Downloading Instructional Torrents

[YeahBee]

It is not a victimless crime. If it is not made criminal, then no one would pay ever.

We've seen with music, specifically MP3's, before it was illegal to download them, many people did. When it became illegal, suddenly people were willing to pay a little on Itunes or whatever.

There are at least some people that are dissuaded by the illegality of the act and later buy....not all, but you don't pass laws for the effect they have on everyone.

I think it had more to do with availability then willingness to pay. and some people are scared

People do alotta things for the fear of getting caught, where there are cameras people drive slower, but they speed up as soon as they know they are on a freeway without cameras

It is like pot some people think it is bad because "well it is illegal"

 

[thegreenblender]

Fine. Do whatever you want to make yourself happy. I'm not going to argue with you about it.

You are not entitled, you feel entitled and there is a difference.

What makes one entitled? Having money makes one entitled, is that right? Rather, having money means you can afford to pay for it. It doesn't mean you "deserve" it any more than anybody.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

What makes one entitled? Having money makes one entitled, is that right? Rather, having money means you can afford to pay for it. It doesn't mean you "deserve" it any more than anybody.

There is no deserving....that's the point. I'm not entitled to it either. It's a luxury, pure and simple. That's why I don't understand why you think you're entitled to it.

If I can't afford, I don't buy it...I'm not entitled to it ever. That doesn't say anything about be as a person, about my value....it's just fact economy.

We are only entitled, by law, to a very few things. Period.

Everything else is a function of what you can afford.

 

[Lawman53]

DVDs cost what they cost because the producers think that price will net themthe most profit. It is as simple as that.

If they don't make money off of a set because it is too expensive, they will lower the price.
A seller wants to charge as high a price as possible; the seller wants to pay as little as possible. This is how pricing works.

Additionally, you said that taping takes a long time (as does preparation and planning). Think about how much some of these guys can charge for privates. They need to make it worth their time.

 

[lechien]

What makes one entitled? Having money makes one entitled, is that right? Rather, having money means you can afford to pay for it. It doesn't mean you "deserve" it any more than anybody.

Jag should stop using fancy words.

LOL

 

[thegreenblender]

There is no deserving....that's the point. It's a luxury, pure and simple. That's why I don't understand why you think you're entitled to it.

If I can't afford, I don't buy it...I'm not entitled to it ever. That doesn't say anything about be as a person, about my value....it's just fact economy.

We are only entitled, by law, to a very few things. Period.

Right. This sounds like the stance of someone who can afford plenty. If you can't afford it, than you can't buy it. That makes sense. But if it is available online, why shouldn't you download it? You said yourself you can't buy it, so that means you weren't going to give your money to the DVD maker/whoever anyways, right? So, who is harmed by your downloading, since nobody was going to get your money for anything anyways--right? The only person harmed is you, if you honestly believe you are a morally bad human being for enjoying things you couldn't pay for.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

Right. This sounds like the stance of someone who can afford plenty. If you can't afford it, than you can't buy it. That makes sense. But if it is available online, why shouldn't you download it? You said yourself you can't buy it, so that means you weren't going to give your money to the DVD maker/whoever anyways, right? So, who is harmed by your downloading, since nobody was going to get your money for anything anyways--right? The only person harmed is you, if you honestly believe you are a morally bad human being for enjoying things you couldn't pay for.

You speak with a self righteousness that rivals even mine based on your poorness.

You have no idea how poor I've been in my life. How long have you been homeless, huh? When is that last time your home address was a camp ground, because that's all you could afford? How many soup kitchens have you eaten in? How many shelters have you slept in, huh? I can almost guarantee that's it nothing approaching my life, so stop trying be superior in your modesty.

You aren't stealing to survive. You're not stealing to feed your children. You're not stealing to get medicine for your mother or to pay for education for your kids to get them out of the gutter. Talk to me about that stuff and I'll be on the same page as you.

You're talking about stealing luxury, but keep telling yourself it's a right.

 

[YeahBee]

pirating increases peoples exposures to culture of all kinds and that is a good thing, people watch/listen/read more then they can afford, even if they download instead of buying (which doesn't happen that much) they spend the money on other stuff. the people in control get their shake no matter what

people gotta see the big picture in this

to the defenders of copyright you know what you are doing right? you are playing right into the hands of multinational corporations that withholds pharmaceuticals in the third world. people are going without AIDS medication because factories that do unlicensed copies that those people can afford are being cracked down upon, those people not entitled to live because they can't afford big name brand drugs?

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

I don't see how pirating instructionals are any different from pirating anything else, so if you already pirate shit, don't be a hypocrite

 

[Jdonw]

I think it had more to do with availability then willingness to pay. and some people are scared

People do alotta things for the fear of getting caught, where there are cameras people drive slower, but they speed up as soon as they know they are on a freeway without cameras

It is like pot some people think it is bad because "well it is illegal"

It really doesn't matter if it is right or wrong. Regardless, piracy of copyright materials occurs. The industry needs to adapt to it. This is happened with music with mp3s, and is happening now in publishing with e-readers. When there is no physical product, how does one judge value? The industry needs to adapt to their market.

Personally, Ryan Hall's DVD at $125 is ridiculous. Even at the 40% discount it seems to expensive, but the sample clips was very good marketing to peak my interest. I would love to buy up everybody's instructional dvds and support people. If the sets cost $40 a piece I would probably build a good library of them over time.

I would love to know what the instructors make on their dvds, the production costs and distribution don't add up to the large price tags I see.

 

[thegreenblender]

You speak with a self righteousness that rivals even mine based on your poorness.

You have no idea how poor I've been in my life. How long have you been homeless, huh? When is that last time your home address was a camp ground, because that's all you could afford? How many soup kitchens have you eaten in? How many shelters have you slept in, huh? I can almost guarantee that's it nothing approaching my life, so stop trying be superior in your modesty.

You aren't stealing to survive. You're not stealing to feed your children. You're not stealing to get medicine for your mother or to pay for education for your kids to get them out of the gutter. Talk to me about that stuff and I'll be on the same page as you.

You're talking about stealing luxury, but keep telling yourself it's a right.

I've been poor fucking plenty, so don't try to out e-poor me. You talk about stealing, but stealing isn't the subject here. Obviously you wish it was, because you are looking for any reason to put yourself on a high moral pedestal. I download a "copy", no one is deprived. They weren't going to get my money anyways. Long before I knew how to get instructionals online, I never paid for one. Why? I didn't have the money. Still don't. But if I can have it for free, and no one is harmed, why shouldn't I have it? It's not about entitlement. A title (en-title-ment) implies ownership. No owns a fucking copy, and I'm not taking a goddman thing from anyone.

 

[Belatucadros]

It is not a victimless crime. If it is not made criminal, then no one would pay ever.

We've seen with music, specifically MP3's, before it was illegal to download them, many people did. When it became illegal, suddenly people were willing to pay a little on Itunes or whatever.

I'm not certain that is correct. The iTunes business model is great and if it had existed right off (instead of the original napster/limewire), I think it would have turned the industry on it's head all the same.

But that aside, albums are still being downloaded left and right for free.


I actually think something like that for instructionals could be pretty cool lol. $1-2 for a section of a DVD (Hall's have what, 30 or so?)

 

[Lawman53]

They wouldn't have those AIDS drugs if they didn't have the incentive to spend billions of dollars developing them. That incentive is provided to them by....charging for drugs.

Also, more people are exposed to culture because of piracy? Piracy reduces the likelihood of the creation of art. In the nineteenth century, authors had to release their books in serially in magazines because if they published a whole book right away, they'd make no money because they were quickly copied.

That is why we have copyright and patent laws (and a specific Constitutional basis for them). They promote the advancement of science and art.

 

[My little Tony]

You should all watch the southpark on downloading. That pretty much sums up my view on it.

 

[YeahBee]

You aren't stealing to survive. You're not stealing to feed your children. You're not stealing to get medicine for your mother or to pay for education for your kids to get them out of the gutter. Talk to me about that stuff and I'll be on the same page as you.

You're talking about stealing luxury, but keep telling yourself it's a right.

you still don't see the difference

Stealing to feed your children, perfectly fine based on moral grounds

but the "stealing" by downloading doesn't have to be justified on any moral grounds. it is not wrong in the first place because it doesn't hurt anybody. And infact creates many positive things which you defenders so easily ignores

it has got nothing to do with rights, entitlements or luxuries, it is simply a different kind of lending, a bonus if you will

should the cost of a movie depend on how many people watch it?

If I buy a PPV and invite my friends it is legal, but if I stream the same event it is illegal, where is the logic in that?

it is like you begrudge people to enjoy something they can't afford to buy because you want the whole world to see "here I am I can buy all this stuff"

 

[thegreenblender]

They wouldn't have those AIDS drugs if they didn't have the incentive to spend billions of dollars developing them. That incentive is provided to them by....charging for drugs.

Also, more people are exposed to culture because of piracy? Piracy reduces the likelihood of the creation of art. In the nineteenth century, authors had to release their books in serially in magazines because if they published a whole book right away, they'd make no money because they were quickly copied.

That is why we have copyright and patent laws (and a specific Constitutional basis for them). They promote the advancement of science and art.

To a point, I agree. But that's why they need to lock it down better or offer alternative buy models. If it's available, people will take it. Whatever your view about that morally. And things are WIDELY available online. The digital age isn't going away, so they've pretty much got two options: come up with some incredible new digital security, or offer it in a way that is so convenient or better than the pirated content that people will gladly pay for it.

 

[Jdonw]

I've been poor fucking plenty, so don't try to out e-poor me. You talk about stealing, but stealing isn't the subject here. Obviously you wish it was, because you are looking for any reason to put yourself on a high moral pedestal. I download a "copy", no one is deprived. They weren't going to get my money anyways. Long before I knew how to get instructionals online, I never paid for one. Why? I didn't have the money. Still don't. But if I can have it for free, and no one is harmed, why shouldn't I have it? It's not about entitlement. A title (en-title-ment) implies ownership. No owns a fucking copy, and I'm not taking a goddman thing from anyone.

Its intellectual property. You aren't stealing something physical, you are stealing somebody's intellect that they have put into instructional format. At least that is one side of the argument.

 

[YeahBee]

They wouldn't have those AIDS drugs if they didn't have the incentive to spend billions of dollars developing them. That incentive is provided to them by....charging for drugs.

Also, more people are exposed to culture because of piracy? Piracy reduces the likelihood of the creation of art. In the nineteenth century, authors had to release their books in serially in magazines because if they published a whole book right away, they'd make no money because they were quickly copied.

That is why we have copyright and patent laws (and a specific Constitutional basis for them). They promote the advancement of science and art.

Not all incentives are financial in nature. USSR came up with some pretty nifty innovations

necessity is the mother of all inventions

Great art is created out of a passion not future financial gain, if Britney Spears wasn't making money in music she'd be in porn. if Dylan couldn't make big money he would be on a streetcorner somewhere playing the same music he does now for pennies

Itunes is probably great it is the accessibility and user friendly system that people pay for IMO, other music services use advertisment to pay for the listening privileges. I am a spotify user, great small monthy fee, all the music I can get to my cellphone, and it is streamed! I could never have as much music on the memory card, and it is easy to create playlists and whatnot

 

[kinkykid]

It would seem that in today's age of digital piracy, the illegal downloads would be accounted for in the price charged. If WMA sold the Ryan Hall sets for $20 each, they sell 2,000 copies for $40,000. Or they charge an average price of $80 (to account for 50% off and ebay) and sell 500 copies for $40,000. Obviously, WMA makes more with the higher price since they pay for 1500 less dvds and cases. In the first example, far more grapplers buy the set instead of downloading it illegally because most of us can afford $20. But since the second makes more money, they pick the second option.

Obviously, these numbers may be completely inaccurate but the point still stands that in a free market, the price point should come after some reasonable calculations. What does this mean? Personally, I think it means that the people that can afford it are keeping the prices high. The poor can't afford to buy the DVDs so they either download or abstain. The only way to bring the prices down is to not pay those rates so that the companies rethink their business strategy. If the poor were to pick up extra jobs so that they could pay the prices charged, what basis would there be for lowering the price?

 

[Oliver Geddes]

So just to clarify...if they put it out online at...an affordable rate. Say $20 a set...

And you had the $20 in your pocket, although you might need it down the line. And it WASN'T available online right now...

Would you buy it?

Or would you wait a month for it to come online to be torrented if you KNEW it would take a month to be available (I know, it's often quicker)?

Just curious. @_@

Take care,

Oli

P.S. ...also, have to ask...who puts these things up in the first place? How many people buy a DVD, then the first thing they do is rip it and put it online? Just seems strange to me. Not saying whether it's right or wrong, but does anyone know people out there who do that? What's their reasoning?