Does Screaming when in a submission count as a verbal tap? It’s not consistent-

[Garnet_StrongerThanYou]

In the Paulo Filho fight. Chael screamed in an armbar and the ref stopped the fight.



In the Tony Ferguson vs. Beneil Dariush fight Tony Screamed in pain during the heel hook and didn’t tap.

Referee didn’t stop it.

I won’t post the picture or gif but honourable mention goes to Big Nog.

He was caught and had his arm
Broken and didn’t scream at all.

Kept his mouth shut and it was broken

 

[Slatersan]

It usually is in bjj comps not sure about mma. I’d imagine any legit org’s ref would stop a fight if someone is actually screaming while their limbs are breaking.

 

[SherdogWasNeverMyFriend]

In the Paulo Filho fight. Chael screamed in an armbar and the ref stopped the fight.

View attachment 859856

In the Tony Ferguson vs. Beneil Dariush fight Tony Screamed in pain during the heel hook and didn’t tap.

Referee didn’t stop it.

I won’t post the picture or gif but honourable mention goes to Big Nog.

He was caught and had his arm
Broken and didn’t scream at all.

Kept his mouth shut and it was broken

I don't think Tony screamed at all...

 

[GrantB13]

Any time I've seen it it has been counted as a submission. Did Tony ever scream out though?

 

[Stormtrooper85]

Counts for a KO in Aspen Ladd's fights.

 

[Memeojima]

Counts for a KO in Aspen Ladd's fights.

Stfu

 

[Mondo Freaks]

Depends if the ref stops it as a technical submission.

 

[anakq]

it does

 

[beastman]

Any time I've seen it it has been counted as a submission. Did Tony ever scream out though?

He definitely grimaced, but I don't recall Tony screaming. Chael definitely screamed out.

Me, I'll yell "tap, tap, tap" if I can't get an arm free. No shame.

 

[sdpdude9]

I believe yelling out in pain is considered a verbal submission according to the rules. I recall Tony crying out in pain at least a little but it’s at the discretion of the referee if he thought it amounted to a verbal submission. Ref would have been within the rules to call it there I believe, though it might not have been the best call.

 

[fzoid4454]

Sonnen screamed in pain. Feguson grimaced, did not scream. So I'm not seeing the inconsistency that you claim.

A scream is and should be a verbal submission. When you're tangled up in a pretzel with someone and might not have a hand free to tap, or tap where the referee can see it, or they catch you enough that you can't control your scream of pain, then it's a safety issue. That's always been the way it is for submission grappling - an involuntary scream = verbal submission.

 

[dagfin]

A submission can either be verbal or by tapping, I remember specifically one fight a person screamed but didn't tap and the ref stopped it. The commentators mentioned the rule about verbal submissions.

 

[Kforcer]

Chael screamed when Babalu heelhooked him. They didn't count that as a submission. I think it should be a submission though.

 

[immyaxl]

In the Paulo Filho fight. Chael screamed in an armbar and the ref stopped the fight.

View attachment 859856

In the Tony Ferguson vs. Beneil Dariush fight Tony Screamed in pain during the heel hook and didn’t tap.

Referee didn’t stop it.

I won’t post the picture or gif but honourable mention goes to Big Nog.

He was caught and had his arm
Broken and didn’t scream at all.

Kept his mouth shut and it was broken

Yes

 

[immyaxl]

I can remember Joe Warren screaming while in a submission and the ref stopping it in Bellator which would be under the unified rules. I can also remember the first fight between Barnett and Big Nog when Nog screamed while in a sub and the ref didn't stop it. I'm not sure what Prides rules on that were at the time. Barnett said in an interview later on that Nog screamed so it should have counted as a verbal submission according to him.

 

[capnlarge]

Tony was obviously in pain but I don't recall him screaming. The referee could still call a technical submission if he thought the damage was bad enough. Like Tim Sylvia vs Frank Mir

 

[Repusman]

It is up to the ref if it should be stopped. Seems to me if a guy screams out they generally stop it. There are many examples.

 

[Aurelian]

Didn't Woodley scream out in pain during the Colby fight and the fight ended?

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Depends if the ref stops it as a technical submission.

Which really is the answer, the ref doesnt need a tap to stop a match if he thinks someone is being injured by a sub.

 

[Street Samurai]

I believe yelling out in pain is considered a verbal submission according to the rules. I recall Tony crying out in pain at least a little but it’s at the discretion of the referee if he thought it amounted to a verbal submission. Ref would have been within the rules to call it there I believe, though it might not have been the best call.

If i was the ref, I would have stopped it for sure. I wonder if Oliveira stopped going full strength when he realised Tony wouldn't tap. Must be weird mentally to deliberately break a fighter arm