Dumbell flies - a good lift with a bad reputation?

[graedy]

I always found dumbell flies to be an effective lift to build up your bench if you are weak of the chest. On top of that I think that especially when done on a slight incline it requires a lot of stabilisation in almost every angle the shoulder can move.
I always found its a bit strange that skullcrushers and the like (extra triwork) are ok but flies are looked down upon.
Could it be because many of the routines used in here are powerlifting based and powerlifting is pretty biased with equipment (so no need for extra chest work)?
OR is it just because the pecs are one of the typical muscles every wannabe-bodybuilder trains way too much?
Very strong regulars have admited the use of this lift (devilsson comes to mind) with good success.
So, stop the hatred or what?

 

[SmashiusClay]

Gonna have to disagree with you there Graedy.

You want to build strength off the chest then wide grip benching, benching with a pause and one-board work are a better idea. Pec flies for bench is like lateral raises for OHP, yes they'll do something, but you could spend your time a lot better.

 

[takeahnase]

I think flies are a good assistance move if used with higher reps (6-8+). Very wide grip benching hurts my shoulder because I can't pronate my grip when benching.

If you search the net for advice specifically on RAW benching, you will find many recommendations of dumbbell work in general and often flies in particular.

 

[Lusst]

OR is it just because the pecs are one of the typical muscles every wannabe-bodybuilder trains way too much?

That statement gets my vote.

 

[graedy]

Gonna have to disagree with you there Graedy.

You want to build strength off the chest then wide grip benching, benching with a pause and one-board work are a better idea. Pec flies for bench is like lateral raises for OHP, yes they'll do something, but you could spend your time a lot better.

The same could be said about close grip bench and 3 board press being a better option then extension like skullcrushers for the triceps. Its true but still its used to hit the tris even more.
For weak lockout you would recommend:
Bench-3 Board bench-skullcrusher
why not for weak of the chest:
Bench-paused bench-flies
?

 

[w0cyru01]

Have you tried them yet??

I would take takeahnase's advice and at least try them for yourself before writing them off.

Remember, weightlifting is an artform and nobodies style is the same.

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Id prefer dips if you are weak off the chest

 

[graedy]

Have you tried them yet??

I would take takeahnase's advice and at least try them for yourself before writing them off.

Remember, weightlifting is an artform and nobodies style is the same.

Have you read my post? Or are you talking to Smashius?

 

[w0cyru01]

Have you read my post? Or are you talking to Smashius?

It was based on yours.

But i'm borderline short bus.

I thought you were asking if they were ok to do, but now that i re-read your post I see.

*passes through*

 

[SmashiusClay]

As with any isolation movement my opinion is that they can be used to bring up a weak point and there's no harm in doing them, but they should only be considered after bigger, compound movements, in the same way skullcrushers get chucked ontot the end of a workout if you've already done your CGBP.

The problem is people claim they're an assisstance exercise and then spend more time and effort on them than their bench, same with curls.

 

[Donut62]

Flies are a good movement. The Smolov and other Russian powerlifting routines make heavy use of them as an assitance exercise.

 

[graedy]

As with any isolation movement my opinion is that they can be used to bring up a weak point and there's no harm in doing them, but they should only be considered after bigger, compound movements, in the same way skullcrushers get chucked ontot the end of a workout if you've already done your CGBP.

The problem is people claim they're an assisstance exercise and then spend more time and effort on them than their bench, same with curls.

I completelly agree here. Just wanted to put flies in the same box as skullcrushers and curls.

 

[ThinkGreen]

I think flies are good for making your pecs larger, but not making your bench/presses stronger. I would prefer doing close and/or wide grip bench, dips, skullcrushers, or boardpress. It seems pointless to do flies with so many other alternatives in my opinion.

 

[Lusst]

Remember, weightlifting is an artform and nobodies style is the same.

I'm going to start wearing a beret when I lift.

 

[IrishAssassin]

i look at more of just making my chest stronger overall when i do them and not necessarily trying to increase my bench - i toss them in every couple of weeks at the end of a workout

 

[takeahnase]

I think flies are good for making your pecs larger, but not making your bench/presses stronger. I would prefer doing close and/or wide grip bench, dips, skullcrushers, or boardpress. It seems pointless to do flies with so many other alternatives in my opinion.

"Making your pecs larger" might be a valid solution to being weak off the chest, no? Everybody on this forum is proud of having a big butt, as having a big, strong butt assists with a whole lot of movements, but large pecs are useless?
Before somebody jumps on it, I know that hypertrophy is not the same as being strong, but sometimes you are weak because you don't have enough muscle, full stop. If CNS was all that mattered, lightweights would be moving more weight than heavyweights. Larger pecs increase potential strength.

 

[XTrainer]

I like flies in theory, but in practice, they are quite painful for me. Not "good painful" like a squat, but "bad painful," like I'm going to hurt myself. Especially in the shoulders. Anyone else get this?

 

[ThinkGreen]

"Making your pecs larger" might be a valid solution to being weak off the chest, no? Everybody on this forum is proud of having a big butt, as having a big, strong butt assists with a whole lot of movements, but large pecs are useless?
Before somebody jumps on it, I know that hypertrophy is not the same as being strong, but sometimes you are weak because you don't have enough muscle, full stop. If CNS was all that mattered, lightweights would be moving more weight than heavyweights. Larger pecs increase potential strength.

Targeting a specific muscle just for mass purposes is not in my agenda, sorry. I want to get as strong as I can without gaining too much mass

 

[Diomedes]

Never been a fan of flies, I just assume go ahead and do dips or flat dumbell press if need be after benching.

 

[graedy]

I like flies in theory, but in practice, they are quite painful for me. Not "good painful" like a squat, but "bad painful," like I'm going to hurt myself. Especially in the shoulders. Anyone else get this?

If I keep my arms completelly straight while going down I have the same problem. I bend a bit in the elbows and the problem is solved. You need more weight with this method than with arms straight but I dont think this is a problem ;D