Do you disqualify Jon Jones from the GOAT talk?

[MDoza]

popping for PED’s isn’t a big deal for me in the GOAT race.

The fact that you lose a fight and have a suspension is punishment enough.

 

[orca]

imagine a full grown man with a fully grown brain believing gsp who look like a white gorilla is natty
also imagine all the full grown men who believes fedor is natty
fedor is using peds at the moment
why tf would a full grown man think he doesnt use in his fighting days

fun fact
fedor went on a losing streak in a drug testing org
gsp quited when USADA came

brahh you dont need to have an iq like einstein to figure this out

i live in a third world country but its freakin easy to figure sht like this
man its an insult to people who live in a great country full of opportunities
lmao

 

[2004 account]

The answers show who are the just and who have been corrupted

 

[krelianx]

Unfortunately, yes.

 

[krelianx]

I'm a two list guy. Pre usada and post.

It's not really fair to say Jon is guilty and gsp isnt they fought in different eras of drug testing. We don't know if prime Fedor passes a usada test

GSP willingly submitted himself to VADA which follows USADA guidelines even though Hendricks refused to do any enhanced testing, and he also was clean upon his return against Bisping. The moment USADA came around Jones started pissing hot. His first fight under USADA was Cormier and then with OSP, and he pissed hot.

 

[RockyLockridge]

GSP willingly submitted himself to VADA which follows USADA guidelines even though Hendricks refused to do any enhanced testing, and he also was clean upon his return against Bisping. The moment USADA came around Jones started pissing hot. His first fight under USADA was Cormier and then with OSP, and he pissed hot.

GSP only fought under usada once. I'm not accusing GSP of roiding but I always here sherdoggers say "look at that picture of him on his knees asking for a title shot and tell me he's not roided"

It's a common sentiment, Im not going to argue with every person who believes that GSP is also a cheater, but that is the person who is likely to put jones on the top of their list.

 

[Conan the K-9]

Firstly GOAT talk is silly.

Secondly the playing field is never even.
Some hide under the octagon, others in the mountains or get only tested by their local authorities.
We got a lot of athletes coming from “humble” beginnings, but what that really means is different for everyone. One drives Uber to be able to bring food to their family, other has never worked a day in their life, but was robbed their childhood and forced to train hard from a very young age.

We got at least two more champs at the moment who have popped. I don’t care if it’s for AS, other PEDs, blood manipulation, pro hormones, IVs, forgotten TUEs or whatever, you as a professional athlete should know better and your team, management and professionals around you should advise you if you don’t know.

I hate cheating, but more I hate the ridiculous excuses for cheaters.

 

[ryun253]

Morons, didn’t even cut weight or eyepoke people. Like they weren’t even trying.

Imagine a left kick to the nads by CroCop

 

[Kb7]

Firstly GOAT talk is silly.

Secondly the playing field is never even.
Some hide under the octagon, others in the mountains or get only tested by their local authorities.
We got a lot of athletes coming from “humble” beginnings, but what that really means is different for everyone. One drives Uber to be able to bring food to their family, other has never worked a day in their life, but was robbed their childhood and forced to train hard from a very young age.

We got at least two more champs at the moment who have popped. I don’t care if it’s for AS, other PEDs, blood manipulation, pro hormones, IVs, forgotten TUEs or whatever, you as a professional athlete should know better and your team, management and professionals around you should advise you if you don’t know.

I hate cheating, but more I hate the ridiculous excuses for cheaters.

Everyone is on steroids, fighters are just better at masking it.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

I'm a two list guy. Pre usada and post.

It's not really fair to say Jon is guilty and gsp isnt they fought in different eras of drug testing. We don't know if prime Fedor passes a usada test

GSP was in the UFC only 4 years earlier than Jon. When Jon debuted, GSP was just getting back the Serra win.

 

[TheJohnnyWalkerEra]

Khabib is alone at the top

 

[krelianx]

GSP only fought under usada once. I'm not accusing GSP of roiding but I always here sherdoggers say "look at that picture of him on his knees asking for a title shot and tell me he's not roided"

It's a common sentiment, Im not going to argue with every person who believes that GSP is also a cheater, but that is the person who is likely to put jones on the top of their list.

He fought twice under USADA guidelines, the first being willingly when his opponent refused. No champion has ever done that. No fighter for that matter. He also actively campaigned for enhanced testing before it was a thing.

I suppose there are people who will claim he willingly submitted himself to enhanced testing to divert popular opinion from the idea that he ever juiced. And that to me sounds so ridiculous I am happy to not engage with them.

 

[Oddmonster]

Aldo got a tester deported after delaying his test by 2 days and multiple attempts, and then would only submit to testing by the Brazilian Commission his own team called in instead of NSAC who were the ones trying to random test him. The BC then changed his test's shipping date without explanation and then asked for a selfie and autograph.

Aldo also just fought 2 months after coming out of retirement when the 6 month testing requirement remains in effect with the new providers as well. His testing history shows he wasn't being tested before this. He obviously got an exemption.

Rather than exclude him too though as you say people instead seem to be rather selective about it. It's almost like they're just being subjective about whatever helps their favourite fighters and don't have an objective stance on it.

The thing is - Aldo did not pop.

However - The whole situation was so fucking suspicious that I personally count is as an admission that he was juiced to the gills. Besides that whole fuckery, there are some fighters who went from being absolute monsters, to looking nothing like themselves after USADA, and Aldo is one of them - Also Vitor, Reem, Anderson Silva, Pettis, Bigfoot Silva, Johnny Hendricks, and many more.

 

[Conan the K-9]

The thing is - Aldo did not pop.

However - The whole situation was so fucking suspicious that I personally count is as an admission that he was juiced to the gills. Besides that whole fuckery, there are some fighters who went from being absolute monsters, to looking nothing like themselves after USADA, and Aldo is one of them - Also Vitor, Reem, Anderson Silva, Aldo, Pettis, Bigfoot Silva, Johnny Hendricks, and many more.

Some are just better hiding it and you are right, there are plenty of really suspicious situations. The TRT era was a joke.

Like Diaz said they are all on juice, it’s more like just don’t get caught, but if you get caught, just accept it and don’t come up with idiotic excuses no one believes.

 

[Tweak896]

It makes so much sense when you look at everyone's record pre usada and then after. 2015 was the year that changed everything. Ironically most "GOATs" are going to be talked about for their record prior to 2015. Also out of all candidates Jones has best record after USADA.

Then you have to ask yourself why did even the "clean" candidates do so well before the major shift for testing. Either they were clean and PEDs don't matter, or they hid it better and they do.

Jones has the win that he tested positive for stripped from him, and you can judge him for the fights he was clean for.

 

[Oddmonster]

Some are just better hiding it and you are right, there are plenty of really suspicious situations. The TRT era was a joke.

Like Diaz said they are all on juice, it’s more like just don’t get caught, but if you get caught, just accept it and don’t come up with idiotic excuses no one believes.

But Diaz was and is wrong. All that comment showed was that he himself is a doper. All data and research shows that less than half of elite athletes dope. Is some better at hiding it? Sure. But not everyone dopes. Look at Jon Jones as example - he is a multi millionaire with one of the best teams in the world around him, and he pops 2-3 times + pulsing. While some fighters who has no money and no team, never pops.

The "everyone dopes" line of thinking is ultra convenient for the dopers though. I have said this many times before, but it just fits so well - "Thieves think everyone steals". And that is simply not true.

"Data gathered in this way yield an estimation of 14-39% of current adult elite athletes who intentionally used doping."

Prevalence of doping use in elite sports: a review of numbers and methods - PubMed

The prevalence of doping in elite sports is relevant for all those involved in sports, particularly for evaluating anti-doping policy measures. Remarkably, few scientific articles have addressed this subject so far, and the last review dates back to 1997. As a consequence, the true prevalence of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Conan the K-9]

But Diaz was and is wrong. All that comment showed was that he himself is a doper. All data and research shows that less than half of elite athletes dope. Is some better at hiding it? Sure. But not everyone dopes. Look at Jon Jones as example - he is a multi millionaire with one of the best teams in the world around him, and he pops 2-3 times + pulsing. While some fighters who has no money and no team, never pops.

The "everyone dopes" line of thinking is ultra convenient for the dopers though. I have said this many times before, but it just fits so well - "Thieves think everyone steals". And that is simply not true.

"Data gathered in this way yield an estimation of 14-39% of current adult elite athletes who intentionally used doping."

Prevalence of doping use in elite sports: a review of numbers and methods - PubMed

The prevalence of doping in elite sports is relevant for all those involved in sports, particularly for evaluating anti-doping policy measures. Remarkably, few scientific articles have addressed this subject so far, and the last review dates back to 1997. As a consequence, the true prevalence of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Just checking you linked the right study?

There are newer than 10 year old studies and still the conclusion is that current knowledge about doping prevalence in competitive sport relies upon weak and disparate evidence.

It is also relative to the sport, there is obviously less doping in golf than in weightlifting. In most studies all athletes are as one group of athletes. And there are also athletes that are “professionals” and athletes who are professionals and make their living with sports. So this messes up the results too.
There might be some clean athletes on the very top in sports where they make big money, I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s very childish to believe their excuses once they have popped.

 

[Oddmonster]

Just checking you linked the right study?

There are newer than 10 year old studies and still the conclusion is that current knowledge about doping prevalence in competitive sport relies upon weak and disparate evidence.

It is also relative to the sport, there is obviously less doping in golf than in weightlifting. In most studies all athletes are as one group of athletes. And there are also athletes that are “professionals” and athletes who are professionals and make their living with sports. So this messes up the results too.
There might be some clean athletes on the very top in sports where they make big money, I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s very childish to believe their excuses once they have popped.

I just linked one of the studies with the best and widest fundament. A study like that is always hard to make when it is something the subjects would rather not admit to doing. Most studies are in that range though ( some are higher if they look purely at Russian, chinese and american athletes though)

And yeah I agree, it varies from sport to sport. My point is more that the "Everyone dopes" line of thought is erroneous - not everyone dopes. But people say it to excuse the people that do dope - like you will hear that shit from 100% of jon Jones fans.

I agree 100% that if they pop, it is over for them in my book. If you cheat once, you have most likely always been a cheater.

 

[TheTickG]

Because he was caught taking PEDs?

Do you also disqualify Anderson Silva?

or both different scenarios?

Disqualified.

 

[Gamer2k4]

Caught red fuckin handed cheating on multiple occasions and doesnt even have being a good person to fall back on.

This just reads like Jones hating. No one is considered the GOAT for being a "good person," so what does that matter? Would you excuse your other issues with him if he was a nice guy?