Does it feel like the era of invincible champs is over?

[Hellowhosthat]

I see what youre saying maybe this could apply to the training in 90s but by the 2000s guys were already cross training with specialists in multiple disciplines. There wasn't much mystery then either.

I think Buchecha's career will be an interesting metric. He's a much higher level BJJ player than Nogueira was, so we'll see if he can breeze through everyone easily with the grappling or if he ends up in a Rodolfo Vs Fluffy Hernandez situation.

 

[HHJ]

Yeah, I've rolled with people who were pretty average MMA fighters by bigger league standards and they're fucking awesome.

My MMA coach was called to face Robert Whittaker on short notice in australia,(in 2012 - 2013 i think) but he would have to cut to 185 and the fight was in 3 weeks. He opted not to take it because he was the sole coach running the school and all the other shit attached to it. Robert wasnt known to the mma world back then,but looking back on it now,he would have beaten my coach,and my coach is terrifying,and would absolutley annihlate any normal dude in the street. It showed me how fuckin deep this shit goes.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

My MMA coach was called to face Robert Whittaker on short notice in australia,(in 2012 - 2013 i think) but he would have to cut to 185 and the fight was in 3 weeks. He opted not to take it because he was the sole coach running the school and all the other shit attached to it. Robert wasnt known to the mma world back then,but looking back on it now,he would have beaten my coach,and my coach is terrifying,and would absolutley annihlate any normal dude in the street. It showed me how fuckin deep this shit goes.

Yep, it's seeing someone you think of as incredible look as bad compared to someone else as you do compared to them that shows you imo.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

I think Buchecha's career will be an interesting metric. He's a much higher level BJJ player than Nogueira was, so we'll see if he can breeze through everyone easily with the grappling or if he ends up in a Rodolfo Vs Fluffy Hernandez situation.

The BJJ guys today have superior BJJ skills but they're also not nearly as gritty. They're pampered and living much easier lives than the Brazilian savages of the old guard who trained at BTT and Chute Boxe. Guys from those days weren't on Instagram doing sponsor shout outs for CBD companies and showing off their abs.

They were on the mats training and in the ring sparring hard af. The toughness of the guys from the past is insanely underrated these days. Back then it was very hard for a BJJ practitioner to build wealth without fighting MMA. Today a guy like Gordon Ryan is a millionaire without ever stepping foot in a cage.

Thats cool and all but it tells me that elite sport BJJ guys won't achieve the same success in MMA that the savages of the past achieved. There are too many other, safer methods of making money.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

The BJJ guys today have superior BJJ skills but they're also not nearly as gritty. They're pampered and living much easier lives than the Brazilian savages of the old guard who trained at BTT and Chute Boxe. Guys from those days weren't on Instagram doing sponsor shout outs for CBD companies and showing their abs off.

They were on the mats training and in the ring sparring hard af. The toughness of the guys from the past is insanely underrated these days. Back then it was very hard for a BJJ practitioner to build wealth without fighting MMA. Today a guy like Gordon Ryan is a millionaire without ever stepping foot in a cage.

Thats cool and all but it tells me that elite sport BJJ guys won't achieve the same success in MMA that the savages of the past achieved. There are too many other, safer methods of making money.

We'll see, Buchecha looks great so far, I think he'll do fine. Tonon is doing well also.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

We'll see, Buchecha looks great so far, I think he'll do fine. Tonon is doing well also.

Big hespect to Buch and Tonon but you know where I'm coming from brather.

 

[HHJ]

The BJJ guys today have superior BJJ skills but they're also not nearly as gritty. They're pampered and living much easier lives than the Brazilian savages of the old guard who trained at BTT and Chute Boxe. Guys from those days weren't on Instagram doing sponsor shout outs for CBD companies and showing their abs off.

They were on the mats training and in the ring sparring hard af. The toughness of the guys from the past is insanely underrated these days. Back then it was very hard for a BJJ practitioner to build wealth without fighting MMA. Today a guy like Gordon Ryan is a millionaire without ever stepping foot in a cage.

Thats cool and all but it tells me that elite sport BJJ guys won't achieve the same success in MMA that the savages of the past achieved. There are too many other, safer methods of making money.

I dont think that is completley fair. Not all BJJ today guys are the soft kind of people that Ralph Gracie would want to kill. They arent all trained in this way,and some of them are hard men who are gonna develop their own way regardless. There are just alot more options and avenues to train it now than before,but the tough guys,the savages,the dudes who literally live in the gym? those guys are never going away.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Big hespect to Buch and Tonon but you know where I'm coming from brather.

To some extent, I don't think it applies to everyone. Werdum excelled at BJJ when he was building his academy in Spain rolling with white belts.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

I dont think that is completley fair. Not all BJJ today guys are the soft kind of people that Ralph Gracie would want to kill. They arent all trained in this way,and some of them are hard men who are gonna develop their own way regardless. There are just alot more options and avenues to train it now than before,but the tough guys,the savages,the dudes who literally live in the gym? those guys are never going away.

Back in the days BJJ guys didn't have many ways outside of MMA to build wealth. They pretty much had to do MMA. Today's elite sport BJJ guys can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from sponsors and seminars without having to get punched in the face. Gordon Ryan is literally a millionaire. If he was around in the old era he would have to do MMA and that still wouldn't guarantee that he would become a millionaire. If you don't see how that kind of a landscape breeds tougher FIGHTERS then I really don't know what else to say.

 

[Blayt7hh]

You combined like 3 eras of fighters into one.

No there isnt as many dominant champs right now as there were over the last 15 years combined

How do you not see this?

Btw Bj defended his belt 3 times. He was not a dominant long reigning champ. Jesus Izzy is 20-1 and has defendes his belt more times than Penn did his entire career.

Fucking nostalgia

Lol. I think I get what the TS meant but his thoughts were a mess.

there definitely was a time where most of the champs seemed untouchable. This isn’t nostalgia speaking big fan perception at the time. I think a big part of it is that the overall skill level at the top has gotten a lot more even and we don’t see a huge disparity between the champ and the 5th ranked guy like we once did. It’s not that champs are weaker, but that challengers are comparatively better than they once were.

 

[HHJ]

Back in the days BJJ guys didn't have many ways outside of MMA to build wealth. They pretty much had to do MMA. Today's elite sport BJJ guys can make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year from sponsors and seminars without having to get punched in the face. Gordon Ryan is literally a millionaire. If he was around in the old era he would have to do MMA and that still wouldn't guarantee that he would become a millionaire. If you don't see how that kind of a landscape breeds tougher FIGHTERS then I really don't know what else to say.

What I am telling you is that tough men are always going to be around no matter what the landscape is. For every Gordon Ryan,you will have your your Charles Oliveras who came from absolutley nothing,and become a world champion. You will have your Jose Aldo's who took capoieira to be able to defend himself in street fights,and got discovered by a BJJ trainer,and moved out of his town with only his clothes to train to be a fighter. Toughness never ends. Some people are born with that shit in them,and no fancy pants jiu jitsu schools is gonna change that. Some people have a violence in them that needs to get out. BJJ isnt going to be enough. So there is never a shortage of tough men.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

What I am telling you is that tough men are always going to be around no matter what the landscape is. For every Gordon Ryan,you will have your your Charles Oliveras who came from absolutley nothing,and become a world champion. You will have your Jose Aldo's who took capoieira to be able to defend himself in street fights,and got discovered by a BJJ trainer,and moved out of his town with only his clothes to train to be a fighter. Toughness never ends. Some people are born with that shit in them,and no fancy pants jiu jitsu schools is gonna change that. Some people have a violence in them that needs to get out. BJJ isnt going to be enough. So there is never a shortage of tough men.

I didnt say that there is no toughness today I said that an era with less hunger will breed less toughness. There is unquestionably less hunger today.

 

[HHJ]

Lol. I think I get what the TS meant but his thoughts were a mess.

there definitely was a time where most of the champs seemed untouchable. This isn’t nostalgia speaking big fan perception at the time. I think a big part of it is that the overall skill level at the top has gotten a lot more even and we don’t see a huge disparity between the champ and the 5th ranked guy like we once did. It’s not that champs are weaker, but that challengers are comparatively better than they once were.

I mean,times change,sometimes its one way and sometimes it another. Its not that serious or complex. It certainly doesnt mean the end of anything.

 

[Young Calf Kick]

Well in this case I wouldnt say entitled,although you could link this attitude to that in some cases...but really its this cynical attitude that almost any result seems to threaten the future of the sport,fighter,style,or length of dominance going forward. This even goes to the teams. If a team is dominant for 10 yrs straight,and then have a run of bad luck,the fans are like "wow this team sucks now" and act as if they were never good,and were just lucky with the fighters they had,and that the sport has passed them by? REALLY? I didnt know fight teams must always win forever,fighters and coaches dont get old.

In this case I meant entitled as, whenever in some cases figher X loses a fight after years of dominance and/or goes on a losing streak, he'll get shit on by the same "fan". The fan in question being entitled to the fighter always performing to his expectations, and getting dropped for not living up to often impossible standards.

 

[HHJ]

I didnt say that there is no toughness today I said that an era with less hunger will breed less toughness. There is unquestionably less hunger today.

How would you know there is less hunger? for every jiu jitsu playboy makin money,just opens another door in MMA for a fuckin roughneck dude like Douglas Silva de Andrade who is hungrier than a motherfucker to step in and take his place in line.

 

[HHJ]

impossible standards.

I wholeheartedly agree here.

 

[Jewish Lightning]

How would you know there is less hunger? for every jiu jitsu playboy makin money,just opens another door for a fuckin roughneck dude like Douglas Silva de Andrade who is hungrier than a motherfucker to step in and take his place in line.

In one era BJJ practitioners had to fight MMA to mayyyybe become rich one day.

In another era there are countless examples of BJJ guys who make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year without fighting, some of which who are millionaires.

You tell me which landscape has less hunger.

 

[Fioretti]

Silva, Jones, and Fedor are on a different level. Usman is closer to them than GSP is. GSP started his championship career 1-2.

Those of us who were around back then to witness that shit as it was happening are super lucky. Very similar to watching Jordan and The Bulls crush it in the 90s.

Usman is the closest right now, and is the only current champ with the potential to be included with the big 3.

 

[HHJ]

In one era BJJ practitioners had to fight MMA to mayyyybe become rich one day.

In another era there are countless examples of BJJ guys who make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year without fighting, some of which who are millionaires.

You tell me which landscape has less hunger.

It doesnt matter,at all. Whoever doesnt go to MMA,we dont need them. See ya,dont give two shits. They dont have the desire to throw down. The ones who do,despite oppurtunities to make easier money elsewhere? Thats who I want to see. Warriors.

 

[HHJ]

we dont need oppurtunity to make stronger fighters. Those will always be there. The ones who would do it,even if they didnt have to worry about money.