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Opinion Does Christianity really teach that some people will spend eternity in hell?

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I didn't mean to ramp up the anger in our discussion. I just was not sure if you were arguing against your own projections onto God or if you were arguing against Christianities. With your posts and another members I think you are indeed arguing against Christianities beliefs about God.

I am arguing against Christianity's God. I do so because since I was like 12 years old, I have been asking questions like this, to unsatisfactory answers. Often times, the adults got angry, or insinuated that I was disrespectful, for flummoxing them.
 
That's your own assumption not based on anything.



Knowing the future the and setting the future are two different things.

What can be asserted without evidence can be thrown away without evidence. You Christians pulled the out of time argument out of your asses, and when people scoff, you pretend as if the burden of proof is on everyone else.

Are you suggesting God knows the future, but has no control over it? I thought God was omnipotent.

God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omni present.

These are mutually incompatible states of being, and the bible, and christians along with the bible, assert he is all three.

If he knows the future, and does not control it, he is not exactly omnipotent. If he knows the future and is in control of it, he is impotent to change the future, lest he violate his own omniscience.
 
If God's foreknowledge was introduced after his creation, that would presuppose that he was not omniscient at one point in time, and we would not then call him God. It would mean we were created by something that was not God (God as defined in the Bible).

I am not really clear on what you are asking in regards to whether or not Christians believe what I'm arguing against...if you are referring to God having foreknowledge, or being omniscient and omnipotent, I do believe that this is a founding tenet of the Bible.

Personally, I think Christians would be better served to commit to the philosophical argument that attempting to assign anthropomorphic motives to God is a fallacy, as he is (supposedly) not human. This argument I can somewhat understand, despite the fact that the logic still does not hold up.

Can you explain further your last paragraph and what you mean by that? It may be impossible to do so as the Bible does SEEM to assign human characteristics to God. I am not personally convinced that these were always meant to be taken as gospel though. ;)

Also this whole discussion has gotten me really curious so I am going to look to into the counterarguments and bring them to your attention later on.
 
I am arguing against Christianity's God. I do so because since I was like 12 years old, I have been asking questions like this, to unsatisfactory answers. Often times, the adults got angry, or insinuated that I was disrespectful, for flummoxing them.


I am a Christian but nothing about what you are saying is bothersome. I am very interested in the topic now and am going to start looking into it more. Thanks. Feel free to ask me anything and count on respectful dialogue. Ill do the same.
 
Perhaps you don't understand what causality is.

There is no choice if the result is predestined.

Our choices are not predestined tho. That's you guys injecting this into situation when it's not there.
 
You do set the future when you create something that operates within a strict framework.


I was thinking about how artists suspend logic and reason often enough and enter into a sort of intuitive blissfulness of creativity so that they themselves dont know how the work is going to turn out. Later the artist can look at the creation and understand what it means why it is the way it is.

Suppose God creates in the same way by intentionally suspending infinite knowledge, not losing it, just suspending it until after the moment of creation of a being?
 
Our choices are not predestined tho. That's you guys injecting this into situation when it's not there.

It doesn't matter what the choices are or what the particular ones are made if the result is already known. Essentially a fixed fight except it's life which is perverse and unfair. Seems perfectly apropos for Yahweh though.
 
Can you explain further your last paragraph and what you mean by that? It may be impossible to do so as the Bible does SEEM to assign human characteristics to God. I am not personally convinced that these were always meant to be taken as gospel though. ;)

Also this whole discussion has gotten me really curious so I am going to look to into the counterarguments and bring them to your attention later on.

You may be correct and that would create a logical inconsistency with the Bible.

However, there is also the fact that the God of the Bible is in fact an amalgamation of earlier Mesopotamian gods, who, while not necessarily being described as humans, have many human fallacies. In this case, these earlier gods make more sense logically. For instance, in the original Sumerian telling of the flood, Enlil (God of the OT), is frustrated that humans, who were created to be his slaves, start to become unruly so he decides to wipe everything off the face of the planet with a flood. Enlil's brother Enki, feeling compassionate for mankind, takes pity, and instructs his follower, Ziusudra (biblical Noah) to build an ark and thus saves humanity.

Similarly, the Garden of Eden (Sumerian E.DIN) story makes more sense when you look at the original telling. Enlil created man as a slave, which he intended to keep as a secret from man (man = A.DAMU in Sumerian). Enki, who was Enlil's brother, was kind of like man's caretaker, sent down from the heaven's to watch over them. So Enlil was like the CEO sitting up in his boardroom, while Enki was the supervisor, working in the trenches alongside mankind.

Again, Enki felt sorry for man, and attempted to give A.DAMU *knowledge* of his true purpose - that being a slave species. This is represented with the "tree of knowledge" and the serpent (serpent actually represents knowledge in Mesopotamian culture). This is why Enlil punished mankind "for eternity" - because he didn't want them to know they were created for mundane purposes, and this one piece of knowledge was deemed as forever off limits. Enlil then goes crazy and wipes everyone out with floods, scatters people with different languages, commits genocide, demands blind unquestioning obedience, etc etc etc.
 
Your posts make little to no sense to me.


You may be correct and that would create a logical inconsistency with the Bible.

However, there is also the fact that the God of the Bible is in fact an amalgamation of earlier Mesopotamian gods, who, while not necessarily being described as humans, have many human fallacies. In this case, these earlier gods make more sense logically. For instance, in the original Sumerian telling of the flood, Enlil (God of the OT), is frustrated that humans, who were created to be his slaves, start to become unruly so he decides to wipe everything off the face of the planet with a flood. Enlil's brother Enki, feeling compassionate for mankind, takes pity, and instructs his follower, Ziusudra (biblical Noah) to build an ark and thus saves humanity.

Similarly, the Garden of Eden (Sumerian E.DIN) story makes more sense when you look at the original telling. Enlil created man as a slave, which he intended to keep as a secret from man (man = A.DAMU in Sumerian). Enki, who was Enlil's brother, was kind of like man's caretaker, sent down from the heaven's to watch over them. So Enlil was like the CEO sitting up in his boardroom, while Enki was the supervisor, working in the trenches alongside mankind.

Again, Enki felt sorry for man, and attempted to give A.DAMU *knowledge* of his true purpose - that being a slave species. This is represented with the "tree of knowledge" and the serpent (serpent actually represents knowledge in Mesopotamian culture). This is why Enlil punished mankind "for eternity" - because he didn't want them to know they were created for mundane purposes, and this one piece of knowledge was deemed as forever off limits. Enlil then goes crazy and wipes everyone out with floods, scatters people with different languages, commits genocide, demands blind unquestioning obedience, etc etc etc.



What passages are most often used to support the arguments that God knows all things and controls all things? If you dont remember its not a problem as I will look up that kind of thing tonight. I ask because there are many passages that are taken literally by some Christians and not literally by others...
 
What passages are most often used to support the arguments that God knows all things and controls all things? If you dont remember its not problem as I will look up that kind of thing tonight. I ask because there are many passages that are taken literally by some Christians and not literally by others...

I'm not interested in bible study.

Watch this
 
I'm not interested in bible study.

Watch this



We are talking about the bible..... and the God of the Bible.... If your not interested in discussing that why are you here? But I meant this post anyway.

I was thinking about how artists suspend logic and reason often enough and enter into a sort of intuitive blissfulness of creativity so that they themselves dont know how the work is going to turn out. Later the artist can look at the creation and understand what it means why it is the way it is.

Suppose God creates in the same way by intentionally suspending infinite knowledge, not losing it, just suspending it until after the moment of creation of a being?
 
What passages are most often used to support the arguments that God knows all things and controls all things? If you dont remember its not problem as I will look up that kind of thing tonight. I ask because there are many passages that are taken literally by some Christians and not literally by others...

I don't honestly know the specific passages. I think the actual definition of "God" itself would be sufficient, but maybe I'm wrong.
 
I don't honestly know the specific passages. I think the actual definition of "God" itself would be sufficient, but maybe I'm wrong.


God itself does not necessitate omnipotence or omniscience unless those traits are assigned as they are in Christianity. Ill look it up. I am now very curious.
 
I was thinking about how artists suspend logic and reason often enough and enter into a sort of intuitive blissfulness of creativity so that they themselves dont know how the work is going to turn out. Later the artist can look at the creation and understand what it means why it is the way it is.

Suppose God creates in the same way by intentionally suspending infinite knowledge, not losing it, just suspending it until after the moment of creation of a being?

I suppose this argument might work on the surface, however for this equivalency to work, we would have to assume that an artist creates a bronze sculpture, let's say, and then punishes it for all eternity for not being able to speak. The artist has defined the capabilities of his creation.
 
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