Elbows to the body.

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Chthon, Oct 3, 2005.

  1. Chthon

    Chthon Silver Belt

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    I was wondering how everybody else handles this. It's not something I have practiced yet, lately I have been focusing on just sparring with punches and sometimes practicing kicks with a partner, and sometimes elbows on a heavy bag but always aimed up high.

    So how does everyone here throw elbows for an opponents body? Do you move down in a similar movement to throwing a straight punch to the stomach? Is it like throwing a hook to the bottom of the ribs? Do you clinch while you do it?
     
  2. Sohei

    Sohei A Smocking gun

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    You mean elbows to the body from a stand-up fighting position only?
     
  3. Chthon

    Chthon Silver Belt

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    Yes, while standing.
     
  4. Chad Hamilton

    Chad Hamilton Amateur Fighter

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    Dont know about standing, seems tough.

    I elbowed the shit outta this guys liver in my av....but he still won...however he couldn't stand very well.
     
  5. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Chad that dude won? Shit man I thought you bashing his fucking face in there was the end of the fight. I'da been pissed to lose that bout.

    Anywho, elbows TO the body, a VERY underrated technique but rightfully so because it's difficult to get into optimum positioning to execute them without committing every cardinal sin in smart stand-up. But there is a way to do it I think, something we used to practice a lot in Muay Thai. I think the only maximum-effect time to do it is from the clinch, but you have to go back and look at that thread I did on the Muay Thai clinch because there's some general rules to basic clinching that will keep you from getting killed (kneed to the face, guillotine choked, Pro Wrestling DDT'ed lol, or upper-cutted) when attempting elbows to the body. I'll give you the how, and the how to practice.

    The how - you do have to bend your knees as if you're throwing punches to the body, of course. But you also have to be significantly closer if you want to throw a clean 'bow without leaning over and exposing your face and chin. What I used to do is execute a fast-hard shot on the head or arms for a clinch (if none of you knows how to shoot the head or arms, learn some basic Greco-Roman Wrestling, not everything is flippin' collar-and-elbow, you can shoot in quickly and catch your opponent off-guard). Now, you don't just bend your knees at this point and start firing off body elbows. You could if you think your opponent is dumb enough to just stand there and get blasted. But few people are. What I used to do is work up-AND-down in my clinches. Too many guys only focus on knees or takedown, or upper-cuts in the clinch. Very few guys realize you can use the clinch to bully around your opponent if either you're stronger or know how to get better leverage. In football we used to practice hitting up under the pads, pushing a guy bigger than you by putting your hands right at the bottom of his rib-cage and pressing up and back. If he's standing taller than you and not leaning on you, this will ALWAYS push him back. You can push him to either side by getting into his arm-pits, twisting your knees in whatever direction you want him to go, then jerking your upper-body to match your lower-body while maintaining a tight grip on either his arms or neck. He'll have no choice but to follow.

    So with that in mind here's what I used to do for body-elbows with maximum effect. I used to do this in High School Wrestling as well because well, I was a cheater. lol If you bend your knees and get lower, and are moving him around a bit because you have better leverage, if you get him trying to do somthing with your head, lower your arms to shoulder level and step close, almost lunging, twist your hips and fire the elbow. If you're using your right arm aim at his left side, because even if he tries to turn, you'll end up catching him right in the middle of his torso of clean on the right side right on the rib-cage. Against the cage in a clinch is a WONDERFUL time to do this. If you really want to bust his ribs up and make him completely unable to defend it, while you're clinching get up under one of his arms with yours. If you're using your right arm get up under his right arm. Let him relax for a second like that, try to get your hips close to his, if he has his ass way back this won't work (you could land something else though, like an elbow upper-cut, which people never use but is a Hell of a strike to land), but what you do is when he's relaxed thinking you are at a loss for what to do, quickly raise your left arm and throw his right arm over your head, right when you raise your left-arm cock your right-arm back and as soon as his arm clears the top of your head BLAST your right-elbow into his rib-cage. You have to be some kind-of fast to do this, but if you can it'll REALLY suck for him. Now I mentioned I used to do this to guys in Wrestling. Wanna know why? Because right when their breath escapes them from taking an elbow in their completely un-defended ribs and I hear "oof!"...guess what. You lock your arms around their waist (because now their back is almost exposed to you), stand-up straight, pop your hips, and as Rampage would say...slam them on they mo'fuggin' head.

    Guys would bitch up a storm when I did it, but I got that elbow so fast no one would ever have seen it. lol

    Now, in-terms of practicing this, it's pretty easy. You can do it on your heavy-bag but you have to step-in so close to your bag that it's leaning either on your shoulder or arms the way an opponent would if you were clinching. This will help because the bag will react like an opponent who has just taken a hard elbow to the body. You push it off a little, bend your knees, throw the 'bow, and the bag will fall over and lean right back on you. This is what opponents do.

    You can also have one of your training partners wear the body-vest and work on this. I would incorporate it into focus-mitt drills though. Have your partner wear focus mitts, body-vest, and headgear, practice combo'ing into the clinch, once in the clinch, practice throwing the 'bow after throwing one of their arms over their head. Alternate sides as well, so you have two guns to fire this with instead of just one.
     
  6. Sohei

    Sohei A Smocking gun

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    My 2 cents: I dont think elbows to the body in a standing position would be a very decisive technique. Maybe if you hit someone in the sternum but otherwise I think in a clinch knees to the body would be more effective and using elbows could leave you vulnerable to being punched, kneed, thrown or taken down yourself. But it probably would not be anticipated by your opponent though so it might be somewhat effective.
     
  7. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Not if you execute them in the manner I gave. And I don't see how knees are any less vulnerable to takedowns. It's relatively easy to time knees, and catch them, scoring a takedown on principal because the dude is on one leg afterall.
     
  8. Sohei

    Sohei A Smocking gun

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    True but a knee is a more decisive technique and more worth the takedown risk than whittling away at someones body with elbows.
     
  9. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I don't think I made one thing clear, and that's the specific targeting of the body-'bow from the clinch position (my fault). Whenever I landed it, I landed it just under the lowest rib on the rib-cage, or right in the 'plexus. Usually it took the wind out of the dude, which gave me time to either score a takedown or come up top for facial 'bows. That sound a little more worthwhile?
     
  10. Sohei

    Sohei A Smocking gun

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    Yeah I would agree with that assessment, especially the solar plexus/sternum/xiphoid area. Thats really the only place Ive ever hurt someone with an elbow on the body in practice.
     
  11. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Rock. Glad we could agree. Oh yeah and for you guys questioning your ability to shoot the head (because afterall the motherfucker's looking RIGHT at you), here's a dirty little trick I used to do. Slap his knee. Shoot in like you're going for a single-leg on the lead leg and slap his lead knee. Instinct will make him jolt down to sprawl, you come up quick and can lock-on a head-clinch no problem.

    The reverse also works. You want to shoot a single leg? Slap the mofo's forehead then shoot the single-leg. A poke in the eye would work better bit it's too blatant. The tricks sound stupid, but train them up to where you can do them in the blink of an eye and watch the magic that happens. lol
     
  12. setups are setups. i'm always partial to a hand on the opponents head. dont lean on them unless you're clinching but just put your fingers high on his forehead, ether blocking his sight with your palm or just aggrovating him. if he swats it away switch hands until he's focused away on that bullshit. shoot and you're deep.

    this keeps him measured at the distance of your choice and you can dictate how you want the stand up to be. you can even drop to you knees and back up in a crappy attempt and he might feel more comfortable and not worry about your shot. this makes him stand a little higher and continue fucking with your hands.

    if he's at finger tip reach he cant really land much offense. he could kick but you've got the room to evade or block, but most dont want to kick with your hand so close. so, you clinch when and how you want to clinch. make him lean forward and try to put weight on the top of his head. he'll melt into shitty posture and you shot your clinch with dominant levarage and go for the bullshit KK was talking about.
     
  13. Chthon

    Chthon Silver Belt

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    Thangs Kabuki, some good stuff right there. You always give thorough answers to questions on here.
     
  14. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    If I'm gonna do it might as well do it right. Plus this is a technique I love. 'Bows can quickly end a fight if done properly. And in the streets there's almost nothing as effective as a quick back-elbow to the chops if the guys is just standing there talking shit. And grabbing a guy's shirt or jacket and violently yanking him into hard elbows to the face. Fun shit.
     
  15. EddNg

    EddNg Blue Belt

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    Very informative post Kabuki! Good job!

    I've never thrown elbows to the body standing, I do when I'm in the opp's guard or in side control but would never have thought about throwing them standing. Will definately give this a try.
     
  16. Matt Thornton

    Matt Thornton Amateur Fighter

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    I think the Muay Thai Boran technique is called Chawa Sad Hok, where you slip a punch and elbow to the ribs.

    Elbows are really freaking powerful if you do 'em right. One of those to the ribs, if it doesn't break them, will at least take some wind out of him, maybe enough to drop his hands and open him up for a hook.
     
  17. jav1

    jav1 Brown Belt

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    ethan's lowkicks are scary, for his fans.
     
  18. VampireMonk

    VampireMonk Black Belt

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    why do that when you can throw a knee to the body?
     
  19. VampireMonk

    VampireMonk Black Belt

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    I think elbow to upper body is ok. collar bones, neck.

    But you know how Thaiboxers like to keep things efficient.

    hands take care of upperbody, legs take care of lower body,
    for defense or attack,

    now we have seen plenty of examples that break this logic.
    (Remy & Kaoklai's flying kicks & knees)

    so if I was to use an elbow to his lower body, I'd use it like if I was shooting in,
    just like Remy needs to fly up, I would fly down.
    No staying there with knee bent, Not for me, sorry.
     
  20. Chad Hamilton

    Chad Hamilton Amateur Fighter

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    Indeed.

    Must keep hands up.
     

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