DVT and BJJ..

[armbar360]

Interesting. In my darkest moments that's what I always thought I would have done if they put me on coumadin or anticoagulants for life. I guess in the end life is yours, you fully know the risks and you aren't hurting anybody else, so..

A couple of questions if you do not mind. Do you still roll full resistance? Was your doctor ok with your decision?

i have competed while on thinners. my md was ok with it suprisingly but i think he knew my mind was made up. i still roll full speed ,do competion classes ect im 48 and i roll with mostly younger guys still holding my own. tore my bicep at new years and had surgery but im gettin back slowly.. i started grappling when i was 5yrs old so its hard to let it go...by the way , Im on thinners for life.

 

[Wilson78]

I just saw the specialist today and had the testing done. I don't know if my DVT was caused by repetitive bruising of the shins from guard passes or from straining the triangle choke. I am on Xarelto for the next 5 months. The doctor told me to take up swimming . I want to get back at it but don't want another clot or internal bleeding. Should I completely avoid the mat or can I at least pass the technique without rolling? Thoughts?

Hey! I don't come to Sherdog as often as in the past (a little bit more lately, tbh), but I usually check here and there especially thinking about this thread and people that may verse in this situation, cause I remember being so alone at the time of this distressing problem yet so desperate to have some fellow Bjj guy giving me some first hand answers and advices.. so here I am.

By the way, back to ending 2012, I had a first DVT, back to training after 6 months of coumadin (a warfarin based anticoagulant if you are not familiar with it), had another one just a month and half later, then basically after another anticoagulant cycle and the clot solved for a second time I started to train again, COMPLETELY avoiding triangle chokes that put stress on my left calf (where the DVT developed, I 99% abandonded triangle chokes entirely anyway, even on my sane calf, pretty sure that holding triangles for dear life and having your cald deal with that kind of pressure IN COMBINATION with the other factors I'll list later did it to me), taking folic acid every day, hydratating myself properly and supplementing with tons of vitamins and minerals, and from that day on since today (actually I've injured my shoulder in december and I still can't train but it's another matter altogheter) I had zero problems related even by training at 110% (finally took my purple belt last summer too).
It's worth to say that at the time of the DVT I had homocysteine levels quite high (from there the folic acid prescription) as well as the factor VIII, then in a matter of months they both came down to normal levels. I was also overly stressed and having a shitty, strict diet trying to compete at a weight category below mine, which may also if not certainly have contributed as well.

I'd like to know where you developed your dvt and how did this episode went down? What your doctor told you? Of course you need to see a specialist, didn't they already gave you an anticoagulant therapy of some kind?

Get back to me whenever you want!

P.S.I remember being completely destroyed at the time (being already a depressed person myself, Bjj was basically a too vital part of my life to simply give it up), so I really don't know if you verse in the same blind desperation I was at the time, feel free to write me even in PM.
Oh and forgive my bad english! Ask if I wasn't clear somewhere.

 

[Solidus Snake]

I just saw the specialist today and had the testing done. I don't know if my DVT was caused by repetitive bruising of the shins from guard passes or from straining the triangle choke. I am on Xarelto for the next 5 months. The doctor told me to take up swimming . I want to get back at it but don't want another clot or internal bleeding. Should I completely avoid the mat or can I at least pass the technique without rolling? Thoughts?

I don't know mate, you aren't saying really much about your clot to know if you can really do some technique. If your doctor told you no, I'd stick with it.

 

[Wilson78]

I don't know mate, you aren't saying really much about your clot to know if you can really do some technique. If your doctor told you no, I'd stick with it.

The pain from the clot was gone in about four days. I have since returned to the gym and lifting as I did previous to the incident. I haven't gone for the second ultrasound yet, so I don't know if the clot has dissolved or not. I will likely have the ultrasound in July. I have been drinking more water, wearing compression socks and changing my diet. Do you think that you acquired yours through straining for a triangle? Like you, BJJ was such an outlet for me. I am really missing it. Did the hematologist test your homocysteine levels? Should I request that or is that in the normal work up? Have you heard about MTHFR ? Someone was telling me that I should be tested for that as well.

 

[Solidus Snake]

The pain from the clot was gone in about four days. I have since returned to the gym and lifting as I did previous to the incident. I haven't gone for the second ultrasound yet, so I don't know if the clot has dissolved or not. I will likely have the ultrasound in July. I have been drinking more water, wearing compression socks and changing my diet. Do you think that you acquired yours through straining for a triangle? Like you, BJJ was such an outlet for me. I am really missing it. Did the hematologist test your homocysteine levels? Should I request that or is that in the normal work up? Have you heard about MTHFR ? Someone was telling me that I should be tested for that as well.

Well it's good you are already back to gym and lifting if you ask me. The changes to the diet are good too.. reacting is important both mentally and phisically.

I described precisely how I acquired mine some posts above.. I'm practically sure that it was the compression from the triangles and some other specific condition that combined made me develop the clot.

I'm not american so the medical procedures may be a little different here.. I think asking to your doctor for that won't hurt, you have every right to be informed the more possible.

 

[Wilson78]

Did you cut back on your training or the amount of times that you roll per week? I am going to avoid triangles as well.

 

[Solidus Snake]

Did you cut back on your training or the amount of times that you roll per week? I am going to avoid triangles as well.

I trained really cautiously in the first months after all the ordeal, more for being afraid than else, so I wasn't training more than 3 times a week. I've even kept the medical sock on during rolling, for some small time (luckily nobody made particularly fun of me ).

After a good six months I started to train again 4-5 times a week (or even more when I could) but as I said the time was more a personal choice out of fear than else. I think that theoretically it's better to give the body some time to adapt but in the end it comes down to the confidence you have and how comfortable you are at the moment.

 

[OpenSamurai]

Hey guys.

Unfortunately, I was diagnosed with this stuff some months ago.
Basically, just to briefly explain what deep vein thrombosis (DVT) is.. it's the blood clotting in a deep vein. Of the leg, in my case. After a training session (I train Bjj, as you can deduct from the title) I sensed some deep pain in my calf and some insensibility in my foot.. and surprise surprise, the ecodoppler gave me this unexpected diagnosis.

It's still unknown if in my case it was caused by genetic conditions or by some other reason, there are literally too other much. And since now I'm under anticoagulants (coumadin) for at least another month before the next check, there is no way to know anyway until I'll complete the cure (it could easily go up to other additionally three months or even more, no way to know it now again).

Anyway.. let's leave aside for a moment the depression from all this situation and the horrible sense that my Bjj path may be already arrived at the end.. I just want to know if some of you guys gone through this stuff and came out of it. Or not. Whatever.. I would like to just hear if somebody that trains bjj (or wrestling and judo of course) have/had/is having some experience with this condition and would like to share.

Thanks.

Hey guys.

Unfortunately, I was diagnosed with this stuff some months ago.
Basically, just to briefly explain what deep vein thrombosis (DVT) is.. it's the blood clotting in a deep vein. Of the leg, in my case. After a training session (I train Bjj, as you can deduct from the title) I sensed some deep pain in my calf and some insensibility in my foot.. and surprise surprise, the ecodoppler gave me this unexpected diagnosis.

It's still unknown if in my case it was caused by genetic conditions or by some other reason, there are literally too other much. And since now I'm under anticoagulants (coumadin) for at least another month before the next check, there is no way to know anyway until I'll complete the cure (it could easily go up to other additionally three months or even more, no way to know it now again).

Anyway.. let's leave aside for a moment the depression from all this situation and the horrible sense that my Bjj path may be already arrived at the end.. I just want to know if some of you guys gone through this stuff and came out of it. Or not. Whatever.. I would like to just hear if somebody that trains bjj (or wrestling and judo of course) have/had/is having some experience with this condition and would like to share.

Thanks.

 

[OpenSamurai]

Solidus snake,

I was just diagnosed with a massive DVT in my upper right arm. I'm freaking out. I roll everyday, well 5 days a week. I eat, sleep, and breath jiujitsu. I'm completely devastated after learning about my DVT. I can't stand the thought of not ever training agin. I'm currently on Xarelto to breakup the clot and to make sure I don't die (PE). Hematologist/oncologist appointment in two weeks. I also have an appointment to see a vascular surgeon about thoracic outlet syndrome as the cause of my DVT and possibly removing the blood clot. I've never had an injury on my right arm and I don't travel so I'm freaked out as to the "how and why" of my DVT. We will see with the blood work says...
Thank you for your post. I'm so happy to know you got back on the mats. You've given me a glimmer of hope.

Cheers,

 

[Chungungo]

My apologies for digging this thread out of the graveyard but I wanted to see if there was any more information people could throw in that I might not be aware of.

I'm also 28, as the OP of this thread was at the time (apparently a shitty age for blood clots or something) I was diagnosed with a clot in my leg after back to back to back extended travel flights (essentially going about 3/4ths of the way around the world in the span of a week or so including two 17 hour flights), got diagnosed while in Eastern Europe and they couldn't find anything in my lungs so they let me fly back to the U.S.; turns out when I started coughing up blood on the plane back to the U.S. they may have made a mistake.

Luckily made it from the airport to the ER (and then got quarantined for ebola because I had been in West Africa and was coughing up blood...) and was told I had some small clots in both of my lungs and minor pulmonary infarction (little bit of my lungs died from the clots but luckily it's not something permanent); was hospitalized for a little while and then released on blood thinners.

I was instructed not to do essentially anything but walk as far as exercise goes, which has driven me pretty insane considering I'm used to working out every day and training every night, was cleared to lift at one point and then told not to until this morning when I was able to get back to the gym again at least.

Hopefully I'll be able to get back on the mats and resume training after coming off of the blood thinner in January (I tested negative for any sort of clotting disorder, the clot was caused just by the mixture of ridiculously long flights and dehydration most likely).

Attempting to get back into shape sucks something fierce though, any advice on this or experience with it would be pretty great.

Just a note, if you ever have pain in a leg that feels like a muscle cramp and develop any sort of chest pain, see a doctor, I had no swelling at all but it felt like I had pulled my calf and hurt my ribs, turns out googling those symptoms together and getting to an ER can save your life.

My experience was similar but was a phlebitis, just superficial cloth and because I didn´t take my boots from Canada to Southamerica but yoga helped and while I am overweight, not pure fat, I train everyday so I prefered dying if it was a deep vein thrombosis ...

My advice for the future of the thread creator and everyone who listens is take your boots off in long travels !!!!!
Seems logic but I didn´t do it :/

 

[Chungungo]

Solidus snake,

I was just diagnosed with a massive DVT in my upper right arm. I'm freaking out. I roll everyday, well 5 days a week. I eat, sleep, and breath jiujitsu. I'm completely devastated after learning about my DVT. I can't stand the thought of not ever training agin. I'm currently on Xarelto to breakup the clot and to make sure I don't die (PE). Hematologist/oncologist appointment in two weeks. I also have an appointment to see a vascular surgeon about thoracic outlet syndrome as the cause of my DVT and possibly removing the blood clot. I've never had an injury on my right arm and I don't travel so I'm freaked out as to the "how and why" of my DVT. We will see with the blood work says...
Thank you for your post. I'm so happy to know you got back on the mats. You've given me a glimmer of hope.

Cheers,

Look I am not a doctor but something I saw is that the first night in my case I had terrible fevers (was a superficial cloth caused by a bacteria so is not the same as DVT but has some things in common) but my body defeated them, next I went´to the doctor who gave me the antibiotics treatment and things were slowing down but at the same time I knew about a kid who got an arm like a bodybuilder and he was in the hospital getting antibiotic directly to the veins and seemed that the body fought back and those were not working !!!!!!

So all I say is to be careful sometimes to go right away with heavy medication , I lke to think that sometimes the body can defend himself ... Sorry this was a little bit weird but I wish well from the heart...

 

[Solidus Snake]

Solidus snake,

I was just diagnosed with a massive DVT in my upper right arm. I'm freaking out. I roll everyday, well 5 days a week. I eat, sleep, and breath jiujitsu. I'm completely devastated after learning about my DVT. I can't stand the thought of not ever training agin. I'm currently on Xarelto to breakup the clot and to make sure I don't die (PE). Hematologist/oncologist appointment in two weeks. I also have an appointment to see a vascular surgeon about thoracic outlet syndrome as the cause of my DVT and possibly removing the blood clot. I've never had an injury on my right arm and I don't travel so I'm freaked out as to the "how and why" of my DVT. We will see with the blood work says...
Thank you for your post. I'm so happy to know you got back on the mats. You've given me a glimmer of hope.

Cheers,

Hey mate. Sorry but I was a bit busy. How is it going with the dvt? What did the doctors told you?

Unfortunately it's a rare, and dangerous conditions, but I think mine and other stories might give you some hope. After all if Bjj is as important for you as it is for me, I don't see why you, or I, should just abandon it without fighting !

 

[Wilson78]

Hey mate. Sorry but I was a bit busy. How is it going with the dvt? What did the doctors told you?

Unfortunately it's a rare, and dangerous conditions, but I think mine and other stories might give you some hope. After all if Bjj is as important for you as it is for me, I don't see why you, or I, should just abandon it without fighting !

I was just diagnosed with my second DVT. All of my genetic factor testing was negative. The doctors have told me that "I may just clot for unknown reasons". I haven't excepted this reason because I believe that there is a cause for everything. They want to put me on thinners for life.... something else I don't want to except at this point. All of my blood work is normal as well.

 

[Solidus Snake]

I was just diagnosed with my second DVT. All of my genetic factor testing was negative. The doctors have told me that "I may just clot for unknown reasons". I haven't excepted this reason because I believe that there is a cause for everything. They want to put me on thinners for life.... something else I don't want to except at this point. All of my blood work is normal as well.

Whoa man I'm sorry to hear that. This truly sucks balls and for what I know unfortunately it is possible that one clots for still unknown medical reasons in the sense that there may be something like the other factors that science still hasn't covered.

But as I think I've already said in this thread honestly my doctor at the time seemed little interested in discovering the causes that could have been connected with my training/general situation but just "cure" me and get it done with it.

Did you get back to training after your first episode? How much? Was this clot again in your leg or elsewhere? How was your diet at the time? Did you just kept on holding your leg in position for dear life in half guard or triangles or closed guard? Did you take the airplane or were in some other situation that could have triggered it? Keep in mind that I'm not a doctor and I would never give you medical advices, but those are all the questions I've asked myself at the time.. if it is possible I'd advice you to search for another blood doctor, maybe somebody that is experienced in episodes like this one in athletes (not easy to find one, but if there is one in my country, I'm sure that in the US you could find one perhaps?). But sometimes you'll just have to do what you can by yourself..

 

[rodrigopy]

Hello guys,

I was diagnosed twice with dvt, first time it was a massive dvt in my right leg, second time it was in my left leg(it was very small and I almost didn’t feel any pain). I am a blue belt and I’ve been doing bjj since 2013. In both times my doctor made a lot of tests but all results were negative, so in theory I don’t have any blood clotting disorder. I told my doctor that in both times my dvt appeared after a hard training. Now I’m off of blood thinners and the question that comes all nights to my mind is if I could get back to bjj. I really miss it but I don’t want to have a dvt for third time. What would you do guys if you were in my position?

 

[Solidus Snake]

Hello guys,

I was diagnosed twice with dvt, first time it was a massive dvt in my right leg, second time it was in my left leg(it was very small and I almost didn’t feel any pain). I am a blue belt and I’ve been doing bjj since 2013. In both times my doctor made a lot of tests but all results were negative, so in theory I don’t have any blood clotting disorder. I told my doctor that in both times my dvt appeared after a hard training. Now I’m off of blood thinners and the question that comes all nights to my mind is if I could get back to bjj. I really miss it but I don’t want to have a dvt for third time. What would you do guys if you were in my position?

I'd keep going as I effectively did. But I think it should be a very personal and mindful decision given the horrific, tragic consequences DVT can have if you have one and something goes wrong with it.

May I ask you if you revised the whole thread? You said you had DVT after hard training sessions,is it possible you recognize yourself in one of the scenarios I described in the last paragraph of the post above yours?

 

[Slo Motion]

Hey.
I've also have 2 DVT and PE episodes, the first in 2014 and the second around a year later. The first there was no clear reason, the second happened after a flight. Both occurred while I was heavily into cycling and MTB'ing and was doing a rather large amount of training (up to 500km a week on the bike).
Both times I got back into training fairly quickly though the first few months were a bit sketchy - pretty much felt like I was having a heart attack and training was a struggle. Both times I went on to complete the events I was training for, one of them was 2 weeks in the Alps and Pyrenees, riding for over 6hrs each day. almost 2000kms. I say this just to show that a DVT diagnosis is not the end of the world!
I am on Xarelto for life now and to be honest it does not affect me at all. I do all the things I want to do. I ride mountain bikes and motorbikes, do BJJ. There are some additional risks, mainly around head injuries but I'm as sensible as I can be. Honestly though, my life has changed very little, I just take a little red pill every evening before bed.

I've only been doing BJJ for a year and if I'm honest I haven't told my Dr. I'm due to see him this month and I will mention it. But honestly I don't imagine he will have a problem with it. I'm a total dad hobbyist, I roll for fun and don't compete. I think the risk of head injury must be lower than compared with cycling/mtb'ing. And at the end of the day I'm OK with the risks. Being on the medication I feel protected against clots at least.

 

[sirvejlance]

Thank god for this thread.. Such a relief to read about others in similar situations.

I am also on blood thinners for blood cloths, 2 times in my legs, super fiscial & the latest was a deep one in my stomach, portal vein trombosis i think its called. I have apc resistance Gene. Its not a big factor but apart from that I have some in my family, but they were older when they got it. I take heparin shots now, but Will change to pills anyday now.

anyways I never thought about that it could be from triangles, intressting. It was one of my favorite subs. I believe I might have gotten the stomach one either by knee on belly or when I put a ski pole in my own stomach by accident, I adjusted my boots while going pretty fast downhill and the pole got stuck in the snow and rammed me in the belly... idiot thing..
I also sit 8hours still at work.. and never hydrate...

At the moment I dont train bjj, which sucks.. but Im gonna ease back into it by teaching basic classes (I have a brown belt)

But how has it been for you guys, have you been able to roll again on blood thinners?

 

[Solidus Snake]

Thank god for this thread.. Such a relief to read about others in similar situations.

I am also on blood thinners for blood cloths, 2 times in my legs, super fiscial & the latest was a deep one in my stomach, portal vein trombosis i think its called. I have apc resistance Gene. Its not a big factor but apart from that I have some in my family, but they were older when they got it. I take heparin shots now, but Will change to pills anyday now.

anyways I never thought about that it could be from triangles, intressting. It was one of my favorite subs. I believe I might have gotten the stomach one either by knee on belly or when I put a ski pole in my own stomach by accident, I adjusted my boots while going pretty fast downhill and the pole got stuck in the snow and rammed me in the belly... idiot thing..
I also sit 8hours still at work.. and never hydrate...

At the moment I dont train bjj, which sucks.. but Im gonna ease back into it by teaching basic classes (I have a brown belt)

But how has it been for you guys, have you been able to roll again on blood thinners?

Man, you sit 8 hours without hydrating yourself, with vein problems precedents and even, for a small as it is, a gene factor? Sounds like a super bad idea.

You should bring water with you at work, drink generally at least 2 liters during the day (more if you work out of course) and start to get up and move yourself every tot time during those work hours, to let that damn blood not stagnate. Hope from now on you'll start pay attention to this stuff.

Regarding Bjj.. you should ask your doctor first of all.. having said that, imho doing just calm, very controlled technique should be fine, hard rolling not.. I've heard about people rolling and even doing randori on anticoagulants but the risks (unless some new miracolous medicine didn't came out in the meantime) are kinda high, if you know you'll be clean of AC after some fixed time I'd wait for that to expire before going hard again (as I did), if it's for life or something educate yourself about what you are going through in case something bad happens and take a decision that will make you feel in peace with yourself.