Do you consider BJ Penn to be top 10 all time?

Best accomplishments of any fighter who made their career at 155

Ability to win at his peak he's up there with khabib.

I wouldn't be surprised if he beats khabib
 
He's somewhat of a pioneer, had potential but didn't really live up to it. His resume at 155 is thin af
 
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TSK said:
It plays into people’s minds to a massive extent. Had he retired after the Sanchez fight, he would be revered as a Mount Rushmore type fighter.
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It's wild to think about in his case, the very thing that made him such a respected fighter and shaped his career - his fighting spirit and being willing to go up weight, fight anybody, etc. - is the very thing that made him stick around way too long and complicate his legacy
 
CombatCyborg said:
Hindsight. Diego was 10-2 in the UFC, on a 4-fight winstreak, and those 2 being his only losses in his career which were to guys who fought for the WW title.
The guys Penn beat in his LW title reign were on streaks and had good records. The division was what it was.
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Also true. Kenny went 5 rounds vs Aldo. Diego was athletic back then and had good wins. He just totally plummeted too and his victories later were often gifts. But he was a top guy back then.
 
Top 10 lightweight, sure. Just top 10 MMA fighter all time? No, and not even close really, probably bottom end of top 25.
 
DesiredUserName said:
I followed his whole career Jack@$$. Saw almost all of his fights. Who gives a shit about Wikipedia? You are the one obsessed with it. and who give a rat's @$$ what "Many" thought. Are you a lemming following others? I form my own opinions. The greats of his time did not lose as much as he did. He falls short of the others. Deal. with. it. and cry yourself a river j.o.ing to your BJ Penn poster in your mom's basement. ...and "not your issues"? Dude, you have issues with your B.J. obsession. I'm done with you.
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Keep crying sis. BJ is ranked at least fringe top10 by most pundits worlwide. Deal with it. And get another hobby, shertard.
 
My opinion has changed since rising star Sean O'malley and Izzy entered the elite group of UFC champions, known to be MMA's best organization for combatants. There are also many other combatants which could be considered to have better career in more stack division.

Not to mention BKB loss in Hawaii years ago.

Still, he remains my #boy

nkpophappy (1).png
#evolution #newera #pioneerwing
 
Nevermind the record and all the losses, the biggest thing holding him back is the fact that he lost to Frankie Edgar 3x in his prime.
 
Noraaq said:
Doesnt matter whether you think they he won the first fight, Frankie proved hes the better fighter by beating him 2 more times...
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Frankie is a badass so Im cool with it.
Frankie was on his way up and BJ on his way down. Still lost the first fight in most people eyes.
BJ is still widely regarded above Frankie in all-time ranks
 
Bj is the trickiest entrant on the p4p list.

On the one hand, his dominance at lw was significant, but many of his ufc wins weren't against lw killers

On the other hand he did beat the best lws of his time.

He also has the best record of fighting above his natural weight - machida, Hughes, gsp, Fitch, Diaz.

On the other hand he lost many of those fights.

Then there's the issue of his abysmal late career.

All considered I tbink he makes it onto a top 10 goat list for his balls to fight bigger opponents and dominance at lw.
 
pankrat said:
Frankie is a badass so Im cool with it.
Frankie was on his way up and BJ on his way down. Still lost the first fight in most people eyes.
BJ is still widely regarded above Frankie in all-time ranks
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BJ is only regarded above Frankie because of his popularity and hardcore fanbase bias. Frankie capturing the LW belt from BJ himself, and defending, despite being a natural 35/45er, is honestly more impressive than anything BJ has done in the sport. His scalp list has also aged FAR better than BJs.
 
Noraaq said:
BJ is only regarded above Frankie because of his popularity and hardcore fanbase bias. Frankie capturing the LW belt from BJ himself, and defending, despite being a natural 35/45er, is honestly more impressive than anything BJ has done in the sport. His scalp list has also aged FAR better than BJs.
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BJ is also ranked clearly above Frankie by FightMatrix, which uses an algorithm to determine ranks, not "popularity" nor "hardcore fanbase bias"
https://www.fightmatrix.com/all-time-mma-rankings/all-time-absolute/

If their first fight, a very contrversial decision, went for BJ, the gap wuld be even bigger

BJ just has more tittle defenses, more top ranked wins, and is a two division champ.
You can like Frankie more or whatever but its what it is.
 
Noraaq said:
Nevermind the record and all the losses, the biggest thing holding him back is the fact that he lost to Frankie Edgar 3x in his prime.
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jesus I forgot abt the third one…wasn’t that when he came out in a super upright stance? I must’ve subconsciously purged it from my memory
 
pankrat said:
BJ is also ranked clearly above Frankie by FightMatrix, which uses an algorithm to determine ranks, not "popularity" nor "hardcore fanbase bias"
https://www.fightmatrix.com/all-time-mma-rankings/all-time-absolute/

If their first fight, a very contrversial decision, went for BJ, the gap wuld be even bigger

BJ just has more tittle defenses, more top ranked wins, and is a two division champ.
You can like Frankie more or whatever but its what it is.
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BJ might have more "ranked win", but Frankie has beat better, more skilled fighters. That should mean more than artificial rankings by the promotion to sell fights.

BJ 3x, Cub 2x, Faber, Mendes, Yair, Munhoz, young Charles, are flat out better and more relevant fighers than Florian, Joe daddy, Sanchez, young Gomi and Hughes. BJ was big fish in a small pond, never even unified champ after WEC merger.

The idea that BJ should be in a top 10 GOAT list after losing 3x to a better fighter doesnt sit right.
 
Noraaq said:
BJ might have more "ranked win", but Frankie has beat better, more skilled fighters. That should mean more than artificial rankings by the promotion to sell fights.

BJ 3x, Cub 2x, Faber, Mendes, Yair, Munhoz, young Charles, are flat out better and more relevant fighers than Florian, Joe daddy, Sanchez, young Gomi and Hughes. BJ was big fish in a small pond, never even unified champ after WEC merger.

The idea that BJ should be in a top 10 GOAT list after losing 3x to a better fighter doesnt sit right.
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Before, your point was that BJ was overrated by "populariry and hardcore fanbase".
Now that such argument was debunked, you just take "the sport evolves bro" route.....ok

Im not going to get into that kind of debate. Maybe you can make an argument for Rockold, Whittaker or Romero being greater than Anderson Silva based on that "beat better, more skilled fighters"
And of course Woodley > Hughes. Hell, Leon Edwards already > Hughes.

BTW, Gomi was not "young". He was 25 with 5 years of pro experience and basically entering his prime.
 
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