Downloading Instructional Torrents

[platfox]

You could just send him $20... My guess is he's probably making around that for each set he sells. Of course, if no one buys his DVDs because they pirate them, World Martial Arts has no reason to publish another set.

That would be funny if Ryan Hall just started getting anonymous $20 bills in the mail.

 

[bagelgod]

It's wrong. You can rationalize it however you want,

I wonder if you'd stand outside a library yelling at people for watching movies/listening to CD's/using computer programs/reading books for free? Are you the douchehorse who stands in Barnes and Nobles yelling at people who read books without paying for them first? Have you ever listened to a song on youtube? Ever taped a song from the radio? Ever had a friend tape you a television show while you went out of town?

but it's still theft, and you are stealing from a community that you purport to care about.

That's stupid, and also you're stupid. Theft is the criminal act in which property belonging to another is taken without that person's consent with intent to permanently deprive.

Downloading these videos simply makes a copy. I'm not breaking into your home to steal your "How to sound like a pretentious ass" dvd collection if I download it; I'm making a copy. That's why piracy is copyright infringement, not theft.

 

[ozyabbas]

If they were less expensive and can be downloaded like you do so for DLC on playstation network then I would definitely be more willing to buy the instructionals.

I remember an acquaintance from Brazil (not Brazilian) who could access some mma/bjj torrent site that has just about everything on there including instructionals, tournament footage etc. Unfortunately you only get a certain amount of invites and he refused to give me an invite.

 

[stile0]

That's stupid, and also you're stupid. Theft is the criminal act in which property belonging to another is taken without that person's consent with intent to permanently deprive.

Downloading these videos simply makes a copy. I'm not breaking into your home to steal your "How to sound like a pretentious ass" dvd collection if I download it; I'm making a copy. That's why piracy is copyright infringement, not theft.

thanks for brushing me up for my criminal law final.

 

[jamiltron]

I wonder if you'd stand outside a library yelling at people for watching movies/listening to CD's/using computer programs/reading books for free? Are you the douchehorse who stands in Barnes and Nobles yelling at people who read books without paying for them first? Have you ever listened to a song on youtube? Ever taped a song from the radio? Ever had a friend tape you a television show while you went out of town?



That's stupid, and also you're stupid. Theft is the criminal act in which property belonging to another is taken without that person's consent with intent to permanently deprive.

Downloading these videos simply makes a copy. I'm not breaking into your home to steal your "How to sound like a pretentious ass" dvd collection if I download it; I'm making a copy. That's why piracy is copyright infringement, not theft.

Dude, I'm not even going to jump in and comment about the ethics regarding piracy, but come on...

It's fine to discuss personal ethics and how you feel about a situation, but when you start throwing around comparisons between licensing use and piracy, ad hominems, you're going a bit too far.

 

[YeahBee]

It's wrong. You can rationalize it however you want, but it's still theft, and you are stealing from a community that you purport to care about.

it is not theft

it is not like I steal a DVD of him so he can't sell it

as bagelgod said, it helps the sport grow anyway

the more a DVD instructional or BJJ/MMA event is spread the more people would want to have a private or attend a seminar or pay to watch them compete

just like music

 

[bagelgod]

Dude, I'm not even going to jump in and comment about the ethics regarding piracy, but I just wanted to come out from lurking and say that this is one of the most ridiculous posts I have seen all year, anywhere.

Please don't post information regarding the legality of subjects if you clearly have a very limited understanding of the law. It's fine to discuss personal ethics and how you feel about a situation, but when you start throwing around comparisons between licensing use and piracy, ad hominems, and a clearly myopic view of theft, you're going a bit too far.

I never contended that the issues I pointed out in the first paragraph legal or illegal; more of a policy argument than anything, or to illustrate what black and white thinking on what people should or should not have access to leads to.

Also, what is your actual point? If you're going to chastise me for using ad hominems on an internet forum, then allow me to welcome you to the internet. It's obviously your first time here.

A very limited understanding of the law? Please show me the legal inaccuracies in my post. I want you to point out any claims I made that are false, misleading, inaccurate, or in any other way reflect a limited understanding of the law. Piracy is not theft, piracy is copyright infringment. Infringing Acts are copying, making a derivative work, distributing, performing, or displaying works publicly. What is being described in this thread fits under copying, arguably derivative (editing out chapter menus, etc.) and distributing unless you turn off seeding in your torrent client.

Are you arguing otherwise?

Also, yea, I used the plain jane definition of theft. I don't feel like digging up case law, footnotes, or any other bullshit to outline the difference between theft and copyright infringment in this situation. If you have case law showing other wise, please share.

Nice edit, champ.

 

[redaxe]

I have a membership to a private tracker that has basically every MMA/BJJ related torrent ever available for download. But the way those private torrent sites work is you have to maintain a certain share ratio. So if I just went and downloaded everything and didn't upload as much myself, I would get banned.

Anyway, I still buy the BJJ DVDs even though I could (illegally) download them for free. I bought myself two Ryan Hall DVDs and a Jeff Glover DVD recently. I think it's worth my money to buy them, and I want them to make more of them, so it's worth supporting the athletes who make them and the companies who produce and publish them.

I do not, however, adhere to the same policy for pron.

 

[jamiltron]

Nice edit, champ.

I edited my comment because I feel like I came off a bit too much like a jerk. So sorry about that.

You're right - from a completely black-and-white policy issue copyright infringement is not theft, but it is nowhere near the same as going to a library or hearing a song on the radio, and attacking someone for possibly having done so when their position is that dvd piracy is theft, which most certainly may be argued on an ethical standpoint, is ridiculous.

Someone isn't "stupid" for feeling that leeching off of the community is a form of theft. You can argue semantics all you want, but you are still commit an illegal action that has very potential negative connotations for those involved with dvd. I'm all for examining ramifications of copyright, alternative methods of consuming a product, and finding new ways to get information to the public, but don't fall back onto attacking someone and holding onto a very singular definition of a term to justify your piracy.

 

[bagelgod]

going to a library

I used this as an example of a clearly LEGAL paralell to what's happening, or what I feel is the heart of this particular issue: gaining information without paying for it. I doubt anyone downloads this stuff to hear Ryan Hall's excellent speaking voice or look at his huge feet.

or hearing a song on the radio,

I actually said TAPING a song on the radio, if you go back and read. You need a license to create a sound recording, and if you don't have one, BAM, infringement. This is an example of an ILLEGAL activity, but one most people have done and consider harmless. Again, another comparative example to the issue at hand.

and attacking someone for possibly having done so

Thinking it's ok to steal one thing while condeming others for stealing something else is hypocritical, and hypocrites deserve to be ousted for what they are. Not everyone who does something illegal is a bad guy. Some sources say (*SHOCK*) even you have done something illegal before!

when their position is that dvd piracy is theft was which most certainly may be argued on an ethical standpoint, is ridiculous.

This doesn't make sense. You can't argue piracy is theft from an ethical standpoint. The DEFINITION of piracy, as used for 200-400 years, is copyright infringment. There's no ethics here. You can say it SEEMS like theft, you can LIKEN it to theft, ANALOGIZE, if you will. But it isn't. It's copyright infringment.

Someone isn't "stupid" for feeling that leeching off of the community is a form of theft.

He didn't say "form of" theft, "maybe" theft, "might perhaps be" theft. He said it certainly is theft. Actually what he said was that it was "wrong", that we are certainly committing theft, and that we are stealing. We aren't. We're infringing on a copyright. Allegedly.

Also you're pretty quick to judge, considering you called my post "The most ridiculous post you've read all year", with my "myopic" view of theft, and my "narrow" understanding of the law. Pot, Kettle. (P.S. Still waiting to see where my understanding of the law is incorrect?)

You can argue semantics all you want

I just want people to understand what piracy actually is before they introduce their closeminded viewpoints into the discussion. How anyone can meaningfully contribute to a conversation without knowing what it means or its underlying mechanism is beyond me.

I'm all for examining ramifications of copyright, alternative methods of consuming a product, and finding new ways to get information to the public, but don't fall back onto attacking someone and holding onto a very singular definition of a term to justify your piracy.

Please show me where I used the fact that "Piracy = Copyright Infringement" to justify piracy itself. I'll argue, compare, and contrast copyright infringement laws all day long to illustrate how silly it can get, and why I disagree with not only the laws but the remedies, BUT I CAN'T DO THAT IF EVERYONE KEEPS CALLING IT THEFT NOW CAN I.

 

[Cachorrino]

World Martial Arts: MMA DVDs & Mixed Martial Arts Products has 50% off these days so go there and BUY Ryan Hall and Co. and but some bread in their mouths!

 

[BJJ in Chicago]

id personally like to know how much the guys who make them make off of each set that sells. i became especially curious after i saw that abmar's new set was pretty expensive.

 

[Auspex]

And, if they are receiving shit from each DVD, why are they distributing these the way they are?

Ryan Hall is popular enough in the BJJ world that he doesn't need a distribution deal.

Have these guys not been paying attention to the music world in the last 8 years?

Sell that bish from your website, get some grass roots advertising (on places like sherdog) and watch the word spread like wild fire. BAAAM!

Even if he doesn't sell as many, he makes (more than likely) considerably more per DVD/digital download he sells. Plus, he can probably cut down the price a ton

 

[KILL KILL]

I just downloaded Alvaro Romano's Ginastica Natural DVD.

 

[Mat Nemesis**]

I used this as an example of a clearly LEGAL paralell to what's happening, or what I feel is the heart of this particular issue: gaining information without paying for it. I doubt anyone downloads this stuff to hear Ryan Hall's excellent speaking voice or look at his huge feet.



I actually said TAPING a song on the radio, if you go back and read. You need a license to create a sound recording, and if you don't have one, BAM, infringement. This is an example of an ILLEGAL activity, but one most people have done and consider harmless. Again, another comparative example to the issue at hand.



Thinking it's ok to steal one thing while condeming others for stealing something else is hypocritical, and hypocrites deserve to be ousted for what they are. Not everyone who does something illegal is a bad guy. Some sources say (*SHOCK*) even you have done something illegal before!



This doesn't make sense. You can't argue piracy is theft from an ethical standpoint. The DEFINITION of piracy, as used for 200-400 years, is copyright infringment. There's no ethics here. You can say it SEEMS like theft, you can LIKEN it to theft, ANALOGIZE, if you will. But it isn't. It's copyright infringment.



He didn't say "form of" theft, "maybe" theft, "might perhaps be" theft. He said it certainly is theft. Actually what he said was that it was "wrong", that we are certainly committing theft, and that we are stealing. We aren't. We're infringing on a copyright. Allegedly.

Also you're pretty quick to judge, considering you called my post "The most ridiculous post you've read all year", with my "myopic" view of theft, and my "narrow" understanding of the law. Pot, Kettle. (P.S. Still waiting to see where my understanding of the law is incorrect?)



I just want people to understand what piracy actually is before they introduce their closeminded viewpoints into the discussion. How anyone can meaningfully contribute to a conversation without knowing what it means or its underlying mechanism is beyond me.



Please show me where I used the fact that "Piracy = Copyright Infringement" to justify piracy itself. I'll argue, compare, and contrast copyright infringement laws all day long to illustrate how silly it can get, and why I disagree with not only the laws but the remedies, BUT I CAN'T DO THAT IF EVERYONE KEEPS CALLING IT THEFT NOW CAN I.

were you bitching about someone else being pretentious?

 

[XL721]

As long as you're not making copies and trying to profit from it, no problem at all IMHO.

its stealing plain and simple

 

[Jinzumkei]

Look dude, do what you want (cause a pirate is free).

Personally I like to frame it that, by learning this material pro bono (I eat ramen noodles 7 days a week, there's no way in shit I'm able/ever going to pay 200$ for two dvd's), I can become a better grappler, thus making everyone around me have to deal with a better grappler. If my teammates are better, then maybe they'll up the stakes in competition, making everyone who competes with them better. Now, take into account the other competitions those people go to, the people they train with...and bam! I just made the entire grappling world a better place.

I mean, if you had to choose between not getting super expensive DVD's and sitting in the dark masturbating, or bettering the entire world of grappling, which would you choose?

Maybe I'm just TOO selfless...

Wait couldn't you actually be making the grappling world worse. What if you steal the instructionals and then the guy making it can't eat and it forced to get a different job and stops making the videos. Then since people see that you can't make money making videos because people like you steal them and they also stop making instructionals. Then you become a shitty grappler, and your team in turn becomes shittier, and then the degrades the level of competition, then the whole grappling world is a worse off place!!!

Fuck, I can feel my grappling powers ALREADY declining!! stop the pirating!! before I start taking aikido!!!

 

[nefti]

you don't talk about torrents on this forum. THis thread should be deleted and the TS banned

 

[mtruitt76]

Also, what is your actual point? If you're going to chastise me for using ad hominems on an internet forum, then allow me to welcome you to the internet. It's obviously your first time here.

That is just quality stuff right there.

 

[gotobread]

World Martial Arts: MMA DVDs & Mixed Martial Arts Products has 50% off these days so go there and BUY Ryan Hall and Co. and but some bread in their mouths!

They themselves sell their sets cheaper on eBay.