Downloading Instructional Torrents

[NateTx4112]

Respect. I don't look down on your for doing something I too have done. But you know what you are doing. You flat out don't want to pay for it but you don't try to rationalize it and twist it so you can feel morally right about it. No need to find a reason why you deserve it.

You wanted it, you downloaded it and make no apologies for it. I respect that more the those who try to say they deserve it.

I pirate absolutely everything. I even organized pools for Ryan Hall's new stuff.

Do I think it's wrong?

I don't just think it's wrong; I KNOW it's wrong.

It's stealing. I don't care what the definition of stealing is in the dictionary because I don't have to look it up to know it's wrong.

I live overseas and I can't afford anything right now. I usually go to sleep on an empty stomach. Does that mean I am entitled to download pirated material? Of course not.

I should concentrate on making money and less on improving my footwork Pfor boxing but new torrents always make money a second priority. But my stomach is going to make me change that for the new year.

Anybody who doesn't know that pirating stuff is fucking stupid. And I mean really, really stupid. It's sad that people actually rationalize doing it. Just admit that it's wrong and that you do it. It's wrong and I am going to do it as long as I can because just like others who pirate I am morally imperfect.

It's called business and there's a reason why it exists. The digital age has made stealing these instructionals a piece of cake but it doesn't make it right.

 

[thegreenblender]

This is the most semantic piece of sophistry I've seen in a long time.

Just admit that you don't want to pay for it. That's really all I want.

Just admit that you can't keep up, and you wish that repeating the same thing over and over would win you the day.

 

[thegreenblender]

Respect. I don't look down on your for doing something I too have done. But you know what you are doing. You flat out don't want to pay for it but you don't try to rationalize it and twist it so you can feel morally right about it. No need to find a reason why you deserve it.

You wanted it, you downloaded it and make no apologies for it. I respect that more the those who try to say they deserve it.

There is no such thing as doing something you believe is wrong without ANY justification. That's called being a sociopath, and I'm pretty sure that's not something you want to be praising.

 

[Deleted member 256494]

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You sound like a moron. You don't believe it's wrong. If you BELIEVED it was wrong, you wouldn't be doing it. You have your own justifications. If you say you don't need justifications AND you truly believe it was wrong, then you would be what is termed a sociopath. And I doubt that.

Sociopath? Maybe. I'm not a psychologist but I don't think I fit the bill.

I treat everybody with tons of respect. I love my family and country and I help others around me when I can. I never hurt anybody out of malice.

Do I believe pirating is wrong? It's not just believing. I think you are the moron because you lack simple reading comprehension. I KNOW IT'S WRONG. I'm not stupid and that's why I know it's wrong. I am all for the the gov't doing something against pirating.

But that's not going to stop me from doing it. I'd be stupid in my eyes not to do it.

 

[YeahBee]

Its the abstract concept of knowledge. No, you are not stealing something physical. They still have their technique, but there is a cost involved in the production of the dvd. Also, what is the value of the time it has taken them to acquire their knowledge? Its not as simple as a copy still being available.

they still have their technique, they still have the potential to sell it to someone who is willing and able to pay

with your logic we shouldn't have this forum in the first place

ideas and concepts are being SHARED without benefit going strictly to those who came up with it. But we are better grapplers because of it

knowledge grows exponentially, people are exposed to more then they could've afford on their own, this leads to a bigger pool of people to draw from later.

it is like artists without records deals can still manage to pull a big crowd



without pirating I would never have been into the UFC in the first place

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

In the scenario where one would not, could not pay for it anyways, but is able to get a digital copy...how is anyone harmed? If you were a potential customer and you won't pay, then you've taken something away. If you were never a potential customer, you never had the means to pay, how is anyone harmed or stolen from by your possessing a digital copy? They were never going to get your money anyways, you understand?

Here's how they get harmed.

1. Intellectual property dilution. After a while, the information becomes public knowledge if it gets into too many hands. When that happens, even people that would buy it don't need to, because it's already too diluted.

2. Fringe people. They are the ones that buy it what it's not easily available and download it when it is. The more people download and subsequently share, the more availability there is and there are people (not you obviously) people that would have paid, but now won't.

3. Failure to protect their trademark/copyright. If they take no action, meaning trying to enforce the laws, reporting violations, etc. they literally lose the right after a time because their enforcement appears selective, which it isn't supposed to be.

 

[thegreenblender]

Sociopath? Maybe. I'm not a psychologist but I don't think I fit the bill.

I treat everybody with tons of respect. I love my family and country and I help others around me when I can. I never hurt anybody out of malice.

Do I believe pirating is wrong? It's not just believing. I think you are the moron because you lack simple reading comprehension. I KNOW IT'S WRONG. I'm not stupid and that's why I know it's wrong. I am all for the the gov't doing something against pirating.

But that's not going to stop me from doing it. I'd be stupid in my eyes not to do it.

And there we have the justification....but no, obviously you need no justification. Trust me, you are not some blackhearted cold as ice badass. You don't truly believe this stuff is wrong. You think it's kind of wrong, mostly wrong, but there are reasons YOU should do it, so for YOU, it's not all that wrong.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

Just admit that you can't keep up, and you wish that repeating the same thing over and over would win you the day.

Umm....what? Don't kid yourself. Nothing you've said even remotely taxes my mental ability to follow the argument. I'm fully capable of keeping up. This is just pointless argument, because there isn't a third party judge to decide who is right and who is wrong.

I'm not going to get dragged into a 15 page back and forth with you. I've said my peace. I recognize someone who will say anything to justify their actions..

 

[redaxe]

Wrong. There have been plenty of people convicted for downloading. They are both crimes.

OK, I stand corrected.

In that case, I guess I commit a crime every time I beat off!

Do any of you guys feel anywhere near as morally conflicted about downloading porn as you seem to feel about downloading BJJ instructionals?

What's the difference?

 

[YeahBee]

Wow. Really?

If it were not for financial incentives, a lot of us would not even be doing jiu jitsu. Do you guys think the early Brazilians that came to America came here for the women and the weather?

As Cyborg said in an interview, one of the reason he likes it in America is because people are willing to pay for his knowledge.

If you sneak into an academy you are taking up space and time a paying customer, you are hurting the instructor

I own several books about grappling, I like having them in physical form, it is easy and convenient, it would be a real hassle to download, print and bind it in a book, and if I buy all those supplies it would probably be more then the book is worth in the first place

 

[YeahBee]

Here's how they get harmed.

1. Intellectual property dilution. After a while, the information becomes public knowledge if it gets into too many hands. When that happens, even people that would buy it don't need to, because it's already too diluted.

2. Fringe people. They are the ones that buy it what it's not easily available and download it when it is. The more people download and subsequently share, the more availability there is and there are people (not you obviously) people that would have paid, but now won't.

3. Failure to protect their trademark/copyright. If they take no action, meaning trying to enforce the laws, reporting violations, etc. they literally lose the right after a time because their enforcement appears selective, which it isn't supposed to be.

so then this forum should be banned aswell?

we have already gone thru the Cody guilliotine at length, several posters are very knowledgeable. we have an new in house blackbelt who churns out short instructionals free of charge

 

[Jinzumkei]

In the scenario where one would not, could not pay for it anyways, but is able to get a digital copy...how is anyone harmed? If you were a potential customer and you won't pay, then you've taken something away. If you were never a potential customer, you never had the means to pay, how is anyone harmed or stolen from by your possessing a digital copy? They were never going to get your money anyways, you understand?

Well to be fair, it's not that they care that you "possess" a copy, they only care that you "consume" it without paying for it.

The issue is not whether or not you are physically taking something from some one and thus depriving their use of it, which I believe is what you are defining as theft, it's that you are consuming it without paying for it.

Similarly why you can't broadcast PPVs to a bunch of people even if you bought it and arent making a profit.

 

[thegreenblender]

Here's how they get harmed.

1. Intellectual property dilution. After a while, the information becomes public knowledge if it gets into too many hands. When that happens, even people that would buy it don't need to, because it's already too diluted.

2. Fringe people. They are the ones that buy it what it's not easily available and download it when it is. The more people download and subsequently share, the more availability there is and there are people (not you obviously) people that would have paid, but now won't.

3. Failure to protect their trademark/copyright. If they take no action, meaning trying to enforce the laws, reporting violations, etc. they literally lose the right after a time because their enforcement appears selective, which it isn't supposed to be.

Okay....except I was describing my OWN scenario, where I have never, even before I had online access to them, bought an instructional...I was never a potential customer, and will not be in the foreseeable future, because I cannot afford it. I wasn't going to buy it anyways, they lose zero from me. I'm also pretty sure that unless my badass jiu-jitsu becomes public knowledge and everyone observes me kicking ass with moves from instructionals, I'm not going to dillute any intellectual property.

NOW, what you say is very good justification in general, for them to lock down digital security. Getting things online is so easy it's a joke. Apple and others have done a good job of cracking down on digital security and it's done wonders for their sales. Right or wrong, if it is easily available, people are going to take it. I wholeheartedly agree that something needs to be done about piracy, especially as someone likely going into software development. In the meantime, with things being what they are, I'm not going to feel bad about enjoying digital content I didn't pay for. If I did have the money, I probably would shell out, because god knows I've gotten many a headache downloading something large only to find out it's corrupted or broken. I'd spare myself the pain if I had the money. But to ensure there is no other option and to protect their intellectual property, online security is going to have to change dramatically.

 

[Jinzumkei]

they still have their technique, they still have the potential to sell it to someone who is willing and able to pay

with your logic we shouldn't have this forum in the first place

ideas and concepts are being SHARED without benefit going strictly to those who came up with it. But we are better grapplers because of it

knowledge grows exponentially, people are exposed to more then they could've afford on their own, this leads to a bigger pool of people to draw from later.

it is like artists without records deals can still manage to pull a big crowd

without pirating I would never have been into the UFC in the first place

So you're basic argument is that piracy is ok because it exposes more people to said product. whatever, i'm cool with that.

but man your comparisons are just asinine.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

NOW, what you say is very good justification in general, for them to lock down digital security.

I'll accept this as an acknowledgment, at least, that I'm not retarded....thanks.

:icon_twis

 

[Jdonw]

they still have their technique, they still have the potential to sell it to someone who is willing and able to pay

with your logic we shouldn't have this forum in the first place

ideas and concepts are being SHARED without benefit going strictly to those who came up with it. But we are better grapplers because of it

knowledge grows exponentially, people are exposed to more then they could've afford on their own, this leads to a bigger pool of people to draw from later.

it is like artists without records deals can still manage to pull a big crowd



without pirating I would never have been into the UFC in the first place

This is a forum made for the sole purpose of the free exchange of ideas. As long as somebody is willing to set it up and pay for it, which is done through ads, go for it. By joining this forum I understand that my writing is going out to the public, just as I share it by talking.

To even attempt such an example to poke holes in intellectual property rights is laughable.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

so then this forum should be banned aswell?

we have already gone thru the Cody guilliotine at length, several posters are very knowledgeable. we have an new in house blackbelt who churns out short instructionals free of charge

That's not the same thing. You can't really copyright an idea....that's trade mark.

They can only copy right the digital media itself, not the ideas. So people can explain what they saw. Teachers can teach it after watching it.

The black belts that post here post their own stuff. They aren't asking to be paid, so that's their right. They are freely giving it up, which is different than having someone take it.

 

[thegreenblender]

I'll accept this as an acknowledgment, at least, that I'm not retarded....thanks.

:icon_twis

I don't hate you man, I just was honestly trying to tell you I cannot afford this stuff, but I'm not willing to live like a monk and not enjoy what is so easily available. It's like leaving me in a room with a great porn DVD and and a TV/DVDplayer...then you tell me, "That's mine. I don't give you permission to watch that. I'll be back in three hours."...lol

 

[YeahBee]

So...you're seeing things in the same kind of model as bands who might put their stuff out for free online, build a following, and then when the gig comes, they sell the album of songs people probably have most of in the first place, and that helps support the band? Plus the ticket price, obviously?

...interesting.

Instructional market is going to have to change, and I'm not sure if the online subscription sites are the right way to do it either, even though it's obviously an improvement in many ways. Just wondering on how best to do it. Iphone apps seem kind of gimmicky too, so kind of out on that one too.

Hrm. Opinions?

To return to the earlier scenario, these are the bands who are often supported by a lot of hardcores who like supporting an up-and-coming act, but when they hit it big, they are the first to be accused of selling out and forgetting their roots. Kind of like here, where the up and coming competitors on 'the scene' get support, whilst the established instructors with schools have people saying that it's less important, because they already have an income. Fair parallel?

Take care,

Oli

Do you film most of your matches? you are at a pretty high level now so does rights and whatnot come into play? Are you allowed to distribute matches however you want? They are mostly still "amateur" comps right? not many high level comps actually pay you to just compete? ADCC only and a few others. Mundials is still not paying winners right?


I think you could definitely make a fair buck just acting like an indie band, I know that my club we go over seminars/camps at the next class we have back home, if somebody goes away to visit another school they hold the next class. If you sell pretty much the same seminar you are holding with perhaps some new detail you covered that'd be a great resource

 

[Jinzumkei]

Okay....except I was describing my OWN scenario, where I have never, even before I had online access to them, bought an instructional...I was never a potential customer, and will not be in the foreseeable future, because I cannot afford it. I wasn't going to buy it anyways, they lose zero from me. I'm also pretty sure that unless my badass jiu-jitsu becomes public knowledge and everyone observes me kicking ass with moves from instructionals, I'm not going to dillute any intellectual property.

NOW, what you say is very good justification in general, for them to lock down digital security. Getting things online is so easy it's a joke. Apple and others have done a good job of cracking down on digital security and it's done wonders for their sales. Right or wrong, if it is easily available, people are going to take it. I wholeheartedly agree that something needs to be done about piracy, especially as someone likely going into software development. In the meantime, with things being what they are, I'm not going to feel bad about enjoying digital content I didn't pay for. If I did have the money, I probably would shell out, because god knows I've gotten many a headache downloading something large only to find out it's corrupted or broken. I'd spare myself the pain if I had the money. But to ensure there is no other option and to protect their intellectual property, online security is going to have to change dramatically.

Yes I agree you're probably not hurting anyone because you never had the intent of buying it in the first place, so you're not robbing them of any money. BUT how does the publisher know that?

See you've already consumed the product, so you potentially have the knowledge it contains, which then you can pass on for free to a potential customer, who then in turn passes it on, and so on and so on.

That's what the laws are trying to protect against. You say that you don't rob the artists because you'd never buy it anyway, but I'm sure you've shared what you know with your training buddies who MAY have bought the DVDs, so you may have in fact "robbed" the instructor.