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Easy Rule Question

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by bagelgod, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. bagelgod

    bagelgod Green Belt

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    Is the suplex allowed in NAGA/GQ/ADCC/IBJJF? The first three seems like a "yes", but the last one I'm unsure about.

    Thanks fellows.
     
  2. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    You can do any takedown that lands your opponent safely on the mat. If it isn't legal in wrestling or judo, it probably isn't legal in a tournament.
     
  3. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    It's legal in IBJJF too, I don't see anything in the rules prohibiting it. People say that "slams are illegal" in IBJJF but the rules only say "slam from guard."
     
  4. bjjaz

    bjjaz Got the Rock...Time to Roll

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    I have seen someone duck under to the back and suplex the person, but you have to hold on to them for the most part, its not a WWF wrestling slam, but if you pick them up, suplex while still controlling, I see no problem w/ it.
     
  5. a dead stick

    a dead stick Orange Belt

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    Apparently you can get away with slamming people from guard as long as you drop them without taking a step forward, and make it appear like you dropped unintentionally, under IBJJF rules. :icon_neut
    Or maybe that ref just had it in for me..... :icon_lol:
     
  6. An end for

    An end for Purple Belt

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    The word I've seen used many times to describe the banned slams is "bate-estaca", or "piledriver". So I think a good rule of thumb would be avoiding anything that could look like it came straight from a pro wrestling match and could make someone fall on his head. I haven't heard about suplexes being banned anywhere, though.
     
  7. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    I think you should be allowed to "fall" if somebody jumps guard on you. I mean literary if somebody jumps up and takes guard on you and you remain standing you should be able to just not struggle to remain standing

    Likewise if you lift somebody when they triangle you, or the ref should call it.

    The mount is given point because of potential of damage if it was a real valetudo fight. lifting somebody so you are in position to rampage them should to!, either that or let me fall-slam them at least
     
  8. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    This happens every time I jump guard on an opponent in competition. I am tall and over 90 kilos and I pull hard on the collar grip when I jump guard, so my opponent always falls forward to his knees, I've never had a guy stay standing when I jumped guard on him.

    Totally legal, you'll only get called for slamming when your opponent jumps guard on you if you really load up and slam him into the mat instead of just falling forward.

    I've seen a real slam in competition, a black belt from my team was triangling another black belt and he didn't want to tap, he would rather lose by DQ, so he did a full-on Slampage Jackson on the guy, it was bad. The guy on my team who got slammed didn't get knocked unconscious, but he got the wind knocked out of him real good.

    And then the guy who did the slam went and got changed into his referee shirt and ref'd the brown and purple belt matches, WTF?!
     
  9. a dead stick

    a dead stick Orange Belt

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    Yeah, except I pulled guard by putting my foot in the hip and sitting out for an arm-bar, which he countered but still fell to one knee, then I pulled him down into closed guard.
    It was a smooth transition to the ground, I don't jump guard with both legs like a savage, my instructor teaches us not to do stuff like that as he feels it is unrealistic in a real situation. (ie on the street you'd smash your back on the concrete)

    I broke his posture right down until his head was on my chest, then he grabbed double underhooks and stood back up. There was no reason or strategy behind it that I could see except that he wanted to slam me. The dude was a wrestler. It was my first competition and I wasn't expecting that, so I froze for a second and failed to capitalize on the opportunity to work a collar choke or kimura.
    He knocked half the wind out of me with the "legal slam" and the match did not go my way after that.
     
  10. bjjaz

    bjjaz Got the Rock...Time to Roll

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    I have seen someone sprawl as another jumped guard on him, didn't end well for the guy on bottom.
     
  11. bjjaz

    bjjaz Got the Rock...Time to Roll

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    Its also funny listening to (sorry) mostly white belts pull guard at tournaments and all the smacks you hear of people literally back flopping.
     
  12. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

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    I am not going to fall to my knees next time it happens:icon_chee

    sorta like a front breakfall

    the slam story is funny as hell
     
  13. Auspex

    Auspex Brown Belt

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    I agree with restarting if I can pick the guy up above my waist.

    It pretty much says I can blow the back of your head wide open if I want.

    Hell, and even give me a point or two for the escape :)
     
  14. Auspex

    Auspex Brown Belt

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    I REALLY like the idea of this.
     
  15. a dead stick

    a dead stick Orange Belt

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    Personally I think that is going to far, because it doesn't end there and the threat of a slam shouldn't cause a stop in the action or the assumption that the person about to perform the slam is automatically in a dominant position, when there are options.

    In my case I could have chosen to jump off him when he picked me up ( I didn't because then I would have been standing chest to chest with him having double underhooks and I would have just ended up being taken back down into side control) and if I had been more prepared to attack with submissions I potentially could have held on to a choke or kimura through the "drop slam" to get a finish.

    I'd rather just see slams made legal. I was mad because I thought it was cheating a bit, but if it was a legal strategy I'd have no issues.
     
  16. Auspex

    Auspex Brown Belt

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    To rephrase, I'm a strong dude for 170lbs and have zero problem picking up guys if I'm in someones guard or being triangled. If I can pick you and slam you back down, I run a pretty high risk of giving you a head injury in a sport where there shouldn't be head injuries.

    I don't think they should allow slams, but if I can show that my position is about to, or able to cause severe harm, without the ability for them to tap, then I stay stop/restart.

    Either that, or allow slams and if you don't leg go of a hold when someone has you picked up then the guy on the bottom accepts all responsiblity for what's gonna happen.
     
  17. Jimmy Cerra

    Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

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    You can slam to escape submissions at the ADCC no-gi professional divisions.
     
  18. Auspex

    Auspex Brown Belt

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    I guess I'll have to quit going to these damn backyard events and go big time!
     
  19. Gerbiljiujitsu

    Gerbiljiujitsu Purple Belt

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    back in 2004 or 2005 (I cant recall which year) I went to the worlds and I saw a blue belt duck under and then belly back suplex a guy four times. He never let go of the grip and it was vicious.

    The rules change, but better yet, how the rules are enforced changed (often between one referee and the next) so I'm not sure what is legal and what is not in the suplex aspect. I can tell you that this guy did not get DQed.
     

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