Does BOR make sense as an exercise?

[foobar**]

In BORs you're supposed to keep your torso horizontal --> the lower back & hams are under isometric contraction throughout the set. It is possible that the lower back or hams get fatigued before the lats & other muscles involved in pulling the bar to the chest, and that results in a premature end of the exercise. It seems more logical to have your chest supported and focus your energy exclusively on the pull. Now if you want to work lower back & hams, there are other exercises (RDL, SLDL, GM). What do you think?

 

[Cap'n]

Erm...it's a core exercise as well. If your lower back and hamstrings fatigue before your upper back does...maybe you're using too much weight?

I can honestly say I've never had my posterior chain muscles fail before my arms and lats have while doing bent over rows.

 

[foobar**]

Erm...it's a core exercise as well. If your lower back and hamstrings fatigue before your upper back does...maybe you're using too much weight?

I can honestly say I've never had my posterior chain muscles fail before my arms and lats have while doing bent over rows.

I'm not exactly sure which part of my body gives out first but I'm sure I could do more reps if I had chest support---more than the 4 x 105 kg I can manage currently.

Perhaps sometimes isolation exercises are warranted?

 

[Klotz]

There's a machine in my gym that's basically an inclined bench with a bar hinged to the base, and you lie on it and do bent over rows. That's a crappy description so here's a picture:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/LVInclineRow.html

 

[deadlyshaolin]

In BORs you're supposed to keep your torso horizontal --> the lower back & hams are under isometric contraction throughout the set.

Exactly.

 

[foobar**]

There's a machine in my gym that's basically an inclined bench with a bar hinged to the base, and you lie on it and do bent over rows. That's a crappy description so here's a picture:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/LVInclineRow.html

We have that too. So is it a good idea to use that?

 

[Klotz]

Well it's not as good as the real thing, but it'll make your upper back stronger.

 

[Urban]

We have that too. So is it a good idea to use that?

IMO this is like straps for deadlifting. In the deadlift, your grip is part of the lift, and should be developed as such without using straps as a crutch. However, if you have pussy hands and you cannot hold as much weight as your PC can lift, then go ahead and use straps AFTER you have thoroughly fatigued your grip (striving to improve your grip strength from session to session).

This is the same principle here: your posterior chain is part of this lift and should be trained as such, if however you are glass backed jibbering pussy, then by all means, use the chest supported row AFTER you have exhausted your back with bent over rows. Its assistance, not substitution. The BOR is superior and should be respected as such.

Short of a muscular imbalance creating a potential for injury, I see no reason to neglect a strong muscle group because a weaker muscle group can't keep up. Train your weaknesses first, then work the other shit.

"If you have to eat a whole plate full of frogs, eat the biggest one first" - Dan John.

 

[woogie12]

My back/shoulders/arms always give out first, I feel like that'd be weird otherwise. Do you deadlift often?

 

[woogie12]

Oh sick, orange belt.

 

[foobar**]

IMO this is like straps for deadlifting. In the deadlift, your grip is part of the lift, and should be developed as such without using straps as a crutch. However, if you have pussy hands and you cannot hold as much weight as your PC can lift, then go ahead and use straps AFTER you have thoroughly fatigued your grip (striving to improve your grip strength from session to session).

This is the same principle here: your posterior chain is part of this lift and should be trained as such, if however you are glass backed jibbering pussy, then by all means, use the chest supported row AFTER you have exhausted your back with bent over rows. Its assistance, not substitution. The BOR is superior and should be respected as such.

Short of a muscular imbalance creating a potential for injury, I see no reason to neglect a strong muscle group because a weaker muscle group can't keep up. Train your weaknesses first, then work the other shit.

"If you have to eat a whole plate full of frogs, eat the biggest one first" - Dan John.

Makes sense, thanks. I usually do BORs as the last exercise of the day, sometimes after squats, other times after deads.

 

[niagareven]

I don't feel comfortable doing them at all and I don't feel like I get anything out of them. I feel dumbbell rows help me much more, but that's just me.

 

[Standard]

BOR is a great exercises, there really should not be a reason to go to a supported machine IMO. I've never had my lower back or legs give out before either my grip or muscles involved in the pull its self. Where do you pull the weight too? is your back locked in an arched position and knees slightly bent?

 

[stylesbjj**]

IMO this is like straps for deadlifting. In the deadlift, your grip is part of the lift, and should be developed as such without using straps as a crutch. However, if you have pussy hands and you cannot hold as much weight as your PC can lift, then go ahead and use straps AFTER you have thoroughly fatigued your grip (striving to improve your grip strength from session to session).

This is the same principle here: your posterior chain is part of this lift and should be trained as such, if however you are glass backed jibbering pussy, then by all means, use the chest supported row AFTER you have exhausted your back with bent over rows. Its assistance, not substitution. The BOR is superior and should be respected as such.

Short of a muscular imbalance creating a potential for injury, I see no reason to neglect a strong muscle group because a weaker muscle group can't keep up. Train your weaknesses first, then work the other shit.

"If you have to eat a whole plate full of frogs, eat the biggest one first" - Dan John.

Gold

 

[niagareven]

I can name like 5 extremely strong guys off the top of my head who do chest supported rows, or dumbbell rows in place of barbell rows.

Everyone is different. One exercise may be good for someone where another exercise would be better for someone else.

 

[ninjaseal]

Weird, when i do BOR strictly its my lats that go and at that time none of my muscles come remotely close to fatigue.

AS for the exercise itself, I don't find it to be terribly useful. The only thing I find it helps me with is benching when my sticking point is on the chest. Other than that I have seen very little improvement on any other lift from BORs

 

[juanlawnmower]

I can name like 5 extremely strong guys off the top of my head who do chest supported rows, or dumbbell rows in place of barbell rows.

Everyone is different. One exercise may be good for someone where another exercise would be better for someone else.

Give me those names, and I can give you the names of 5 guys who probably have better genetics than the majority of S&P.

 

[Regalius]

I find them stressful on my low back a bit as well, and b/c i do them on the same days as DL's i've started to switch them with DB rows. I don't like the different forms etc. i see from everyone. It's one exercise i'll continue to do but not every week.

 

[That Dude]

I'm not exactly sure which part of my body gives out first but I'm sure I could do more reps if I had chest support---more than the 4 x 105 kg I can manage currently.

105kg = roughly 230lbs correct? You're rowing 200+ at 90degrees?

There's a machine in my gym that's basically an inclined bench with a bar hinged to the base, and you lie on it and do bent over rows. That's a crappy description so here's a picture:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/LVInclineRow.html

That is called T-Bar rows where I'm from.

 

[Lard-ass]

Due to punishing my posterior chain with RDL, backextension and Zerchersquats, I do Bor with narrow V-grip (with regular barbell) instead of regular Bor. Easier on the lowerback and heaver on the upperback.