draws, what to do about them...

BJJ_Rage

BJJ_Rage

Gold Belt
@Gold
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
20,363
Reaction score
405
another incredible exiting on paper event has passed, I will admit that I did not watch it, so I dont know how exiting the matches were, but lets talk in general terms, sub only matches are cool, but thing is, at a high level, specially no gi, it is very hard to sub your opponent, I mean, when elite grapplers meet elite grapplers.

I personally love EBI OT rules, I know it may not decide whos the better grappler, but well, it wasnt decided on the regular time either, imo, its way better than for example, having judges ala metamoris 2 (which is even more confusing than having points), and since having points is not an option (because well, its sub only) I believe is the best system and every single sub only tournament should be uder this rule set, draws always leave you like, meh, at least for me, may be some changes could be add to the format, more positions for example, what are you thoughts about this guys? you guys rather have draws and leave it this or go ot ebi rules?

discuss...
 
EBI rules, you need a winner and you can bitch about it not being fair.. well win it in regulation. If someone tries to Joe Soto their way through the tournament...call stalling.

The one thing I don't like about the EBI rules is that if someone gets a sub in one of OT's, the other person gets a chance still.. no it should be exactly like a knockout or pin in wrestling.. if you sub them, match over. I don't care that you didn't get a chance to take someone's back and they did, you get subbed, match done
 
jack36767 said:
EBI rules, you need a winner and you can bitch about it not being fair.. well win it in regulation. If someone tries to Joe Soto their way through the tournament...call stalling.

The one thing I don't like about the EBI rules is that if someone gets a sub in one of OT's, the other person gets a chance still.. no it should be exactly like a knockout or pin in wrestling.. if you sub them, match over. I don't care that you didn't get a chance to take someone's back and they did, you get subbed, match done
Click to expand...
No way Jose. You gotta give them a fair chance to return the favor, since they start in such advantageous position.
 
JustinTime said:
No way Jose. You gotta give them a fair chance to return the favor, since they start in such advantageous position.
Click to expand...
If the submission is the ultimate...bjj's/sub grapplings equivalent to the pin or knockout... it need to be treated as such.. don't like it.. don't go to fucking overtime. Don't be a baby, either don't go to overtime or escape. It's not about being fair.. Overtime functions as much as a punishment for not doing your job in regulation as anything...

If you tap out which = I give up because you are either about to make me go unconscious or maim me so I give up.. oh wait give me another chance... no
 
Base pay then it doubles if you get the sub? Half base pass if you get carded for stalling. Or is it not for lack of trying? I did see the matches today.
 
use a point system that awards positional control?
 
BJJ_Rage said:
Aint that what ibjjf is mostly about?
Click to expand...
oh my god, you're right.

it's almost like someone actually thought this through already and realized that bjj is more than just finishes!
 
Use points.

An obvious compromise would be to give them 2 rounds, the 1st sub only and then if there was no sub extra time with points.
 
Points + bonus money for subs is a really exiting format.
It was used in the ultimate absolute and rewatching that would be superior to Polaris.
There are much better point systems then IBJJF one (stalling + constant corner cases).
I find cool sweeps and guard passes more exiting than a EBI style contest of back escapes.
 
jack36767 said:
If the submission is the ultimate...bjj's/sub grapplings equivalent to the pin or knockout... it need to be treated as such.. don't like it.. don't go to fucking overtime. Don't be a baby, either don't go to overtime or escape. It's not about being fair.. Overtime functions as much as a punishment for not doing your job in regulation as anything...

If you tap out which = I give up because you are either about to make me go unconscious or maim me so I give up.. oh wait give me another chance... no
Click to expand...
The problem here is that you're not punishing them. You're only punishing one of them, and rewarding the other, not based on their skill or merits, but rather on a coin toss.
 
Reward submission attempts with points. The more you go for broke and be offensive ensures your win.
 
Judges. We can look at a match like Bravo vs Royler and see who did better. We can watch Shields vs Agazarm and see who did better.

No time limit will turn people off. I don't want to sit there for an hour watching two exhausted people sloppily going for subs. There's a reason why UFC implemented time limits and why Brazilian vale tudo also had time limits. No time limit fights get boring fast.

Polaris is a spectators sport. All that needs to be done is provide a climax and get rid of the anticlimax. Involve judges that have no ties to the players and have at least a purple belt or above.
 
JustinTime said:
The problem here is that you're not punishing them. You're only punishing one of them, and rewarding the other, not based on their skill or merits, but rather on a coin toss.
Click to expand...
I understand, and people say the same thing about the "ultimate overtime" in wrestling where either a coin flip or whoever scored first (depends on the state), gets choice of top or bottom, if you escape you win, if you ride out you win. And people said the same thing that it was unfair and college went to a similar overtime to EBI that will go down to riding time. And it's boring, and guys get good at holding/riding rather than wrestling/grappling/going for points/pin/submission.

The whole point of EBI (as Eddie Bravo has stated repeatedly) is to make it a viable thing to be viewed on TV. And if grappling sports period want to not just survive and grow. You need to promote action and taking risk, not scoring. And no one likes watching overtime. And you want to promote finishing so it's not about being "fair", it's about giving every incentive in the world for both guys to go for a finish, whether it be money, terrifying overtime etc. and most importantly.. have it get done in a reasonable amount of time

And yes.. I'm well aware of the razor thin, hundredths of a percent difference between top competitors.. I wrestled DI in college and one of the best wrestling states in the country after PA in high school. Sometimes growing the sport takes precedence over what's "fair". And I'd rather their be some unfair rules than risk shrinking or becoming WWE

That being said. Honestly, while I like EBI the more I watch bjj tournaments and matches the more I think sport bjj has the exact same problems as college wrestling
1. Refs do not freaking call stalling, as long as it's consistent I would rather more stalling be called than not. Because even if there are always going to be people who game the system and stall. Consistently calling stalling will actually make watching those people more interesting because they will actually have to have some strategy to not get hit for stalling that you can either watch and appreciate or hate.. rather than sitting in 50/50 after getting a lead or just riding someone parallel for 6 minutes
2. Too many open tournaments that last all day with no one in the stands
 
dmwalking said:
There's a reason no time limit is old school. It sucks for the viewer. Embrace evolution and adaptation.
Click to expand...

Nope. Stream them online, multiple matches at one time. The viewer can watch as many or as few as he wants, at whatever speed he wants. Old school + the future = pretty damn awesome.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,254,411
Messages
56,645,384
Members
175,331
Latest member
psykro

Share this page

Back
Top