 70's. He clearly gives a lot of thought to his shows and spends a lot on the best musicians around. And reading some of the Memphis Mafia's recollections, he also was a lot more manipulative of the people around him than you'd ever think a dumb hick would be. He pretty much had his own small cult for most of his public life. That manipulation worked to hurt him too, he manipulated his circle and also women the same way. He was very persuasive, he persuaded Priscilla's family to allow her to live at Graceland with the agreement that he would eventually marry her, he didn't want to marry her when the time came. It seemed as though Elvis would promise anything to get his way and in that particular case, it was catastrophic for his finances and his later state of mind. But his manner of being manipulative to me just made him sound like he was very smart to engineer his surroundings like he did. One of his Memphis Mafia pals describes a scenario where it looked like Elvis was trying to start his own actual cult, like Jim Jones or someone. It never panned out fortunately but madmen like that are never dumb (he wasn't a madman but there are always a ton of similarities between popular rockstars and dictators or religious leaders).

He never recovered from the ego death of the divorce or the financial strain. Not that he couldn't have, that lifestyle had truly taken so much out of him that he was pretty much worn out by the end. A couple people have said that his hair was completely white at the time of his death, at 42 and of course his health wasn't what a 42 year olds should have been.

Anyway, not a dummy although the shyness, the insecurity could make him seem that way.