Downloading Instructional Torrents

[rnaviaux]

Very likely if a person is on the net they can make it go right to purchase a dvd set or two. Maybe they have to penny pinch for a while.

DLing dvds is stealing. I'm sure there are lots of rationalizations for it. (Rationalize = To devise self-satisfying but incorrect reasons for one's behavior.)

The book "The Cult of the Amatuer" has some interesting things to say about this subject and its affect on our culture.

Xande posted on mma.tv and asked that people don't dl but actually purchase his new instructional set. I'll be buying it when I have the cash for it. (And no I didn't record songs from the radio onto tape back in the day. I just listened to the radio. Still do.)

Personally I think buying a dvd has far greater value than privates or seminars but that's my take on that.

I know people that do this and I express my displeasure with it. I lent an instructional to a friend to watch and he returned it and said "Thanks." When I asked him what he thought he told me that he hadn't watched them yet. I said keep it until you do. He said its okay as I ripped them. I was pissed as I felt I had inadvertently become an accessory to something I did not want to occur. I don't allow that to happen anymore.

Its pretty simple moral quandry to resolve by the way. Just ask yourself how you would like to be treated. If you put a product out there that was putting food on your table and maybe even feeding your kids would you be happy about people stealing it? What if it was years of hard work that had been condensed to a few hours of time? Would you want someone to take that from you with a fair exchange? If your honest with yourself the answer can't help but be "No."

I work in software. If our product doesn't sell because its being illegally used there is a distinct possibility that I could lose my job. This can have far reaching consequences for my family.

I wouldn't want it done to me so I don't do it to someone else. End of story. If I can't afford it then maybe I have to wait or not even get it. I sure would like a Ducati but I guess I just have to wait.

I love Stephen King novels but I don't read pdf versions off of the net (If there is even such a thing.) I buy it when it comes out in hardback or a wait a while and buy it in softback. If I'm really poor I wait till a friend lends me their copy. I don't steal it.

 

[thegreenblender]

Hate to burst yours but you could simply NOT download them. Or you could just admit "I don't want to pay"

And never say you can't pay for it. You don't want to be able to pay for it badly enough. You cannot convince me there is no way you can't squeeze 100 bucks out of a budget somewhere or make some extra scratch somehow. If you can't then you shouldn't be spending money on training.

It's never someone can't do something, it's someone doesn't want to work hard enough to earn it/pay for it.

I have the balls to admit, hey I didn't want to pay for a couple of DVDs I did download. Now you try it and cut the bull shot because I don't buy it.

Motherfucker, I have a $25 budget for myself this christmas. I have my internet, I have food. I train in a basement with friends. Go fuck yourself.

 

[EddieLovesYou]

I am paying for a wedding, honeymoon, truck, and house. Where is this money to burn?

I download some instructionals but I don't lie to myself and try to justify it. Just call it what it is and say "hey I don't want to pay for it"

Don't try to make assumptions on what I do or don't have money for to try and rationalize why you won't pay for something.

You obviously have extra money if you can afford to pay for those things. Fucking ignorant rich people that can't understand how some people don't have as much money as they do...

 

[thegreenblender]

You obviously have extra money if you can afford to pay for those things. Fucking ignorant rich people that can't understand how some people don't have as much money as they do...

For fucking real. No new couple ever starts off without a house, honeymoon, or new truck, right? No, this guy has no extra cash. You gotta be kidding me.

 

[NateTx4112]

Motherfucker, I have a $25 budget for myself this christmas. I have my internet, I have food. I train in a basement with friends. Go fuck yourself.

Don't lash out at me for putting myself thru college while workig full time and up to 2-3 jobs at a time. If you want it bad enough you will work hard enough to find the money or second job for discretionary spending.

How much does your cell phone/Internet cost? Gone to eat the last month? Drank a beer? Drove somewhere you could have walked? Didn't pick up an extra shift or try to find sidework when you had free time?

You can lash out for your lack of funds but look at yourself and truly ask yourself "did I do EVERYTHING within my power to reach my goal ( in this case financial) ?"

Answer honestly because there is no reason to lie to yourself. And I don't expect or really want you to reply. Just ask yourself.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

Motherfucker, I have a $25 budget for myself this christmas. I have my internet, I have food. I train in a basement with friends. Go fuck yourself.

I can understand your getting defensive about the suggestion that you can afford more than you perhaps can, but I don't see how your lack of funds has anything to do with whether or not you are entitled to videos that someone else took the time and effort to create for a living.

 

[YeahBee]

Very likely if a person is on the net they can make it go right to purchase a dvd set or two. Maybe they have to penny pinch for a while.

DLing dvds is stealing. I'm sure there are lots of rationalizations for it. (Rationalize = To devise self-satisfying but incorrect reasons for one's behavior.)

The book "The Cult of the Amatuer" has some interesting things to say about this subject and its affect on our culture.

Xande posted on mma.tv and asked that people don't dl but actually purchase his new instructional set. I'll be buying it when I have the cash for it. (And no I didn't record songs from the radio onto tape back in the day. I just listened to the radio. Still do.)

Personally I think buying a dvd has far greater value than privates or seminars but that's my take on that.

I know people that do this and I express my displeasure with it. I lent an instructional to a friend to watch and he returned it and said "Thanks." When I asked him what he thought he told me that he hadn't watched them yet. I said keep it until you do. He said its okay as I ripped them. I was pissed as I felt I had inadvertently become an accessory to something I did not want to occur. I don't allow that to happen anymore.

Its pretty simple moral quandry to resolve by the way. Just ask yourself how you would like to be treated. If you put a product out there that was putting food on your table and maybe even feeding your kids would you be happy about people stealing it? What if it was years of hard work that had been condensed to a few hours of time? Would you want someone to take that from you with a fair exchange? If your honest with yourself the answer can't help but be "No."

I work in software. If our product doesn't sell because its being illegally used there is a distinct possibility that I could lose my job. This can have far reaching consequences for my family.

I wouldn't want it done to me so I don't do it to someone else. End of story. If I can't afford it then maybe I have to wait or not even get it. I sure would like a Ducati but I guess I just have to wait.

I love Stephen King novels but I don't read pdf versions off of the net (If there is even such a thing.) I buy it when it comes out in hardback or a wait a while and buy it in softback. If I'm really poor I wait till a friend lends me their copy. I don't steal it.

Man someone is marching to the beat of the man

the movie industry is putting out blockbuster after blockbuster, videogames are breaking record after record in sales

You cannot use a physical product like a ducati. it is not the same

I don't have to rationalize itself for my own morals. I break the law in many other ways

You yourself admitted to lending something, should that be illegal to?

what about bringing your DVD to class and showing people? same result people get to watch it without paying

you don't have an argumentative leg to stand on

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

You obviously have extra money if you can afford to pay for those things. Fucking ignorant rich people that can't understand how some people don't have as much money as they do...

What does my having more money than you have anything to do with the question of whether or not downloading something for free is appropriate?

We're not talking about your right to food, shelter, medical care or education (all of which I'd be happy to have my tax dollars make sure you get).

We're talking about a luxury. Why do you feel entitled to that?

 

[YeahBee]

I can understand your getting defensive about the suggestion that you can afford more than you perhaps can, but I don't see how your lack of funds has anything to do with whether or not you are entitled to videos that someone else took the time and effort to create for a living.

It is a victimless "crime"

people who download don't to it instead of buying. they do it in ontop of what they can purchase

 

[thegreenblender]

Don't lash out at me for putting myself thru college while workig full time and up to 2-3 jobs at a time. If you want it bad enough you will work hard enough to find the money or second job for discretionary spending.

How much does your cell phone/Internet cost? Gone to eat the last month? Drank a beer? Drove somewhere you could have walked? Didn't pick up an extra shift or try to find sidework when you had free time?

You can lash out for your lack of funds but look at yourself and truly ask yourself "did I do EVERYTHING within my power to reach my goal ( in this case financial) ?"

Answer honestly because there is no reason to lie to yourself. And I don't expect or really want you to reply. Just ask yourself.

I'm not going to give you an account of my life. I have no money to spend, take it or leave it.

I think the real issue here is that you obviously can afford these things, won't pay for them, and want to believe everybody is just as much of a pennypinching douchebag as you.

 

[NateTx4112]

You obviously have extra money if you can afford to pay for those things. Fucking ignorant rich people that can't understand how some people don't have as much money as they do...

Read my post above. I live within my means and busted my ass to get where I am.

I cut some expenses to be able to afford things. I passed on eating out this week for a friends bday in order to hit a Bruno bastos seminar Saturday.

It's about what you are willing to sacrifice to achieve what you want. I am NOT rich, I bought my own house before we were engaged, I bought a used truck, and am paying for the wedding/honeymoon not being helped by the families.

If that is rich and privledged I guess I am. But really instead of slinging insults at someone who has achieved something, look in at yourself and see why you may have not.

Fuck all this self entitlted bull shit I see today. You want something bad enough go earn it. But don't sit there and list reasons why you can't if you haven't done everything you can to achieve it.

Sorry for my rant and I won't post in this thread again because it's getting off topic, but just call a spade a spade. People don't want to pay for it if they don't have too.

 

[thegreenblender]

What does my having more money than you have anything to do with the question of whether or not downloading something for free is appropriate?

We're not talking about your right to food, shelter, medical care or education (all of which I'd be happy to have my tax dollars make sure you get).

We're talking about a luxury. Why do you feel entitled to that?

Why do I feel entitled to that? Because I believe I have the right to be happy. Because viewing instructionals makes me happy, and if I can view them without harming anybody, what is you or anybody else to say about it?

I don't have the money to pay for them, and if I came into an equivalent amount of money, there would be much more important things to put it towards. No, because I don't have money, it doesn't mean that I will only read books by candlelight or play shadowpuppets in the corner. If I can improve the quality of my life without spending, seeing as I don't have it to spend, I will.

Here is a question for you:

What am I accomplishing by not downloading, seeing as I never have, and for the foreseeable future, will never spend money on an instructional? (this being the case before and after I learned how to access them online) How does NOT downloading in this scenario put money in anyone's pocket?

Or is it just a tax I should pay for being poor, that I shouldn't enjoy things even when they are freely available and do no harm in the taking?

 

[rnaviaux]

Man someone is marching to the beat of the man

the movie industry is putting out blockbuster after blockbuster, videogames are breaking record after record in sales

You cannot use a physical product like a ducati. it is not the same

I don't have to rationalize itself for my own morals. I break the law in many other ways

You yourself admitted to lending something, should that be illegal to?

what about bringing your DVD to class and showing people? same result people get to watch it without paying

you don't have an argumentative leg to stand on

I figured someone was going to mention the lending thing. Last time I checked it wasn't illegal to lend a book, video, cd. (I could be wrong as I'm no lawyer but thats my current understanding.) It is however illegal to copy a book, movie or song. Well at least that's what those notices at the beginning of a book or movie say.

Software is another thing entirely. There are all kinds of different agreements one makes to use a piece of software. I play it safe and just don't let anyone copy my stuff that I purchased. Saves me all that time from reading those user agreements all the time.

So I guess if one activity is illegal (like dling copies of instructionals from torrents) and one isn't like lending or giving a friend a book I just might have a leg to stand on. Sure hate pissing in the wind but there it is.

What does sales of video games or movies have to do with stealing? Is this another rationalization or just a comment. And who is this "man" that I am marching to the beat of?

 

[thegreenblender]

Read my post above. I live within my means and busted my ass to get where I am.

I cut some expenses to be able to afford things. I passed on eating out this week for a friends bday in order to hit a Bruno bastos seminar Saturday.

It's about what you are willing to sacrifice to achieve what you want. I am NOT rich, I bought my own house before we were engaged, I bought a used truck, and am paying for the wedding/honeymoon not being helped by the families.

If that is rich and privledged I guess I am. But really instead of slinging insults at someone who has achieved something, look in at yourself and see why you may have not.

Fuck all this self entitlted bull shit I see today. You want something bad enough go earn it. But don't sit there and list reasons why you can't if you haven't done everything you can to achieve it.

Sorry for my rant and I won't post in this thread again because it's getting off topic, but just call a spade a spade. People don't want to pay for it if they don't have too.

Look, yes, you are "rich" by my standards. I am working myself to be better off. You don't know my life and I couldn't possibly explain it to you over the internet. No one can say if your road to success is easier or harder than mine. But obviously you've "succeeded" more than I at this point, if money makes one a success. I'm doing my best, and I feel absolutely fine about enjoying things that others pay for, if no one is deprived in the enjoying. I'm not going to sit in a corner and twiddle my fingers for entertainment/relaxation while I wait to have more money to spend on it. If you followed some strict moral code where you would not enjoy yourself by anything but perfectly legal and free means until you were successful enough to pay for them, that's excellent. Great self-control. I'm not that way. But I'm also literally not able to afford these things. I hate to break it to you. It seems that you are, and we are different.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

It is a victimless "crime"

people who download don't to it instead of buying. they do it in ontop of what they can purchase

It is not a victimless crime. If it is not made criminal, then no one would pay ever.

We've seen with music, specifically MP3's, before it was illegal to download them, many people did. When it became illegal, suddenly people were willing to pay a little on Itunes or whatever.

There are at least some people that are dissuaded by the illegality of the act and later buy....not all, but you don't pass laws for the effect they have on everyone.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

Why do I feel entitled to that? Because I believe I have the right to be happy. Because viewing instructionals makes me happy, and if I can view them without harming anybody, what is you or anybody else to say about it?

Fine. Do whatever you want to make yourself happy. I'm not going to argue with you about it.

You are not entitled, you feel entitled and there is a difference.

 

[YeahBee]

I figured someone was going to mention the lending thing. Last time I checked it wasn't illegal to lend a book, video, cd. (I could be wrong as I'm no lawyer but thats my current understanding.) It is however illegal to copy a book, movie or song. Well at least that's what those notices at the beginning of a book or movie say.

Software is another thing entirely. There are all kinds of different agreements one makes to use a piece of software. I play it safe and just don't let anyone copy my stuff that I purchased. Saves me all that time from reading those user agreements all the time.

So I guess if one activity is illegal (like dling copies of instructionals from torrents) and one isn't like lending or giving a friend a book I just might have a leg to stand on. Sure hate pissing in the wind but there it is.

What does sales of video games or movies have to do with stealing? Is this another rationalization or just a comment. And who is this "man" that I am marching to the beat of?

Lending and downloading has got the same result

the examples of the movie industry and videogames is that downloading has got a negligible effect on the industry

we have music artists who put out free stuff, or pay what you want. but the bottom line is that material available free creates a demand for artists so that people come and see them IRL.The record industry tried to pull this stunt way back when with tape recorders, it wasn't true then and isn't true now


Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. it was illegal for women to vote was that right? alot of silly stuff has been illegal

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. it was illegal for women to vote was that right? alot of silly stuff has been illegal

Holy crap.

I have a lot of respect for you, but you did not really just compare those two things?

Maybe you should stick to talking about grappling.....maybe we all should.

 

[lechien]

I really do not see the logic behind: "I am poor so stealing stuff to make me happy is ok"!.

I wish all the BJJ instructors only release books so you guys cannot download them illegaly on torent.

oh well, unless someone is willing to bust his brand new book and scan it for illegal download.

 

[Oliver Geddes]

On a related note, and getting away from the one-on-one aspect of this thread...

I still don't understand why DVDs are so expensive? I mean...yeah, there's quite a few hours of footage, but when I put out my instructional DVD (planning ahead, here. ^_^), I just really can't see myself charging more than $50 for it. At best. Maybe $30-50. Because...well, yeah. I mean, I'm not a world class guy or anything, but there's all kinds of guys putting out DVDs In the $100+ price range, and that just seems to be reinforcing the problem here. It's also not helped by the fact it's commonly sold in 'Sets', which means three or four DVDs at a time (which makes sense, I will admit), but also means you have to drop a huge amount of cash in one go, which most people are unlikely to do. Tell someone it's $20 for an hour and a half of good material they might be able to use, great. Tell someone it's $80 for six hours, they're unlikely to be quite so enthusiastic, and more likely to pirate.

Just my opinion. Why ARE instructionals so expensive, and (if the theme of this thread is correct), if they are and the instructors are getting a relatively small cut of things...where is the rest of the money going?

I will note that, having filmed short clips myself, it takes a HELL of a long time to film one clip. I mean, it took me three or four hours to put out 10 minutes of footage to a decent standard with multiple angles, so a six hour tape set would be an issue. But still. So that's definitely a factor. But...well, anyone want to weigh in with some experience and facts and figures, or just anecdotes? Would be interested.

Take care,

Oli