Dustin Denes being mean with the N/S kimura

[Spazzmaster]

Here's Dustin "Clean" Denes at Mike Fowler's gym showing some painful details about imposing the kimura from top north-south. Elbow pressure in the armpit, ouch.

 

[Spazzmaster]

It seems like several instructors have been uploading videos on this attack position.

Last week, Atos black belt Tim Sledd put up his arm triangle series from the N/S kimura.

 

[Spazzmaster]

And here is Carlson lineage black belt Eric Burdo of Richmond VA showing his variations from the N/S kimura position...

 

[kimble09]

Here's Dustin "Clean" Denes at Mike Fowler's gym showing some painful details about imposing the kimura from top north-south. Elbow pressure in the armpit, ouch.

I'de like to know how common this type of "technique presentation" is around the rest of the bjj world...what i mean is, it seems like most every video i see of Dustin Denes showing a technique, his partner is usually in pretty good pain, and after the first or second showing, the partner is tapping to pressure/pain alone...normally before the actual submission is performed.

check this poor guy out...i cringed just watching him!

 

[Spazzmaster]

Well, Dustin Denes has a bit of a rep for having painful jiu jitsu. He believes in making his opponent feel as uncomfortable as possible. Dominant positions are supposed to feel dominant, and submissions are meant to be hurtful from start to finish. That is his style.

I would say most modern BJJ instructors tend to be less sadistic than that. But the reality is that BJJ is a full contact combat sport/art. Like Osiander says, it ain't ballet.

You could argue that Marcelo Garcia's elbow high guillotine is more of a throat crush than a blood choke. Part of the reason you tap is because it hurts so bad, not just that you are going out. Marcelo is one of the nicest guys in BJJ and he even calls it the "throat crush" in his book.

Roy Dean is another nice guy, very Zen attitude. influenced by aikido, but even he says the N/S kimura should be taken "with authority."

For what it is worth, I've seen my own instructor tap guys out using only positioning. He can make you feel so twisted up and pressured that you want to give up just so you can return to a natural body position.

 

[Badabing1234]

Since we are on the subject of kimuras....

Any of you kimura bros know how to counter people who like to defend the kimura (we are talking from north and south like in the video) by locking their arms like in an rnc/ holding onto their lapels?

There are some pretty cool ways to counter when people defend by grabbing the inner thighs. But the rnc defense is really annoying... makes them a tight ball and hard to move!

 

[Spazzmaster]

Ideally you should be stapling the bottom arm with your shin to prevent him from defending, like Eric Burdo shows. But if your opponent does have both arms totally committed to defending he will be vulnerable to a paper cutter choke like this:

 

[Spazzmaster]

Gerbiljiujitsu has also taught several interesting solutions to guys defending the N/S kimura

Transition to bow & arrow choke


Transition to head scissors choke


Transition to modified barata plata


Warning: the last one very easily turns into an illegal bicep slicer.

 

[LoopChoke]

The painful bjj is not my style. Most of my training partners are friends and I wouldn't do that to them. Plus it would only be a matter of time when someone better would to that to me or purposely try to break something. To me there more satisfaction in hitting clean technique without using strength or causing pain.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I'de like to know how common this type of "technique presentation" is around the rest of the bjj world...what i mean is, it seems like most every video i see of Dustin Denes showing a technique, his partner is usually in pretty good pain, and after the first or second showing, the partner is tapping to pressure/pain alone...normally before the actual submission is performed.

check this poor guy out...i cringed just watching him!

kind of off topic, but...

the other day when there was this Busta vs Jimmy de Pedro thread, I was going through murilos fight, and I saw a couple of his fights ended by armtriangle, couldnt help to notice that it was the same Armtriangle Mario Sperry does in his Vale tudo dvd, now I see dustin doing it the same way... The difference is that Mario spread his legs, and Dustin says, "penguin your legs"... anyone knows whats that about?

 

[Spazzmaster]

^Dustin Denes is from Carlson lineage / BTT, so it makes sense you see similarities with Bustamante and Sperry.

Honestly, I think how exactly your legs are splayed is less important than the idea of keeping your hips low, flattening yourself and squeezing your bicep to complete the arm triangle.

I've seen some guys teach the arm triangle with a tripod and driving in to create pressure, like Tim Sledd does here (from the second post in the thread).



But I feel this is actually less efficient. In my experience, with Tim's method, your angle has to be exactly right or your opponent will find space, there is no room for error and you are using up energy. But that is just my opinion, Tim Sledd is legit and would probably dismantle me.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

^Dustin Denes is from Carlson lineage / BTT, so it makes sense you see similarities with Bustamante and Sperry.

Honestly, I think how exactly your legs are splayed is less important than the idea of keeping your hips low, flattening yourself and squeezing your bicep to complete the arm triangle.

I've seen some guys teach the arm triangle with a tripod and driving in to create pressure, like Tim Sledd does here (from the second post in the thread).



But I feel this is actually less efficient. In my experience, with Tim's method, your angle has to be exactly right or your opponent will find space, there is no room for error and you are using up energy. But that is just my opinion, Tim Sledd is legit and would probably dismantle me.

thanks! I kind of guess he was from that lineage, "pain jiu jitsu" plus weird ass arm triangle, must all come from the same place..

 

[Hywel Teague]

Well, Dustin Denes has a bit of a rep for having painful jiu jitsu. He believes in making his opponent feel as uncomfortable as possible. Dominant positions are supposed to feel dominant, and submissions are meant to be hurtful from start to finish. That is his style.

having rolled with Dustin I can attest the above is true! Super nice guy but yes rolling with him is not a comfortable experience. He does not try to hurt you, but he's not a flowing-nicey-nice kind of guy