Downloading Instructional Torrents

[fiftysvn]

but the "stealing" by downloading doesn't have to be justified on any moral grounds. it is not wrong in the first place because it doesn't hurt anybody.

Wow. Really?

If it were not for financial incentives, a lot of us would not even be doing jiu jitsu. Do you guys think the early Brazilians that came to America came here for the women and the weather?

As Cyborg said in an interview, one of the reason he likes it in America is because people are willing to pay for his knowledge.

 

[Jdonw]

you still don't see the difference

Stealing to feed your children, perfectly fine based on moral grounds

but the "stealing" by downloading doesn't have to be justified on any moral grounds. it is not wrong in the first place because it doesn't hurt anybody. And infact creates many positive things which you defenders so easily ignores

it has got nothing to do with rights, entitlements or luxuries, it is simply a different kind of lending, a bonus if you will

should the cost of a movie depend on how many people watch it?

If I buy a PPV and invite my friends it is legal, but if I stream the same event it is illegal, where is the logic in that?

it is like you begrudge people to enjoy something they can't afford to buy because you want the whole world to see "here I am I can buy all this stuff"

I think both sides of the argument are wrong.

Legalizing piracy will then destroy the ability to pirate. If everybody shared digital copies or streamed ppv there would be no revenue in. Then nobody would make the content to be pirated.

Also your line about it not needing to be justified on moral grounds is flat out wrong. In fact you agree that your statement is wrong because you do try to prove that piracy is not wrong, therefore justifying its moral ground.

 

[thegreenblender]

Its intellectual property. You aren't stealing something physical, you are stealing somebody's intellect that they have put into instructional format. At least that is one side of the argument.

The word steal just doesn't apply. To steal, you have to take something away. They had it, now they don't. I'm pretty sure the peoples instructionals I've downloaded still have their technique (or intellect), and there aren't any DVD shelves with missing products on account of me. If you ask me, the only ones harmed are butthurt people who need to feel like their ability to pay makes them morally superior to those who get instructionals/whatever by other means, even if those means aren't harming anyone. These people remind me of persons who get mad because someone found a ticket on the ground, but they had to pay for theirs. Of course, they were planning on paying anyways and they lost nothing, but they've got to give someone else a hard time just because they don't like the notion that someone "less deserving" got the same thing as them.

 

[Lawman53]

if Dylan were on the streetcorner playing music for pennies....you would have never heard it in all likelihood.

That is exactly the point. I'm not saying that bjj players would quit training. They just wouldn't make DVDs.

 

[YeahBee]

You should all watch the southpark on downloading. That pretty much sums up my view on it.

no need to watch it. just know that Southpark themselves release everything for free

it is still a huge seller AND in addition got like 50 million viewers online

same with many TV-shows, huge numbers on TV, huge numbers in downloads, huge numbers in legal streaming Hulu and huge DVD sales

 

[rnaviaux]

It really doesn't matter if it is right or wrong. Regardless, piracy of copyright materials occurs. The industry needs to adapt to it. This is happened with music with mp3s, and is happening now in publishing with e-readers. When there is no physical product, how does one judge value? The industry needs to adapt to their market.

Personally, Ryan Hall's DVD at $125 is ridiculous. Even at the 40% discount it seems to expensive, but the sample clips was very good marketing to peak my interest. I would love to buy up everybody's instructional dvds and support people. If the sets cost $40 a piece I would probably build a good library of them over time.

I would love to know what the instructors make on their dvds, the production costs and distribution don't add up to the large price tags I see.

I think 125 dollars is cheap. Privates with a black belt usually cost some where around a hundred dollars. That's just for an hour. Seminars are longer but cost about the same yet I can't remember everything I was taught.. This has over 5 hours of information that Ryan is teaching at a pretty fast clip. There is a ton of info on there. Of course its even more valuable to me personally because this has something I really want to learn.

I have over a hundred hours in instructionals now. I don't think I paid too much for any of it. But then I'm pretty selective in what I purchase.

I can hear and see what is being taught to me. Thats pretty important to me. How much cost versus profit is a lot less important to me. If I thought it was too expensive I wouldn't shell money out for it. If its too expensive for you then so be it.

 

[Deleted member 256494]

I pirate absolutely everything. I even organized pools for Ryan Hall's new stuff.

Do I think it's wrong?

I don't just think it's wrong; I KNOW it's wrong.

It's stealing. I don't care what the definition of stealing is in the dictionary because I don't have to look it up to know it's wrong.

I live overseas and I can't afford anything right now. I usually go to sleep on an empty stomach. Does that mean I am entitled to download pirated material? Of course not.

I should concentrate on making money and less on improving my footwork for boxing but new torrents always make money a second priority. But my stomach is going to make me change that for the new year.

Anybody who doesn't know that pirating stuff is fucking stupid. And I mean really, really stupid. It's sad that people actually rationalize doing it. Just admit that it's wrong and that you do it. It's wrong and I am going to do it as long as I can because just like others who pirate I am morally imperfect.

It's called business and there's a reason why it exists. The digital age has made stealing these instructionals a piece of cake but it doesn't make it right.

 

[rnaviaux]

The word steal just doesn't apply. To steal, you have to take something away. They had it, now they don't. I'm pretty sure the peoples instructionals I've downloaded still have their technique (or intellect), and there aren't any DVD shelves with missing products on account of me. If you ask me, the only ones harmed are butthurt people who need to feel like their ability to pay makes them morally superior to those who get instructionals/whatever by other means, even if those means aren't harming anyone. These people remind me of persons who get mad because someone found a ticket on the ground, but they had to pay for theirs. Of course, they were planning on paying anyways and they lost nothing, but they've got to give someone else a hard time just because they don't like the notion that someone "less deserving" got the same thing as them.

You might want to look up the word "steal" in a good dictionary.

 

[redaxe]

Guys, I'm not a lawyer or anything but I really don't think there's ever been a legal argument against downloading copyrighted materials.

The illegal act is uploading the copyrighted materials. It's the person sharing the file that's committing the crime.

Of course, with torrents, you're either simultaneously downloading and uploading, or you're "leeching" which will get you banned from most private trackers.

But the point is, it's not the act of downloading and consuming it that's the issue. It's the act of spreading copies around. A copyright is literally that, an exclusive right to make copies of something.

 

[thegreenblender]

if Dylan were on the streetcorner playing music for pennies....you would have never heard it in all likelihood.

That is exactly the point. I'm not saying that bjj players would quit training. They just wouldn't make DVDs.

I hear that, and I'm saying, "Fine. Stop making them." I never bought one even when I didn't know they were available online. But better yet, accept that we live in the digital age, that information sharing isn't going away...and digital security needs to get serious, because honestly, the only reason there is piracy is because it IS SO FREAKING EASY. On the other hand, you don't see many people passing around confidential FBI documents because they've got that shit locked down. Make it hard, and 95% of the people (the non-superhackers) will be left to find their entertainment by other means.

 

[thegreenblender]

You might want to look up the word "steal" in a good dictionary.

You might want to understand that a one line definition of steal is inadequate, just like no one could fully describe "whale" or "pregnancy" with two lines from a dictionary.

 

[YeahBee]

So just to clarify...if they put it out online at...an affordable rate. Say $20 a set...

And you had the $20 in your pocket, although you might need it down the line. And it WASN'T available online right now...

Would you buy it?

Or would you wait a month for it to come online to be torrented if you KNEW it would take a month to be available (I know, it's often quicker)?

Just curious. @_@

Take care,

Oli

P.S. ...also, have to ask...who puts these things up in the first place? How many people buy a DVD, then the first thing they do is rip it and put it online? Just seems strange to me. Not saying whether it's right or wrong, but does anyone know people out there who do that? What's their reasoning?

the ever illusive "scene"

they buy it at some point, or get it by other means before it is released

funny thing is that if you only charged 20bucks I would probably don't think it was worth it, not to order online anyway. maybe with some slick advertisement/teaser on youtube if I felt the product was gonna help me tremendously, a very specific technique maybe

Instructionals are probably a very fresh commodity. like that Cody kid with his wicked guilliotine, he better hurry up because soon there will be youtube instructionals out there who does it as good as him

Now on the other hand if I went to a seminar with you, and then afterwards you had a filmed seminar or regular isntructional I wouldn't mind shelling out 20bucks or more

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

you still don't see the difference

I see the difference that you are trying to explain. I just don't agree with you.

It's cool bro.

 

[Jdonw]

The word steal just doesn't apply. To steal, you have to take something away. They had it, now they don't. I'm pretty sure the peoples instructionals I've downloaded still have their technique (or intellect), and there aren't any DVD shelves with missing products on account of me. If you ask me, the only ones harmed are butthurt people who need to feel like their ability to pay makes them morally superior to those who get instructionals/whatever by other means, even if those means aren't harming anyone. These people remind me of persons who get mad because someone found a ticket on the ground, but they had to pay for theirs. Of course, they were planning on paying anyways and they lost nothing, but they've got to give someone else a hard time just because they don't like the notion that someone "less deserving" got the same thing as them.

Its the abstract concept of knowledge. No, you are not stealing something physical. They still have their technique, but there is a cost involved in the production of the dvd. Also, what is the value of the time it has taken them to acquire their knowledge? Its not as simple as a copy still being available.

 

[YeahBee]

if Dylan were on the streetcorner playing music for pennies....you would have never heard it in all likelihood.

That is exactly the point. I'm not saying that bjj players would quit training. They just wouldn't make DVDs.

but the music would be just as good

financial incentives isn't the end all to what makes the world go around

 

[thegreenblender]

I pirate absolutely everything. I even organized pools for Ryan Hall's new stuff.

Do I think it's wrong?

I don't just think it's wrong; I KNOW it's wrong.

It's stealing. I don't care what the definition of stealing is in the dictionary because I don't have to look it up to know it's wrong.

I live overseas and I can't afford anything right now. I usually go to sleep on an empty stomach. Does that mean I am entitled to download pirated material? Of course not.

I should concentrate on making money and less on improving my footwork for boxing but new torrents always make money a second priority. But my stomach is going to make me change that for the new year.

Anybody who doesn't know that pirating stuff is fucking stupid. And I mean really, really stupid. It's sad that people actually rationalize doing it. Just admit that it's wrong and that you do it. It's wrong and I am going to do it as long as I can because just like others who pirate I am morally imperfect.

It's called business and there's a reason why it exists. The digital age has made stealing these instructionals a piece of cake but it doesn't make it right.

i


You sound like a moron. You don't believe it's wrong. If you BELIEVED it was wrong, you wouldn't be doing it. You have your own justifications. If you say you don't need justifications AND you truly believe it was wrong, then you would be what is termed a sociopath. And I doubt that.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

Guys, I'm not a lawyer or anything but I really don't think there's ever been a legal argument against downloading copyrighted materials.

The illegal act is uploading the copyrighted materials. It's the person sharing the file that's committing the crime.

Wrong. There have been plenty of people convicted for downloading. They are both crimes.

 

[thegreenblender]

Its the abstract concept of knowledge. No, you are not stealing something physical. They still have their technique, but there is a cost involved in the production of the dvd. Also, what is the value of the time it has taken them to acquire their knowledge? Its not as simple as a copy still being available.

In the scenario where one would not, could not pay for it anyways, but is able to get a digital copy...how is anyone harmed? If you were a potential customer and you won't pay, then you've taken something away. If you were never a potential customer, you never had the means to pay, how is anyone harmed or stolen from by your possessing a digital copy? They were never going to get your money anyways, you understand?

 

[Oliver Geddes]

the ever illusive "scene"

they buy it at some point, or get it by other means before it is released

funny thing is that if you only charged 20bucks I would probably don't think it was worth it, not to order online anyway. maybe with some slick advertisement/teaser on youtube if I felt the product was gonna help me tremendously, a very specific technique maybe

Instructionals are probably a very fresh commodity. like that Cody kid with his wicked guilliotine, he better hurry up because soon there will be youtube instructionals out there who does it as good as him

Now on the other hand if I went to a seminar with you, and then afterwards you had a filmed seminar or regular isntructional I wouldn't mind shelling out 20bucks or more

So...you're seeing things in the same kind of model as bands who might put their stuff out for free online, build a following, and then when the gig comes, they sell the album of songs people probably have most of in the first place, and that helps support the band? Plus the ticket price, obviously?

...interesting.

Instructional market is going to have to change, and I'm not sure if the online subscription sites are the right way to do it either, even though it's obviously an improvement in many ways. Just wondering on how best to do it. Iphone apps seem kind of gimmicky too, so kind of out on that one too.

Hrm. Opinions?

To return to the earlier scenario, these are the bands who are often supported by a lot of hardcores who like supporting an up-and-coming act, but when they hit it big, they are the first to be accused of selling out and forgetting their roots. Kind of like here, where the up and coming competitors on 'the scene' get support, whilst the established instructors with schools have people saying that it's less important, because they already have an income. Fair parallel?

Take care,

Oli

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

The word steal just doesn't apply. To steal, you have to take something away. They had it, now they don't. I'm pretty sure the peoples instructionals I've downloaded still have their technique (or intellect), and there aren't any DVD shelves with missing products on account of me. If you ask me, the only ones harmed are butthurt people who need to feel like their ability to pay makes them morally superior to those who get instructionals/whatever by other means, even if those means aren't harming anyone. These people remind me of persons who get mad because someone found a ticket on the ground, but they had to pay for theirs. Of course, they were planning on paying anyways and they lost nothing, but they've got to give someone else a hard time just because they don't like the notion that someone "less deserving" got the same thing as them.

This is the most semantic piece of sophistry I've seen in a long time.

Just admit that you don't want to pay for it. That's really all I want.